The Road to Life is Norrow?

[ATP]

where does the scripture say visa versa...you are inferring ....scripture does not say that....
where does the scripture say this???...."Our soul, spirit and bodies cannot exist without each other."....you are inferring....

flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ...so since you cannot exist without your flesh I guess there is no inheritance for you in the kingdom of God...
1 Corinthians 15:49-51King James Version (KJV)
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Cor 15:49-51 NIV is about the first resurrection and rapture. If you continued on you would know this. The trumpet will sound....

1 Cor 15:52-54 NIV in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

1 Thess 4:14-17 NIV For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[newbirth]

1 Cor 15:49-51 NIV is about the first resurrection and rapture. If you continued on you would know this. The trumpet will sound....

1 Cor 15:52-54 NIV in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

1 Thess 4:14-17 NIV For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

don't stray...the point you were making was the spirit cannot exist without the body...so according to you the physical body died and so the spirit man died also ...prove that with scripture...
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[mjrhealth]

Uh well, James 2:26 pretty much proves my point lol. The body cannot exist without the spirit and visa versa. Once the breath of life is removed from us, we die Job 34:14-15 NIV, Eccl 12:7 NIV.Gen 2:7 NIV is not saying God formed our spirit from the dust, no. He formed man FIRST, then breathed our spirit into our bodies. Our soul, spirit and bodies cannot exist without each other. They are in unity.

You missed the whole point. The reason why God put our spirits into an earthly body is so that when Jesus died He could condemn sin to the flesh. Our spirits will live well after our bodies are done and turned to dust.Like putting a budgie in a cage. Remove the cage and the budgie flies free.

In All His Love.

 

[ATP]

Without the breath of life there is no life. It's not rocket science people.

 

[mjrhealth]

Take away the breath of life and the body perishes. Our Spirit has no need to breath.

 

[ATP]

Take away the breath of life and the body perishes. Our Spirit has no need to breath.

Spirit is translated breath and wind. Dead people are not praising God in the third heaven as breath and wind right now, haha.

 

[Rie]

Newbirth.

<quote>The lake of fire is not quenched and the torment does not end...death and hell goes in the lake of fire....separated from God
immortality is the same as eternal life...it is only available in Christ....but then we are not talking flesh...which you seem not to have grasped the transition...</quote>

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10.28

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth.

<quote>The lake of fire is not quenched and the torment does not end...death and hell goes in the lake of fire....separated from God
immortality is the same as eternal life...it is only available in Christ....but then we are not talking flesh...which you seem not to have grasped the transition...</quote>

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10.28

so then the soul cannot be killed....but the body and the soul can receive everlasting destruction...
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Rie]

Newbirth,
The body can be killed by man but the soul can't be. Only God can destroy "both" the body and the soul (in hell).

You quoted 2nd Thessalonians 1:9.
The destruction is everlasting.

'The wages of sin is death, the free gift from God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.'

God is just.

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth,
The body can be killed by man but the soul can't be. Only God can destroy "both" the body and the soul (in hell).

You quoted 2nd Thessalonians 1:9.
The destruction is everlasting.

'The wages of sin is death, the free gift from God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.'

God is just.

and death is separation from God...you have not proven this scripture to be wrong...you simply conclude death means the spirit will cease to exist...wages and punish are used interchangeably as with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord would equate death....
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Rie]

Newbirth,

Death is seperation from God. We can be seperated from God and dead in this life though alive, but there's hope.

After the physical death is the resurrection and the judgment. This is where we will go for all eternity - some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death (The wages of sin is death, BUT, the free gift from God is eternal life) . "This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire". "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell".

Unlike being seperated from God and "dead" in this life where this is the hope of salvation; there is (possibly) no hope after the second death, it being an eternal final everlasting punishment (being eternaly dead - the absense of life).

Of course, there is always the hope that everyone willl be saved and that there is another meaning (such as the word "aion" or "time"), but only God knows.

One thing I know is God is just, God is love and God is forgiving.

 

[newbirth]

Newbirth,

Death is seperation from God. We can be seperated from God and dead in this life though alive, but there's hope.

After the physical death is the resurrection and the judgment. This is where we will go for all eternity - some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death (The wages of sin is death, BUT, the free gift from God is eternal life) . "This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire". "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell".

Unlike being seperated from God and "dead" in this life where this is the hope of salvation; there is (possibly) no hope after the second death, it being an eternal final everlasting punishment (being eternaly dead - the absense of life).

Of course, there is always the hope that everyone willl be saved and that there is another meaning (such as the word "aion" or "time"), but only God knows.

One thing I know is God is just, God is love and God is forgiving.

some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death...is the issue...some teach that those who are not in Christ cease to exist and there is no eternal punishment...is this your belief????

 

[ATP]

some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death...is the issue...some teach that those who are not in Christ cease to exist and there is no eternal punishment...is this your belief????

Have you studied the word "olam".

 

[newbirth]

Have you studied the word "olam".

consider what you are purporting.....as diminishing one you diminish the other...consider two beans ...one fertile the other infertile...both are planted.....one grows into a vine and produces seeds to continue in it's generations......the other dies and it is assumed it ceases to exist....but in a world of it's own it decays and is turned in to other compounds and or gasses existing in other complex forms of which most are unaware...

 

[Rie]

some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death...is the issue...some teach that those who are not in Christ cease to exist and there is no eternal punishment...is this your belief????

There may be some punishment. But for eternity the wages of sin is DEATH.

Do you have some other understanding of "everlasting death"?

God will be "all in all". God is Love. If God will be all IN ALL, how does that fit with your understanding? How about 'there will be no more tears, no more mourning, no more pain for the former things will have passed away'?

 

[ATP]

consider what you are purporting.....as diminishing one you diminish the other...consider two beans ...one fertile the other infertile...both are planted.....one grows into a vine and produces seeds to continue in it's generations......the other dies and it is assumed it ceases to exist....but in a world of it's own it decays and is turned in to other compounds and or gasses existing in other complex forms of which most are unaware...

In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means "the direction of the rising sun". We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning "to the right". The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future.

The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time.

 

[newbirth]

In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means "the direction of the rising sun". We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning "to the right". The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future.

The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time.

well I suppose you can reach the horizon...the horizon is a concept to facilitate a mindset to a particular point...a point that can be imagined but never be met in reality....so the word means to reach a point that you cannot actually reach..

 

[ATP]

well I suppose you can reach the horizon...the horizon is a concept to facilitate a mindset to a particular point...a point that can be imagined but never be met in reality....so the word means to reach a point that you cannot actually reach..

Right, this is how the prophets spoke about eternity in the bible.
"It is on going until it ends."
If nonbelievers were immortal in the lake of fire, God would be a liar and contradictory.
There are no contradictions in the Word of God. Either the sky is blue or it isn't.

 

[newbirth]

Right, this is how the prophets spoke about eternity in the bible.
"It is on going until it ends."
If nonbelievers were immortal in the lake of fire, God would be a liar and contradictory.
There are no contradictions in the Word of God. Either the sky is blue or it isn't.

but you are assuming they cease to exist....if everlasting destruction has an end then everlasting life has an end also....
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[ATP]

but you are assuming they cease to exist....if everlasting destruction has an end then everlasting life has an end also....
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Ceasing to exist is the definition of mortality.