the 'sealed scroll' as Esau's corruption : the greatest story you was never told

[forever]

... and if you understand these truths ,
you will immediately recognize the many (Esau-) corrptions in the scroll ,
like the line "My sons against your sons , O Greece" :
ofcourse this was not 'Greece' but 'the Ammon sons' !

.. God says in mány chapters that the 144 will be His army ,
and will slay all the Ammon sons that have imprisoned Jacob (-on earth) for so long :

he says that the Ammon sons will tremble when they will see that my sons
will have understood WHAT I have said in prophets --
and that His army will take revenge upon them for all of their evil :

not in the least that "they have raped many of our female Originals"
as a Ritualistic method to keep their present situation going :
this is explained in the "Bulls of Bashan that lay upon their ivory beds" prophet chapter ,
where the sons of Ammon rape our female Originals to secure their 'paradise'


... you may find this Insane :
but we've found proof also in Egyptian murals about this theme ;
and ask yourself why Esau does not put a stop on all the 'porn' at the internet :
because the males of Jacob sustain the evil goal of the Ammon sons !

either way -
for this , and many other crimes ,
the 144 army will slay the Ammon sons
taking revenge for every evil they have done
------ so says God .

 

[forever]

You're the one who has posted bizarre things such as "Adam never died", "the evil realm placed our souls in this pimped-Ape-body on this prison-planet", "Adam 'counseled Esau to go corrupt the scroll'", "'the two witnesses' in Revelation are "the 144K" as 'the house Ishral and house Judah' in prophets" and "in spite of Genesis 5 - added by Esau - Adam never 'died'". It is up to you to prove it and reveal the sources that you are getting these ideas from so that your claims can be verified. You have not Scripturally backed up your claims, and saying things like "Adam is the subject of Isaiah 14" is clearly nonsense.

To be a Christian you must believe that the Bible has been prepared for us by God, and that it is His word to us. If you don't believe that then your faith is not built on a sound foundation. Christians should not be drawn in to the mire of discussing other religious writings, whether they be Islamic writings, Hindu writings or some pseudo-Christian writings. This is a Bible study forum, so please show us from the Bible why you believe such things. Saying things like "in spite of Genesis 5 - added by Esau - Adam never 'died'" is clearly not true, because Moses wrote Genesis, so Esau, who died before Moses was even born, could not have added to the book of Genesis. And to say that Adam never died is to call God a liar because God said, Genesis 2:17 (TLV):

(17) But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. For when you eat from it, you most assuredly will die!”​

Again, Adam died before the flood, way before Abraham was born and therefore before Esau was born, so Adam could not have "counseled Esau" to do anything. Adam couldn't have lived until after the flood beccause, Genesis 7:23 (WEB):

(23) Every living thing was destroyed that was on the surface of the ground, including man, livestock, creeping things, and birds of the sky. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ship.​

2 Timothy 3:16 (TLV):

(16) All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for restoration, and for training in righteousness,​

We should not rely on any writings which are not part of the Scriptures that are inspired by God.

I'm proud on you that you respond keithr , because to me it means that you care .

... you say "these things are not in scripture" , but what makes you say that ?

what makes you think "that every word was inspired by God -
and nothing could have been corrupted" ... ?


all we have is 'your assumption' -- true ?


if YOU were the enemy of God ,
[and please I'm only being hypothetical]
would you not CHANGE His words , if He said dangerous things about you ...?


how come ,
that christianity has been so incredible Gullible ,
that they never understood that their enemy would go corrupt what God said ?

you may say that "the things I tell you are not in the scroll" :
but then why God talks about "the sealed scroll untill the time of the end"... ?

in fact ,
our Christ opens seals of the corrupted scroll :
why would He do that if there had been no-corruption AT ALL ?

does not the fact THAT He opens the seals
show to you that finally a major misunderstanding has been resolved .... ?

 

[forever]

.... just ago poster makes me sad
because he represents today's christianity ,
not understanding from what they must be 'saved'


.... modern christianity talks about Jesus ,
who saved them from some abstract sin - which they never understood -
from a type fallen body - which they neither understood

 

[forever]

God , on the other hand , is very clear :

He says that not He made this body we have

and that not He made 'this earth'

so that it is immediately clear
from what Christ had to save us

 

[forever]

why God tells that christians will call Christ 'our King'

... please understand that God is very proud of his son ,
and how he volunteered (!) to save the totally imprisoned souls on this far-away earth ;
but He also explains why Jacob in the endtime will physically Die --

he says that "the pastors will preach : "there will be peace !"
which in context means "when Christ returns , He will rescue the Church"
but it will not be so

.. in the heavily corrupted Daniel chapter ,
the "sacrifice as the gift" - in all of prophets - always refers to what Christ did ,
and it says there that this gift will end

when ? - during Revelation

because , by nature , then will start God's Covenant :
which is 'about the restoration of the Eden paradise'

though , through Christ 's covenant ,
many millions of Jacob will still be saved during the Trib ,
as souls who will be saved after physical death ,
the covenant of God will have started :
as completing the promise He made with Abraham
[=our imprisoned soul upon this earth]

 

[forever]

and He says ,
"in the third year - after my sons will understand my words - I will act" ,
meaning 'the great day of IEUE' will start : aka Revelation

....

 

[forever]

He says about christianity :
"they will go to the ends of the world to preach their king [=Christ[" ,
"and they will say : peace !" [=Christ will save us when He comes back on the clouds]
"but behold ! they waited the light yet there is darkness"

why ?

because christianity never understood what God said
never understood that His words were corrupted

and in the times of the end - now -
the real message of what God said "will fall down on the land"
[that isa Jeremiah quote , meaning 'not accepted']

 

[forever]

and you are our only help

because you will understand the entire context by now

why the so-called 'Gog' is nothing else
as the defeated armies ofMystery-Babylon once more trying to invade Heaven :
but they will be slaughtered at her entrance : in the east of the south land
'... which is the real place of 'Armageddon'

defeated by the army presided by Christ

because we understood what the other Reality is all about

 

[keithr]

... you may find this Insane :

Yes, I do find it to be ludicrous nonsense!

and ask yourself why Esau does not put a stop on all the 'porn' at the internet :

That question has never entered my head. Why would it enter any sane person's head? Esau died thousands of years ago, so he couldn't possibly stop anything being placed on the Internet. You do realise that the Internet was only invented a few decades ago, right?!

 

[keithr]

God , on the other hand , is very clear :

He says that not He made this body we have

and that not He made 'this earth'

so that it is immediately clear
from what Christ had to save us

Where in the Bible does God say that. Please give Bible refereneces; don't just claim that something is so without giving Biblical evidence to support your claim.

Your English is confusing. By "not he made" do you mean "he did not make"? If so you are clearly not believing God. Please say where in the Bible it says that. The very first verse of the Bible says:

Gen 1:1 (WEB):

(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​

and God repeats that in other places too, e.g.:

Isaiah 45:12 (WEB):

(12) I have made the earth, and created man on it. I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and I have commanded all their army.​

Exodus 20:11 (WEB):

(11) for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.​

Revelation 10:5-6 (WEB):

(5) The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to the sky,​

(6) and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there will no longer be delay,​

 

[keithr]

... you say "these things are not in scripture" , but what makes you say that ?

Because I have read the whole of the Bible (and the Apocrypha) and I don't remember ever reading any of the things that you are claiming.

what makes you think "that every word was inspired by God -

Because I believe the Bible is the word of God and I believe the Apostle Paul when he wrote "All Scripture is inspired by God" (2Ti 3:16).

and nothing could have been corrupted" ... ?

I didn't claim that. There have been some poor/misleading translations and some corruptions (mainly to the New Testament). That's why we need to carefully study the Bible to make sure that recognise the problem verses and we gain the correct understanding.

all we have is 'your assumption' -- true ?

No! It's not about me! You can't be a Christian unless you believe the Bible is God's word, and have faith in what is written in it.

Hebrews 11:6 (WEB):

(6) Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him.​

Jesus believed the Old Testament Scriptures were the uncorrupted words of God. He often quoted them, saying "It is written", as in Matthew 4:4 (WEB):

(4) But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”​

If you don't trust God to preserve the truth in the Bible then how can you possibly put more trust in non-Biblical writings? That would be foolish.

if YOU were the enemy of God ,
[and please I'm only being hypothetical]
would you not CHANGE His words , if He said dangerous things about you ...?

I trust God more than I trust the ememies of God. Romans 8:38-39 (WEB):

(38) For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,​

(39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

how come, that christianity has been so incredible Gullible , that they never understood that their enemy would go corrupt what God said ?

How come you have gone down the wrong path and believed non-Biblical writings over the word of God in the Bible?

you may say that "the things I tell you are not in the scroll" :
but then why God talks about "the sealed scroll untill the time of the end"... ?

You're still not giving Bible references. God (through an angel) only once says that in Daniel 12:4 (WEB):

(4) But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many will run back and forth, and knowledge will be increased.”​

It is not saying "write things in a book/scroll and hide it away with instruction for it to only be revealed in the time of the end". The angel that was sent to Daniel with God's message, said that the communication is ended, so seal the scroll, so that the prophecy will be recorded and available for all to read, even to the time of the end. When Daniel asked a question the angel confirmed that there was no more to say and implied that the message would be understood at the time of the end - Daniel 12:8-9 (WEB):

(8) I heard, but I didn’t understand. Then I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?”​

(9) He said, “Go your way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.​

Similarly in a previous vision daniel was told, Daniel 8:26 (WEB):

(26) “The vision of the evenings and mornings which has been told is true; but seal up the vision, for it belongs to many days to come.”​

So the prophecy is in the Bible. The angel saying "seal the scroll until the time of the end" does not mean that the prophesy is not in the Bible (and the Bible is not the scroll that's being talked about being sealed!).

in fact ,
our Christ opens seals of the corrupted scroll :
why would He do that if there had been no-corruption AT ALL ?

The seal that Jesus opens up in heaven is not the Bible. That is a scroll that Jesus takes from God's hand and which has seven seals on it. God, sitting on His throne, would not hand to Jesus a corrupted scroll - as if anybody could corrupt it against God's will! It says, Revelation 5 (WEB):

(3) No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it.​

(4) And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open the book, or to look in it.​

So nobody could open and read it, let alone corrupt it. When John gets to see what was in the scroll (in chapters 6 - 8) what he saw was not the Bible Scriptures! It told of the wrath of God which will come upon the earth.

does not the fact THAT He opens the seals
show to you that finally a major misunderstanding has been resolved .... ?

No.

 

[keithr]

.... just ago poster makes me sad
because he represents today's christianity ,
not understanding from what they must be 'saved'

Jesus saves us from the wages of sin, which is death. (Romans 6:23)

.... modern christianity talks about Jesus ,
who saved them from some abstract sin - which they never understood -
from a type fallen body - which they neither understood

It is clear what sin is; God makes it clear in His word. Sin is anything which causes upset, hurt, distress or sadness to another person. Sin is the opposite of love, and love is the opposite of sin. As Paul wrote, Romans 13 (WEB):

(8) Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.​

(9) For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”​

 

[forever]

Where in the Bible does God say that. Please give Bible refereneces; don't just claim that something is so without giving Biblical evidence to support your claim.

Your English is confusing. By "not he made" do you mean "he did not make"? If so you are clearly not believing God. Please say where in the Bible it says that. The very first verse of the Bible says:

Gen 1:1 (WEB):

(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​

and God repeats that in other places too, e.g.:

Isaiah 45:12 (WEB):

(12) I have made the earth, and created man on it. I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and I have commanded all their army.​

Exodus 20:11 (WEB):

(11) for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.​

Revelation 10:5-6 (WEB):

(5) The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to the sky,​

(6) and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there will no longer be delay,​

... you do not realize that in old-Hebrew there is no such term as "earth" .

she uses "land" (-arts) an that can be ANY type of land ,
and usually an addition is given to tell you 'what' land :

all your quotes express therefore "the land of Eden in the other Reality" .


Would God adress "this earh" ,
He uses "the land far away"
or "the fortress"
or "Jerusalem as the land of Judah" (the city as earth)

but them ost important clue is when He says "your ground" - root (-adme) ,
linking to 'adam' (-adm) and always referring to 'Eden'
which is consistently linked to 'the daughter of Tsiun' -- personified eden


the colour of yor post shows tat you are a rather Fanatical type
and I'm sorry to have to conclude that .

 

[keithr]

because christianity never understood what God said
never understood that His words were corrupted

So from where are you reading the uncorrupted words of God?

and in the times of the end - now -
the real message of what God said "will fall down on the land"
[that isa Jeremiah quote , meaning 'not accepted']

That is not a quote. What is the verse reference? The only verse that I can find that comes anywhere near close to "fall down on the earth" is
Jeremiah 51:47 (WEB) which says:

(47) Therefore behold, the days come that I will execute judgment on the engraved images of Babylon; and her whole land will be confounded. All her slain will fall in the middle of her.​

 

[forever]

Jesus saves us from the wages of sin, which is death. (Romans 6:23)


It is clear what sin is; God makes it clear in His word. Sin is anything which cause upset, hurt, distress or sadness to another person. Sin is the opposite of love, and love is the opposite of sin. As Paul wrote, Romans 13 (WEB):

(8) Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.​

(9) For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”​

....but quoting these corrupted Paul lines
do not help to make you understand the real reason of 'sin' :
this freaking ape type body which our soul is imprisoned in

do you understánd that please ?

the point is NOT "that this body did undergo some type Vague change" and became abstractly "sinful" :
this Ape that sweats and shits [-sorry for the graphic expression but it is true]
is the proof that not God made this 'thing' we dwell in !!

ergo : what then do any of your arguments hold ?

you understand this please ?

you are quoting Paul without understanding that his letters have been corrupted :

in the chapter (please look it up cause I don't lie)
he starts talking about 'the Ark' ,
he describes "how it was made of gold and with two cherubu=ims on top" ,
then he [supposedly says-] "but we are not going to talk about that"
wrong : he was going to talk about it's meaning !
(or why make that intro ?)
but Esau did not want you to understand what he was going to say !

Paul - our brother - said
that 'the two cherubim upon the sacred chest represented our Originals --
our original by God created female and male bodies --
and that "the high-priest met them once a year" ,
as our soul that was NOT IN THEM anymore because our soul was upon this earth !!

do you understand now the greater context please ?

...

..

 

[Davy]

this thread will answer many of your questions -

God tells an amazing story in the books of the prophets
of which He says "it will only be understood in the days of the end -- and I will act upón that understanding" ,
and , arguably , one of the largest themes throughout all prophets is "the corrupted scroll" theme :
He tells exactly what and how this happened - and what cónsequences it will have (-for believers) ,
by telling the entire history since Eden , how we left her and how we came to this earth ,
and how His covenant is about "the restoration óf Eden" : it really is a mindblowing story

one disclaimer please :
what Christ has done is absolutely true and is not in doubt : this aspect has nót been corrupted by Esau ;
just so that you know that this is not some type 'gnostic' thread or whatever --
on the contrary : God wanted you to know the larger picture

what He explains is ,

- how the Eden paradise is in 'the other Reality'
- how not He made 'this earth'
- how He neither made 'this body' (He actually calls it 'the horrible idol')
- how 'mt. Tsiun' is his sacred mountain in the other reality
- how that mountain carried the Eden paradise
- how the Revelation-woman is 'the daughter of Tsiun' in prophets : representing Eden
- how the dragon-beast in front of her is 'Mystery-Babylon' , the evil region east of earth
- how Adam never died : but he made a pact with the enemy , working against God ánd us
- how Adam helped to build 'the evil region' Mystery-Babylon'
- how Adam betrayed us , and how our soul was seperated from our by God made gorgeous bodies
- how the evil realm placed our souls in this pimped-Ape-body on this prison-planet
- why Adam 'counseled Esau to go corrupt the scroll' : to avoid being judged by God
because we would never remémber 'Eden' since we would never know whát He wanted us to understand
- why 'the two witnesses' in Revelation are "the 144K" as 'the house Ishral and house Judah' in prophets
- why 'understanding these things makes Christ to open the seals' : namely 'of the corrupted scroll' !
- why 'the people in white holding (palm-) leaves' in Revelation are "our gorgeous bodies"
- why Christ will only take the 144 at His return --- as the ones which can be you and me
- why this group will receive their body , will restore Eden , war M-Babylon , then be sent back to earth to witness to Jacob
- why 'Gog' is not something 'on this earth' but the same evil region , wanting to attack Heaven
- how all of Jacob - said as 1/3d of present humanity - will die during the Trib
- but will all be saved , also restored , and dwell in the prepared Eden paradise : forever
- where the 144K - males and females - will be 'the caretakers' (or: 'guardians') of Eden herself

... you see that these are some themes , right , and actually there are móre :
but to not scare you away these should do for now ;
really - though not easy it is a joy to search (-out) these things in the scroll , confirmed by cross-reading ,
and in the next posts we'll go through a number of them okay

 

[forever]

... therefore , please ,
it has absolutely No Sense slamming (-me) with verses you do not undeerstand ,
untill you will realize
that you are dwelling in a pimped Ape=body --- which is your Sin

 

[forever]

.. and once you understood that this Ape is your real problem ,
you will stop smiting with (corrupted-) verses ,
trying to convince everyone having committed some abstract 'sin'

 

[forever]

instead , God is very clear -- as He always is --
telling you that your real Home is the eden paradise in the other Reality ,

that you left her abandoned ,
and that you came to this earth as your prison-planet

so that Christ had to save you from forgetting all about Eden
by first restoring you to God

doing this so that our souls would reconquer eden

this is the entire message of prophets


... you can throw all the (corrupted-) verses you want :
but this is the truth .

 

[keithr]

....but quoting these corrupted Paul lines
do not help to make you understand the real reason of 'sin' :
this freaking ape type body which our soul is imprisoned in

do you understánd that please ?

If you just state that every verse of Scripture that I quote is corrupted and shouldn't be believed, then it is pointless continuing the discussion.

the point is NOT "that this body did undergo some type Vague change" and became abstractly "sinful" :
this Ape that sweats and shits [-sorry for the graphic expression but it is true]
is the proof that not God made this 'thing' we dwell in !!

Psalms 139:13-14 (WEB):

(13) For you formed my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother’s womb.​

(14) I will give thanks to you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. My soul knows that very well.​

you are quoting Paul without understanding that his letters have been corrupted :

in the chapter (please look it up cause I don't lie)
he starts talking about 'the Ark' ,

In all of the writings of Paul that I have quoted, none of those chapters starts with Paul talking about the Ark. The only chapter where Paul mentions the Ark is Hebrews 9, which I have not quoted from. So it seems that you are a liar.

he describes "how it was made of gold and with two cherubu=ims on top" ,
then he [supposedly says-] "but we are not going to talk about that"
wrong : he was going to talk about it's meaning !
(or why make that intro ?)

You obviously don't understand what Paul was writing about in Hebrew 9!

but Esau did not want you to understand what he was going to say !

Paul - our brother - said
that 'the two cherubim upon the sacred chest represented our Originals --

No Paul didn't say that! He said, "Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the place of atonement. (We cannot discuss these things in detail now.)" (Hebrews 9:5 ISV). He was simply saying that this letter was not the place to go into detail about the Ark; the details were not relevant to the point he was making.

our original by God created female and male bodies --
and that "the high-priest met them once a year" ,
as our soul that was NOT IN THEM anymore because our soul was upon this earth !!

do you understand now the greater context please ?

No, I do not understand you, and you are clearly lying and don't believe what the Bible says. So as I said above, it's pointless continuing the discussion. I won't respond to this thread any more.