The Sheep and Goat judgement

[Harvest 1874]

But we will die before the time of the GWT judgement, so I must disagree with your above statement because verse Reve 20:12 is applicable to the risen dead, which means that this verse is applicable to me at this present time. Cannot get around that fact.

A distinction is made between the risen dead in the next age (those resuscitated who will take part in the resurrection by judgement), and those presently living now during the Gospel age, considered dead, but risen in Christ.

The GWT Judgement has nothing to do with any of the risen in Christ, their trial has already begun and it is one based upon faith (works howbeit imperfect are nevertheless acceptable in Christ, as a confirmation of our faith). The GWT Judgement in contrast is based solely upon works, and applicable only to the next age and to those experiencing the resurrect by judgement.

If you're not a part of those called now you will share in the GWT Judgement.

 

[Enoch111]

Why is it that the religious have to have EVIDENCE. Seeing works of the flesh is not evidence of anything but works of the flesh.

Who is talking about *works of the flesh*? This is about works of the Spirit. Two things which are totally opposite.

I think the scriptures say that the Jews seek a sign and the Gentile seek wisdom.

Correct. And they were given many, many signs, yet they refused to believe the Gospel. So why would James waste his time on addressing them? He is writing to converted, saved Jews, and since he speaks of the 12 tribes, we must understand that this includes all Hebrew Christians. Jews in Judea were technically from three tribes at the time he was writing.

It depends on the purpose of the good works. If they are to show your righteousness then that is wrong because no man is righteous in their flesh.

The purpose of good works is to do God's will. This has nothing to do with trying to establish one's righteousness through the works of the Law or the works of the flesh. So you have things thoroughly confused. Here is the purpose: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.(Eph 2:10)

But if you wish to go around broadcasting your righteousness go to it but it will not convince me...

This statement shows that you really need to properly study the function of good works in the sanctification of Christians. No one who is simply walking in the Spirit is trying to *broadcast* his good works. But they will be seen by others, and God will be glorified.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (Mt 5:16)

 

[Jay Ross]

perhaps this chapter tells us something: -

Matthew 7 Do Not Judge
(Luke 6:37-42)

7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking
(Luke 11:9-13)​

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The Narrow Way
(Luke 13:24)​

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
(Matt 12:33; Luke 6:43-45)​

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26,27)​

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Build on the Rock
(Luke 6:47-49)

24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.​

The ministry of Grace must also be tempered by what Christ said: - "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; . . .

What am I hearing in this thread, is that if I hear and accept the words, and believe the words then I am saved.

There is nothing being said about having to also do the will of the Father.

What I am "teaching" as you have called it, is wrong in your opinion, because I am also teaching that even after I have received God's grace of my salvation, I must also do the will of my Father, God. I can pray and call on the name of the Lord and do signs and wonders but unless I take up my own cross and follow His example, I am not one of Christ's disciples.

Everybody can work out their own salvation and how they will demonstrate their relationship with God. I have chosen to put legs on my words of accepting Christ as my Saviour by being willing to also do the will of my Father in Heaven.

Will I be perfect in achieving this goal all of the time? No, I will not measure up in what I do and I will fail by sinning, but I also know that if I am walking on my journey of life with Christ, then because of my relationship with Him, He will lift me up when I fall and will help me and guide me into the renewing of my mind and encourage me to but on the refurbished nature that God intended me to have since the beginning of time.

This is how I am choosing to living my life in Christ, others must chose how they intend to live their own lives in Christ in working out their own salvation. My prayer for others is that God will include them in those whom He is drawing to Himself and that they will not be lost because of their choices in life.

 

[H. Richard]

Who is talking about *works of the flesh*? This is about works of the Spirit. Two things which are totally opposite.

Correct. And they were given many, many signs, yet they refused to believe the Gospel. So why would James waste his time on addressing them? He is writing to converted, saved Jews, and since he speaks of the 12 tribes, we must understand that this includes all Hebrew Christians. Jews in Judea were technically from three tribes at the time he was writing.

The purpose of good works is to do God's will. This has nothing to do with trying to establish one's righteousness through the works of the Law or the works of the flesh. So you have things thoroughly confused. Here is the purpose: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.(Eph 2:10)

This statement shows that you really need to properly study the function of good works in the sanctification of Christians. No one who is simply walking in the Spirit is trying to *broadcast* his good works. But they will be seen by others, and God will be glorified.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (Mt 5:16)

***

I just love it!!! I see you think you have studied it more than me so I will not write any more of what I believe since as you say I am totally wrong and you are totally right. But I do have questions for you.

Explain to me how what a person does is supposed to sanctify them when the scriptures say they are already sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Are the scriptures wrong? Can they be MORE sanctified by their works????

1 Cor 6:11-12
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
NKJV

The religious Church has been given the name of "HOLIER THAN THOU" by those outside of the church. Why is that?? Can it be because they see through the false hypocritcal claims and see that the so called Christian sin as much as they do?? Even those that do not claim Jesus are generous and do good works.

See Christ in you; why not show who Christ is by telling them that God loved them so much He sent His only Son into the world to die and pay for their sins??? That, to me, is showing Christ.

 

[H. Richard]

perhaps this chapter tells us something: -

Matthew 7 Do Not Judge
(Luke 6:37-42)

7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking
(Luke 11:9-13)​

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The Narrow Way
(Luke 13:24)​

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
(Matt 12:33; Luke 6:43-45)​

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26,27)​

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Build on the Rock
(Luke 6:47-49)

24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.​

The ministry of Grace must also be tempered by what Christ said: - "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; . . .

What am I hearing in this thread, is that if I hear and accept the words, and believe the words then I am saved.

There is nothing being said about having to also do the will of the Father.

What I am "teaching" as you have called it, is wrong in your opinion, because I am also teaching that even after I have received God's grace of my salvation, I must also do the will of my Father, God. I can pray and call on the name of the Lord and do signs and wonders but unless I take up my own cross and follow His example, I am not one of Christ's disciples.

Everybody can work out their own salvation and how they will demonstrate their relationship with God. I have chosen to put legs on my words of accepting Christ as my Saviour by being willing to also do the will of my Father in Heaven.

Will I be perfect in achieving this goal all of the time? No, I will not measure up in what I do and I will fail by sinning, but I also know that if I am walking on my journey of life with Christ, then because of my relationship with Him, He will lift me up when I fall and will help me and guide me into the renewing of my mind and encourage me to but on the refurbished nature that God intended me to have since the beginning of time.

This is how I am choosing to living my life in Christ, others must chose how they intend to live their own lives in Christ in working out their own salvation. My prayer for others is that God will include them in those whom He is drawing to Himself and that they will not be lost because of their choices in life.

****
You say you are doing the will of the Father. Haven't you read where Jesus tells us what that will is. It does not glorify man's work.

John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
NKJV

I see that all your references come from the 4 gospels which were given to those under the Law of Moses so I take it that you think we are still under the Law of Moses.

 

[Jay Ross]

****
You say you are doing the will of the Father. Haven't you read where Jesus tells us what that will is. It does not glorify man's work.

John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
NKJV

I see that all your references come from the 4 gospels which were given to those under the Law of Moses so I take it that you think we are still under the Law of Moses.

I also agree with what you have posted from John 6 : 28-29, but to say you believe and to show that you believe requires you to put legs so to speak under what you say. In Luke 14:27 Jesus said the following: -

Luke 14:27: - 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

Now the question that springs to my mind is the word "bear" not an action word and as such can it be considered to be a form of work?

In Isaiah 58, does not God spell out to the people of the vine what He requires of them for them to be healed?

Oh, this was only spoke to the Jews at that time and is therefore not also applicable to us as well because we were grafted onto the vine after this requirement from the Book of Isaiah was given.

I do not believe that I can pick and chose what God's requirements for my final salvation is. Sadly, it seems, you have been posting that one can.

 

[H. Richard]

I also agree with what you have posted from John 6 : 28-29, but to say you believe and to show that you believe requires you to put legs so to speak under what you say. In Luke 14:27 Jesus said the following: -

Luke 14:27: - 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

Now the question that springs to my mind is the word "bear" not an action word and as such can it be considered to be a form of work?

In Isaiah 58, does not God spell out to the people of the vine what He requires of them for them to be healed?

Oh, this was only spoke to the Jews at that time and is therefore not also applicable to us as well because we were grafted onto the vine after this requirement from the Book of Isaiah was given.

I do not believe that I can pick and chose what God's requirements for my final salvation is. Sadly, it seems, you have been posting that one can.

***
God's requirements for this age is that men glorify God's Son. In the years before Jesus came men were required to keep God's laws but you can see how that turned out. So God made a way for sinners to be saved. That way is His free gift of salvation Jesus bought for man when He shed His blood to pay for their sins.

I do not have to show my works to anyone on earth. But what I write should show my works. Some think they are required to do all that Jesus commanded the Jews to do. But the Jews were under the Law of Moses and so was Jesus at that time. To take what Jesus said to the Jews and bring that under grace will not work.

You should try to understand what grafting means. The branches grafted in do not become the same as the original branches. Check it out before you say that they become like the original branches. What is grafted in feeds off the same root as the original branches. If what is grafted in becomes like the plant it is grafted into why bother.

 

[Nancy]

***
God's requirements for this age is that men glorify God's Son. In the years before Jesus came men were required to keep God's laws but you can see how that turned out. So God made a way for sinners to be saved. That way is His free gift of salvation Jesus bought for man when He shed His blood to pay for their sins.

I do not have to show my works to anyone on earth. But what I write should show my works. Some think they are required to do all that Jesus commanded the Jews to do. But the Jews were under the Law of Moses and so was Jesus at that time. To take what Jesus said to the Jews and bring that under grace will not work.

You should try to understand what grafting means. The branches grafted in do not become the same as the original branches. Check it out before you say that they become like the original branches. What is grafted in feeds off the same root as the original branches. If what is grafted in becomes like the plant it is grafted into why bother.

I've heard it said to flirt with Moses is to cheat on Jesus

 

[Jay Ross]

Deuteronomy 10:12-22 The Essence of the Law

12 "And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good? 14 Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it. 15 The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. 18 He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. 19 Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 You shall fear the Lord your God; you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. 21 He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen. 22 Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
​

Is not the above also what is required of the sheep and the goats as found in the parable in Matthew 25: 31 - 46.

James 1: 21 - 27 Doers — Not Hearers Only
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
​

Is James only written to the 12 tribes of the dispersion, many of who would have been considered "Gentiles" by the Jews in Jerusalem during and just after the first advent of Christ.

Is the same requirement not given in the Old and the New Testament. Is it not requited of the Israelites as well as the Christians?

Shalom

 

[H. Richard]

Deuteronomy 10:12-22 The Essence of the Law

12 "And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good? 14 Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it. 15 The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. 18 He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. 19 Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 You shall fear the Lord your God; you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. 21 He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen. 22 Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
​

Is not the above also what is required of the sheep and the goats as found in the parable in Matthew 25: 31 - 46.

James 1: 21 - 27 Doers — Not Hearers Only
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
​

Is James only written to the 12 tribes of the dispersion, many of who would have been considered "Gentiles" by the Jews in Jerusalem during and just after the first advent of Christ.

Is the same requirement not given in the Old and the New Testament. Is it not requited of the Israelites as well as the Christians?

Shalom

***
So, to some, nothing changed after Jesus' death on the cross. But God's judgement on mankind did change. Mankind is no longer judged by what they can do to save themselves. They will be judged on what they did about his work on the cross. Just like it was with the Jews. The Jews refused to believe Jesus was their Messiah and King. Today if a person refuses to believe, have faith in, confidence in His work on the cross they are refusing to believe God's work on the cross.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am old and like Paul I have fought the good fight of teaching that God loved man so much He gave His only Son to pay the price of the sins of men.

To the religious I must show my faith by my works. What I see is that the religious have been putting out this "being like Christ" so much that men think they CAN be like Christ

I can respect your "good fight" in the Lord, and I definitely mean you no disrespect. About the goats and the sheep...I don't get the time period but see it began with "Let there be light." where God divided the light from the dark and it continues. Agree with you: it is not in man to work. Agree with you that man can in no way save himself. Agree we are saved by faith only, but also believe: "faith without works(of Spirit) is dead". Dead from the evident lack of love for a brother. Where we also disagree, is with James being in error. It is no different from those that claim Paul is in error and throw Paul's teachings out. Pick and choosing what books you believe to be inspired by the Spirit of God and which you don't believe are without error. Then we decide? Not God? To claim James is in error is a grave error...but then again do you believe the word of God as Spirit breathed and infallible? I believe the word was written of both(Man)flesh and prone to false teachings and error... but also Spirit breathed(Infallible) and alive to those born of Spirit then those errors injected of man becoming alive(used of the Spirit). For instance how can a person pick up the word and not hear God in it and twist it?...but after the Word becomes alive to them(Spirit-filled) then it is infallible? Truth. Light. The way. It is no different with James and Paul...first their teachings are used in a negative light and misapplied. Second, the words become alive and bread for the hungry. All good for correction and for the perfecting of the saints. You can't omit James teachings to the Jew because we are the Jew(God's chosen). To say there are no "works" after faith... consider... we do not even have a desire to eat of the word or drink of His new covenant until after faith. Being hungry for the word is a "work" produced of the Spirit, not of man least he boast in his own ability. To depart from evil...is also another "work" produced of the Spirit. There are many changes(deeds) that become evident after faith. what is " perfecting of the saints" if not "works" of the Spirit. You think I mean man does the works, but that is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting love is a evident work of the Spirit and clearly seen in the children of God...He that does not love his brother, has not seen or does not know God.

 

[brakelite]

An integral part of the gospel message for these last days is that the hour of God's judgement has already come. Revelation 14:6,7. This makes perfect sense when one considers the context of the second coming, when the sheep and goats will need to be divided before Jesus comes...much the same as the tares need to be separated from the wheat. The harvest is ripe and the angels are ready to reap. Thus whatever camp you are in, has been decided in heaven before Christ comes to take His bride home. The tares are destroyed the wheat gathered into God's barn.

 

[Episkopos]

"H. Richard, post: 428044, member: 6940"***

All of these suffered for the gospel. They suffered because of their faith in God. My message is that faith in God's work on the cross is the only thing that saves in this age of grace. Because I teach this I am taken to task for saying that salvation is the work of God, not man.

What saves us is not God's work on the cross but God's work in us. It is not for sinful men to claim something for themselves by their own faith. It is the operation of God that quickens us into the beginnings of a spiritual life.

I am old and like Paul I have fought the good fight of teaching that God loved man so much He gave His only Son to pay the price of the sins of men.

To the religious I must show my faith by my works.
What I see is that the religious have been putting out this "being like Christ" so much that men think they CAN be like Christ by saying they are sinless in the flesh. Everyone on this, and any forum, who tells others that they must stop sinning in order to be saved are hypocrites because they sin in the flesh too.

I don't know what you have heard...or possibly misunderstood...but we are to be as Christ. And this is by grace. We receive the power from God which has been fashioned into the "new man" which we are to put on. This new man is fashioned in the likeness of Christ by the resurrection power of Christ. if we are dead with Him we are also alive with Him.

But the religious get on forums talking about how others must stop sinning in order to be saved and it is an attempt to show they don't sin any longer because they can stop sinning in the flesh.

We are not called to sin..or saved to sin...but we are saved from sin. We are dead to sin who are alive to the risen Christ. Otherwise we are still dead in our sins pondering our salvations by bible readings.

The tragic event I posted was real and it shows the devastation the so called sinless Christian can do to the lost. But as anyone can see by one of the replies the religious person does not want this to be known. They love their religion that teaches that man must stop sinning because it allows them to make others see their sinless perfection.

We put on Christ to enter into HIS perfect work for us. He is our perfection. We can't do anything of the sort in the power of the flesh. But we are now the righteousness of God in Him...not the filthy rags variety of the flesh.

As for me, I am a man that is living in a body of sinful flesh just as all people are. I do not trust in my flesh to save me by its works. I trust in the work Of God on the cross.

AND His resurrection power (grace) that we all have access to by faith. If we walk in the Spirit we shall not do the works of the flesh.

That is all I claim and because of God's promise in the gospel of grace it is all I need. And if others teach otherwise they are sinning the sin of unbelief, unbelief in the work and power of the cross.

Or denying the resurrection according to power...which is grace...His strength in our weakness.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV


So we ought to seek God for the full measure of grace. When we do so we may enter into the power that raised Jesus from the dead...and live from there. We do have access to this grace although it takes real faith and consecration. Few will do this...as Jesus said. But we are to preach a Christ that has been resurrected for our justification.

 

[zipzaddle]

In my opinion miss-using the scriptures to make social moral points will send many to hell.

Jesus would be alone in the Kingdom if condemnation for making error in interpreting scripture.

We are one body [Jew and Gentile] in Christ. Jesus said, "I in you, them in us and God in all."

Humans are all God's children including the one's who choose not to follow God. Did God not create all humans? The wisdom is we are brothers and sisters. Love one another as you are one family. This includes the people who choose to do evil. Although they are an enemy to God God is not an enemy to them. He is their Father and loves them. Seeing through God's eyes is the wisdom of understanding.

The desire to help others is love [charity]. This is a great benefit for the person giving and an enemy makes a great example of love's power. It is faith [I don't know, but believe Jesus is right] to start then through works [learning to understand] and finally wisdom [automatic action or becomes the person]. Christians come to Jesus as children [immature] and the Holy Spirit [God's Spirit] teaches to mature the spirit.

The Sheep and Goat Judgement is the righteous and wicked. Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serves God and him that serves him not. As many have mentioned in this thread "discern the time of event" and Sheep and Goat Judgement happens at the end of this world.