The sequence of events

[Douggg]

This is the sequence of events:

1. the resurrection/rapture event.
2. then the great tribulation - time of the beast
3. then Jesus returns to earth - with His bride
4. then the martyred great tribulation saints will be resurrected.
5. then the 1000 years of Revelation 20 take place.

 

[Davy]

Again NOPE, those are NOT the true sequence of events per God's written Word.

There is NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE written of anywhere in God's Word.

Jesus showed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 that His return will be AFTER... the tribulation to gather His saints. And it can't be any more a direct statement than that.

 

[Douggg]

Again NOPE, those are NOT the true sequence of events per God's written Word.

There is NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE written of anywhere in God's Word.

Jesus showed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 that His return will be AFTER... the tribulation to gather His saints. And it can't be any more a direct statement than that.

The resurrection/rapture will take place before the abomination of desolation is placed on the temple mount.

What is not known is how far before that happens, that the resurrection/rapture will take place.

Are you aware that pre-trib is a man-made term that implies before the 70th week of Daniel 9 begins ? There term is actually a misnomer ( a misleading term) because not all of the 70th week will be tribulation.

As far as Matthew 24:31, the gathering of the elect by Jesus's angels, that is not referring to the rapture. It is referring to
gathering of the Jews from the nations around the world back to the land of their fore fathers - Israel. It will be the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Take a look at verse 4 and compare it to Matthew 24:31.

 

[Jay Ross]

The resurrection/rapture will take place before the abomination of desolation is placed on the temple mount.

That is not what Jesus told His disciples in Mat 24:29-31.

Jesus tells us that the gathering of all of the peoples of the earth will begin after Satan and His fellow heavenly hosts have been punished after they have been released from the Bottomless pit.

Also, Isaiah 24:21-23 confirms the understanding that Jesus told His disciples.

 

[Writer]

You have your numbered events wrong. "the DEAD in Christ shall rise 1st" Do you see the 1 (ONE) in first?

 

[Douggg]

That is not what Jesus told His disciples in Mat 24:29-31.

Jesus tells us that the gathering of all of the peoples of the earth will begin after Satan and His fellow heavenly hosts have been punished after they have been released from the Bottomless pit.

Also, Isaiah 24:21-23 confirms the understanding that Jesus told His disciples.

Jay, Matthew 24:29-31 takes place at the end of the great tribulation period.

The resurrection for the Great White Throne Judgment will be after Satan has been cast into the lake of fire, correct. But that is not what we were discussing.

 

[Douggg]

You have your numbered events wrong. "the DEAD in Christ shall rise 1st" Do you see the 1 (ONE) in first?

The resurrection/rapture is basically one event, considering verse 17.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
,

 

[Truth7t7]

This is the sequence of events:

1. the resurrection/rapture event.

The resurrection of all takes place at the Lord's return (The End)

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

The resurrection/rapture is basically one event, considering verse 17.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
,

The resurrection of "All" takes place at the Lord's return (The End) on the last day

 

[David in NJ]

This is the sequence of events:

1. the resurrection/rapture event.
2. then the great tribulation - time of the beast
3. then Jesus returns to earth - with His bride
4. then the martyred great tribulation saints will be resurrected.
5. then the 1000 years of Revelation 20 take place.


View attachment 73723

Your chart is man-made pre-fib error

READ Matthew chapter 24 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15

 

[David in NJ]

That is not what Jesus told His disciples in Mat 24:29-31.

Jesus tells us that the gathering of all of the peoples of the earth will begin after Satan and His fellow heavenly hosts have been punished after they have been released from the Bottomless pit.

Also, Isaiah 24:21-23 confirms the understanding that Jesus told His disciples.

Brother Jay

Isaiah 24:1-6 is the Second Coming

Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the Lord has spoken this word.
4The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty people of the earth languish.
5The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left. = 2 Thess 1:7-10

Isaiah 24:21-23 is also part of the Second Coming when Satan is locked up for 1,000 years = Revelation 20:1-4

It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

[Jay Ross]

This is the sequence of events:

View attachment 73723

Douggg your diagram is wrong on so many fronts and does not agree with what is found in the scriptures in any way.

There will be no resurrection/rapture of all of the saints such that they go up into heaven as indicated in your diagram.

In under 20 years, Isaiah 24:19-22 will occur: -

19 The earth, {i.e. God’s earth}, is spoilt beyond spoiling,​

The earth is broken beyond breaking,​

The earth is in turmoil beyond turmoil.​

20 The earth shall waver beyond wavering like a drunkard,​

And the {watchman’s} hut shall waver;​

The transgression shall be heavy upon it,​

And it will be overwhelmed and not continue.​

​

21 It shall come to pass in that day​

That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,​

And on the face of the land the kings of the face of the land.​

22 They will be gathered together,​

As prisoners are gathered in the pit,​

And will be shut up in the prison; i.e. the Bottomless Pit,​

After many days, i.e. 1000 years, they will be punished.​

23 Then the moon will be disgraced​

And the sun ashamed;​

For the Lord of hosts will reign​

On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem​

And before His elders, gloriously.​

Now Matthew 24:29-31: -

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:​

​

‘The sun will be darkened,​

and the moon will not give its light;​

the stars will fall from the sky,​

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

​

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

Also tells us the same story.

Now Daniel 7:11-14 tells us that when the beasts, i.e. the fallen heavenly hosts, are judged, that Jesus is given dominion over the peoples of the earth and the everlasting Kingdom.

Your diagram in no way reflects this.

 

[Jay Ross]

Brother Jay

Isaiah 24:1-6 is the Second Coming

Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the Lord has spoken this word.
4The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty people of the earth languish.
5The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left. = 2 Thess 1:7-10

Here is 2 Thess 1:7-10 for completion of your post: -

2 Thess 1:5-10: - Christ’s Coming​

​

5 All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so, you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10 on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.​

Sadly, you have associated these verses with the wrong portion of Isaiah 24. This should have been associated with Isaiah 24:23.

You also chose to leave these verses out for Isaiah 24: -

7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes,
All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases,
The noise of the jubilant ends,
The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song;
Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down;
Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets,
All joy is darkened,
The mirth of the earth is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left,
And the gate is stricken with destruction.
13 When it shall be thus in the midst of the earth among the people,
It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,
Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done.

14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing;
For the majesty of the Lord
They shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Therefore glorify the Lord in the dawning light,
The name of the Lord God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea.
16 From the very beginning of the earth we have heard songs:

"Glory to the righteous!"
But I said, "I am ruined, ruined!
Woe to me!
The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously."
17 Fear and the pit and the snare are upon you,
O inhabitant of the earth, {i.e. God’s earth}.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.

Isaiah 24:21-23 is also part of the Second Coming when Satan is locked up for 1,000 years = Revelation 20:1-4

It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The above verses happen at the beginning of Isaiah 24:21 at the start of the Summer Season.

 

[David in NJ]

Here is 2 Thess 1:7-10 for completion of your post: -

​

2 Thess 1:5-10: - Christ’s Coming​

​

5 All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so, you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10 on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.​

Sadly, you have associated these verses with the wrong portion of Isaiah 24. This should have been associated with Isaiah 24:23.

You also chose to leave these verses out for Isaiah 24: -

7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes,
All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases,
The noise of the jubilant ends,
The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song;
Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down;
Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets,
All joy is darkened,
The mirth of the earth is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left,
And the gate is stricken with destruction.
13 When it shall be thus in the midst of the earth among the people,
It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,
Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done.

14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing;
For the majesty of the Lord
They shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Therefore glorify the Lord in the dawning light,
The name of the Lord God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea.
16 From the very beginning of the earth we have heard songs:

"Glory to the righteous!"
But I said, "I am ruined, ruined!
Woe to me!
The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously."
17 Fear and the pit and the snare are upon you,
O inhabitant of the earth, {i.e. God’s earth}.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.





The above verses happen at the beginning of Isaiah 24:21 at the start of the Summer Season.

Thank You Jay for this response = i will look at tomorrow

 

[David in NJ]

Douggg your diagram is wrong on so many fronts and does not agree with what is found in the scriptures in any way.

There will be no resurrection/rapture of all of the saints such that they go up into heaven as indicated in your diagram.

In under 20 years, Isaiah 24:19-22 will occur: -

19 The earth, {i.e. God’s earth}, is spoilt beyond spoiling,​

The earth is broken beyond breaking,​

The earth is in turmoil beyond turmoil.​

20 The earth shall waver beyond wavering like a drunkard,​

And the {watchman’s} hut shall waver;​

The transgression shall be heavy upon it,​

And it will be overwhelmed and not continue.​

​

21 It shall come to pass in that day​

That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,​

And on the face of the land the kings of the face of the land.​

22 They will be gathered together,​

As prisoners are gathered in the pit,​

And will be shut up in the prison; i.e. the Bottomless Pit,​

After many days, i.e. 1000 years, they will be punished.​

23 Then the moon will be disgraced​

And the sun ashamed;​

For the Lord of hosts will reign​

On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem​

And before His elders, gloriously.​

Now Matthew 24:29-31: -

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:​

​

‘The sun will be darkened,​

and the moon will not give its light;​

the stars will fall from the sky,​

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

​

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

Also tells us the same story.

Now Daniel 7:11-14 tells us that when the beasts, i.e. the fallen heavenly hosts, are judged, that Jesus is given dominion over the peoples of the earth and the everlasting Kingdom.

Your diagram in no way reflects this.

19 The earth, {i.e. God’s earth}, is spoilt beyond spoiling,
The earth is broken beyond breaking,
The earth is in turmoil beyond turmoil.
20 The earth shall waver beyond wavering like a drunkard,
And the {watchman’s} hut shall waver;
The transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will be overwhelmed and not continue.

This is NOT the COMPLETE destruction of the earth as YOU pointed out correctly in Matt 24:29-31
That is why it left it out in my post

The COMPLETE destruction of the earth ONLY occurs AFTER the 1,000 Years and Satan is let out of his punishment/prison

 

[Writer]

You have your numbered events wrong. "the DEAD in Christ shall rise 1st" Do you see the 1 (ONE) in first?

The resurrection/rapture is basically one event, considering verse 17.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Again the resurrection of the "dead" and your interpretation of the "rapture" caught up alive is not one and the same...sorry!

Secondly, there is nothing regarding 16 and 17 that makes any claim to a "PRE" trib time. You like avoiding Mathew 24:29 and giving Jesus the first "AND" the LAST word on the matter of when: "...after the tribulation of those days...". Now I bet you'll go to the prophets, and to the apostles and to who knows who in order to trump the words of Jesus won't you?

The entire bible MUST conform to Jesus and the Holy Spirit who is the spirit of Christ. If they don't conform, then you MUST ponder and meditate until you get it right. Otherwise you are just try to sell a collage made up of pieces of scripture to fit your narrative.

 

[Douggg]

The resurrection of "All" takes place at the Lord's return (The End) on the last day

The wrath of God will take place during the great tribulation period. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and rapture of the living in Christ will take place before then.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[Douggg]

Again the resurrection of the "dead" and your interpretation of the "rapture" caught up alive is not one and the same...sorry!

The raptured in Christ will be caught up together with the resurrected in Christ.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The resurrection/rapture is one event.

Secondly, there is nothing regarding 16 and 17 that makes any claim to a "PRE" trib time.

I am not claiming a pre-trib event, although the event may be. It is not known for certain.

"Pre-trib" a man made term to mean pre-70 week is actually a misnomer (misleading term) as most of the first half of the 70th week is not tribulation.

You like avoiding Mathew 24:29 and giving Jesus the first "AND" the LAST word on the matter of when: "...after the tribulation of those days...".

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The tribulation of those days refers to the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11. The first 1290 days of the great tribulation which will be 1335 days long and will end the day that Jesus returns.

 

[Writer]

The raptured in Christ will be caught up together with the resurrected in Christ.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The resurrection/rapture is one event.


I am not claiming a pre-trib event, although the event may be. It is not known for certain.

"Pre-trib" a man made term to mean pre-70 week is actually a misnomer (misleading term) as most of the first half of the 70th week is not tribulation.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The tribulation of those days refers to the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11. The first 1290 days of the great tribulation which will be 1335 days long and will end the day that Jesus returns.


View attachment 73875

The togetherness you speak of occurs at Jesus second coming. If that's what you mean than I agree because He gathers His elect, with the dead rising first, then we who remain. This is called the "First" resurrection. Before Jesus second coming there is no pre tribulation rapture

 

[Douggg]

The togetherness you speak of occurs at Jesus second coming. If that's what you mean than I agree because He gathers His elect, with the dead rising first, then we who remain. This is called the "First" resurrection. Before Jesus second coming there is no pre tribulation rapture

The resurrection/rapture event will take place before the great tribulation period begins. The great tribulation will be a time of God's wrath. Christians have not been appointed to God's wrath as it says in 1Thessalonians5.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.