. . . the seven spirits . . . all plural.
Interestingly, not just "before" pros the throne, but "in sight of the throne", enopion, to do with the eyes, what you see.
Much love!
The seven fold Spirit of God?
- Thread starter stunnedbygrace
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. . . the seven spirits . . . all plural.
Interestingly, not just "before" pros the throne, but "in sight of the throne", enopion, to do with the eyes, what you see.
Much love!
Without any doubt. It seems often to be the way of many bearing the label of Christian.
Peter has the list building, rather than different aspects 2 Peter 1:5-7
Faith => goodness => knowledge => self control => perseverance => godliness => brotherly kindness => love
This is a progression into maturity. We start with the encounter with Jesus and the gift of faith. This leads us to what goodness is in its widest sense, in Jesus, which is expanded through knowledge, which shows us we need to exercise self control to steer the right path, which take perseverance through obstacles, which starts to arrive at godliness, being like God, which starts to overflow to others in brotherly kindness and finally brings us to a place were we can start to love from the heart.
My life echoes this very growth, as each layer was layed down. It is a progression from the heart outwards finally bringing us to a point where love breaks out to others. Very often we assume love just appears, like its always been there, when Peter is showing us we have a road to walk, emotional conclusions to change, layers to lay, things to work through to achieve our goal.
God is love, and sin confuses so many issues in us, we see a maze of our reactions and stumbling in the dark, not knowing why we seem to rage, get hurt and are not masters of our own internal lives. It is amazing Peter's conclusion if we achieve this we have made our calling secure.
So thats my take on Peters list. This does not fit a seven fold aspect of the Spirit, or at least not from my take on this at the moment.
Faith => goodness => knowledge => self control => perseverance => godliness => brotherly kindness => love
This is a progression into maturity. We start with the encounter with Jesus and the gift of faith. This leads us to what goodness is in its widest sense, in Jesus, which is expanded through knowledge, which shows us we need to exercise self control to steer the right path, which take perseverance through obstacles, which starts to arrive at godliness, being like God, which starts to overflow to others in brotherly kindness and finally brings us to a place were we can start to love from the heart.
My life echoes this very growth, as each layer was layed down. It is a progression from the heart outwards finally bringing us to a point where love breaks out to others. Very often we assume love just appears, like its always been there, when Peter is showing us we have a road to walk, emotional conclusions to change, layers to lay, things to work through to achieve our goal.
God is love, and sin confuses so many issues in us, we see a maze of our reactions and stumbling in the dark, not knowing why we seem to rage, get hurt and are not masters of our own internal lives. It is amazing Peter's conclusion if we achieve this we have made our calling secure.
So thats my take on Peters list. This does not fit a seven fold aspect of the Spirit, or at least not from my take on this at the moment.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
It's funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday morning and asking myself the same question. I don't yet know the answer, but may I share my current thinking? At first I was thinking about "completion" since it is said that the number 7 represents completion. But when this passage came to my mind yesterday, I was walking down the stairs. And I begin to think about spacial dimensions. We have four compass points and altitude (or elevation.) That is, we have left, right, forward, backward, up and down. Six degrees of motion.
I thought about the six degrees of motion and how, if John had said, "the six spirits" of God, this would represent the fact that the Spirit is every where. So I wondered what the seventh spirit might represent. To this question I have two possible answers, 1) time, or 2) inward
So then, perhaps "sevenfold" Spirit is symbolic for God's omnipresence -- everywhere all the time. Or perhaps "sevenfold" represents "everywhere including within."
I don't know. This is me speculating a bit. Thanks so much stunnedbygrace for your thoughtful post.
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
I have always used these same passages to explain the 7 fold Spirit of God. I mean we know from Eph 4 that there is "One" Spirit so that leaves us with a responsibility to reconcile what appears to be a contradiction. This apparent contradiction was one of the primary reasons that Revelation took so long to be accepted as Canon.
On a side note, we can give a more figurative interpretation to the 7 Spirits by metaphorically assigning the meaning of "perfection" or "completeness" to the number 7.
101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP only, and there are some good post here.
but consider this, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." here Spirit is singular, right meaning only one Spirit, correct. now the next verse,
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
someone might say, "that's just GIFTS of the same one Spirit". reasonable, but lets see if this is so?
2 Corinthians 4:13 "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;" ok did not 1 Corinthians 12:9a state, "To another faith by the same Spirit". well that same Spirit, is the Spirit of FAITH. so the "Gifts" are the SAME Spirit.
I hoped that helped.
PICJAG.
but consider this, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." here Spirit is singular, right meaning only one Spirit, correct. now the next verse,
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
someone might say, "that's just GIFTS of the same one Spirit". reasonable, but lets see if this is so?
2 Corinthians 4:13 "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;" ok did not 1 Corinthians 12:9a state, "To another faith by the same Spirit". well that same Spirit, is the Spirit of FAITH. so the "Gifts" are the SAME Spirit.
I hoped that helped.
PICJAG.
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
Hi 101G,
I like that. The only issue I see with it being directly applied to the 7 Spirits is that there are 8 gifts listed. However, I do see the point that even though there are more than 7 listed they still denote "one" Spirit
101G
Well-Known Member
Hi Huperetes,
not saying that you're right or wrong, if you see 8 gifts list them please here in 1 Corinthians 12. that intresting.
PICJAG.
I look at it more like the process of growth in...righteousness - humility, fear of the Lord, etc.
And as Roman's 6:22 says, righteousness leads to fruit and into holiness and eternal life.
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But then, what we are taught today is mostly that...there is no growth in righteousness leading to fruit and then into holiness. We are instead taught that we are holy from day one. So we make no distinction between what is holy and what is not. We just say we are holy in some imaginary way, even if we arent even righteous!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is one of those doctrines of demons that Satan loves us to think.
It is so widespread at this point that I have my suspicions that it IS the great falling away.
101G
Well-Known Member
Good thought, growing is a measure that is really not notice by you that much, but by other. that's what it is a practice...... practice make ... perfect... and when that which is perfect come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
PICJAG.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It is so prevalent, the error has become the truth, and the actual truth is called heresy.
101G
Well-Known Member
Maybe I might have missed your post, but if you se 8 gifts, consider this. the very first two gifts on the list are actually one, the Pastoral gift. if this is not in your count of 8 then that would be 7. hence the reason why I asked.
for, "the Spirit the word of wisdom", is understanding, to another, "the word of knowledge" by the same Spirit;" this Knowledge and Understanding is what God use in Pastors to feed his sheep. supportive scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
unless you have another two that are the same, then it stays at 8.
PICJAG.
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
Here I thought I was being generous because I merged tongues and interpretation into one.:)The bible makes a difference between knowledge and understanding:
Pr 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get (1)wisdom: and with all thy getting get (2)understanding.
Let's do a complete breakdown with that in mind:
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the (1)word of wisdom; (2)to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another (3)faith by the same Spirit; to another (4)the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another(5) the working of miracles; to another(6) prophecy; to another (7)discerning of spirits; to another (8)divers kinds of tongues; to another (9)the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
In reality there are nine. Now I am willing to merge diverse tongues and interpretation of tongues even though there really is a difference. As for knowledge and wisdom? Two entirely different things.However, the main point is "echad" or "oneness" out of plurality. I think you have made that well.
Blessings
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101G
Well-Known Member
First thanks for your reply, I was leaning that way with the tongues also. but I'm pretty sure that the the first two gifts are one combined, (the ministry Gift, or the pastoral gift). for a "word" of wisdom, not wisdom itself, but the "word of wisdom produce "understanding". Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" and Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." so out of his mouth cones "words", and a "word" of wisdom produce "understanding.
so if we combined the tongues, and the word of wisdom and knowledge we get 7. I like your used of the echad here in a plurality of one.
thanks for the input.
PICJAG.
