1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured "The Sin Of The World"

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by soul man, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Isaiah said "in his body he bore our sin and transgressions." What happened on the outside of Christ is what what they were doing to his body (death), but it was "the sin of the world" being completely dealt with by Christ on the cross. What is "the sin of the world" it is all in Adam, the sin nature and all that sin could cause and do was dealt a final death blow, gone forever by the cross. John the Baptist said;

    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. - John 1:29

    The sin of the world is singular; in it all sin-sinning-sin nature, Satan nature-ever committed or to be committed sin was in the lamb. How is the sin of the world dealt with; by crucifying "the sin nature."
     
    marks likes this.
  2. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Hello soul man, I don't believe in the theological view of man's fallen nature, so for that, and many other reasons, I do not believe that the expression conveyed by either Isaiah or John the Baptist, is referring to any particular sin, or multitude of sins, committed by mankind. It is merely referring to the sacrifice that Christ had to make, in order to redeem man from the curse that God had laid upon them.
    Jesus' death and final sacrifice, was a requirement of the Levitical Law, a covenant that God had established with His people. Those who wanted to be accepted into God's Kingdom, proselyte or natural born (Israelite), were obligated to live in accordance with this Law - which held men in bondage.
    Christ fulfilled the Law to perfection, and due to this, and God's immeasurable mercy, God was legally able to abrogate the Law, and institute a new Law, the Law of Faith in Christ Jesus.
    So, to me, Christ being the saviour of the world, who takes away man's sin, which can be expressed in various ways, is simply referring to the requisite sacrifice demanded by God's holy Law, that absolved men from their sins.
     
    soul man likes this.
  3. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It wouldn't let me quote anything so I'll just reply to your whole comment.

    Your not alone many don't believe that. So I have no real argument for or against. I am always curious to hear what others believe about sin, as far as it entering into the equation in the garden. So do you have a take on how sin (the root) came into being with humanity. I understand Lucifer sinning and getting the boot. What happened to Adam and Eve when they disobeyed the commandment of "do not eat." Just curious no right or wrong answer, thanks.
     
    Nancy likes this.
  4. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Free will. Love must be free to be authentic. Therefore, in order for there to have any meaning to the precedential precept, 'Love God with all one's heart', it was incumbent upon God to create those that are in his image, as autonomous and free.
    And thus, by doing so, man would realize where he actually stands with God, in his own heart.
    Thus, the prohibition of the fruit was not for God to discover man's inclinations, it was designed for man to appreciate the transcendence of God, and how anything less than total devotion will cause man to veer away from God.
    Similiar to the Apostle's denial of Jesus. Prior to the arrest of Christ, they all swore that they would remain faithful even unto death. The temptation and failure that they went through, was for their awareness. i.e. one only knows who their friends are in times of trouble.
    This is one reason, in my mind, why it is necessary for God to allow men to be tempted, and allow them to sin.
     
    soul man and Nancy like this.
  5. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    Ok but what happened to Adam and Eve when they ate from the tree and sin separated them from God? Something happened do you have anything on what took place?

    Sin has a life, what is that life and where did it come from?
     
  6. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Their change in constitution was explained rather explicitly, at the time that the transgression occurred;
    Woman:
    Pain in childbirth, husband will rule over you, your desire will be for him.
    Man:
    Return to dust & ashes, work the harvest by the sweat of your brow
    Earth:
    Produce thorn & thistles

    Nowhere does it pronounce a change in moral disposition. For again, they sinned even prior to the consequences of eating the fruit.
    There are several passages throughout Scripture that either explicitly, or implicitly, state that man continuously is the image bearer of God.

    Genesis 5:3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

    Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

    Genesis 4:4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,

    Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

    Genesis 18:23 Abraham came near and said, "Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? (God spared Lot for this reason)

    Genesis 19:29 Thus it came about, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived.

    Genesis 6:9 These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.


    Even the Law, which was instituted for 1500 years, had approximately 20 capital crimes. How can God demand righteousness from a totally depraved creature? Who asks a lame man to win a race, at the pain of death?
    How can man follow such commands as 'Love God with all one's heart', or 'be holy, as I am holy', which were demanded throughout all Covenants, if he has been incapacitated to do so at the Garden of Eden?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
    soul man likes this.
  7. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,951
    Likes Received:
    8,568
    @soul man 1 Corinthians 15.22: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
     
    Giuliano likes this.
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    6,523
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is why the Law invariably condemns, I think.

    Much love!
     
    soul man likes this.
  9. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    On the contrary, no one is guilty of something that they cannot help. It actually exonerates, similar to any judicial system, a plea of insanity, duress, passion, 3rd degree, etc always mitigates on the penalty, always.
    God's enactments are not that foolish. Like I said, no one demands for a lame man to win a race at the consequence of dying, no one but a sadist does.
    There were about 20 capital crimes according to the Law.
     
  10. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I think there is a clue there about what the "sin of the world" is. Don't we see Jesus given a crown of thorns? He changed the crown of thorns to a crown of life. He mastered the curse of death, giving him to power to resurrect people.
     
  11. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Possibly Giuliano, but I would say that the correlation that you're giving it, is entirely subjective. Yes, as far as I am concerned, you are absolutely correct in your conclusion, but I would hesitate to believe that that was the authorial intent, necessarily? Proposing that the invasive thorns and thistles that are introduced in Genesis 3, are alluding to Jesus' thorny crown that was mockingly given to him by the abusive Roman soldiers, I think lacks a strong enough analogy to be considered an authentic shadow or type?
     
    soul man likes this.
  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You can add the the ram Abraham saw caught in thorns. Then too the bush that the LORD appeared in to Moses was a thornbush, showing that God can manifest in the lowliest of things.
     
    soul man likes this.
  13. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    837
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Yes, very perceptive, but I don't think every reference to bush or thorns is intended to allude to, or elaborate on, the principle of the suffering Messiah. Isn't this the approach that Origen took in one of his three hermeneutical methods in interpreting Scripture. It can lead to very frivolous, haphazard and undisciplined results.
    Again, I accept your conclusion, but feel that your means to get there is rather precarious.
    It's too easy to make these allusions, therefore, I only affirm a shadow or type from the OT to the NT, if it is established by an inspired author (many are documented in the NT). Otherwise, the amount of permutations of interpretation would be unbridled and endless.
     
    soul man likes this.
  14. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    After the fall, why could humanity not keep the law (no one could),what was the cause? When we say "because they were disobedient" is true but what happened to them when they ate from the tree of good and evil. They received a root" it's a principal of God (everything has a root) what was it the root?
     
  15. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Remember Adam and Eve were not created without a spirit as far as we see in scripture. They were living souls with the ability to contain spirit (created to contain spirit), apparently because of the way scripture reads after the fall because man is triune now not in the beginning. Any thoughts?
     
  16. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I believe it goes to the root (inner knowledge), not necessarily an outer thing. Any symbolism has to be an inner work.
     
    Giuliano likes this.
  17. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    This is a great conversation because it spurs an individual on to revelation. The dividing of soul and Spirit, and looking for my salvation was what caused me to search the scriptures for exactly that. I could not divide soul and spirit in the scriptures. It seems like dividing comes easier now (soul and spirit) but there are things we may never know. But unless the Lord reveals whatever it is to a believer they will not know if it exsists or not!
     
    Giuliano likes this.
  18. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This I have learned! There are no grey areas in God everything is black and white. It may have to come to you but we do not have to speculate on the word of God.
     
  19. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,951
    Likes Received:
    8,568
    @soul man The word of God is indeed so searching. John 17.17; Hebrews 4.12.
     
    soul man likes this.
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    6,523
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What if these Laws were given to a humanity that was hopelessly ruined, but refused to accept that truth? And that God wanted people to see how deeply fallen in sin they are?

    Much love!
     
Loading...