The song of Mary- an unorthodox perspective

[Waiting on him]

There remains another unanswered question. What did John hear the bridegroom say?

 

[Waiting on him]

Well, it’s 6 am here. I have to work tonight. You think about it Johann. I’ll get back too you later.

 

[Johann]

There remains another unanswered question. What did John hear the bridegroom say?

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

The bridegroom (numphios). Predicate nominative without article. Both numphē (bride) and numphios are old and common words. Jesus will use this metaphor of himself as the Bridegroom (Mar_2:19) and Paul develops it (2Co_11:2; Eph_5:23-32) and so in Revelation (Rev_19:7; Rev_21:2). John is only like the paranymph (paranumphios) or “the friend of the bridegroom.” His office is to bring groom and bride together. So he stands expectant (hestēkōs, second perfect active participle of histēmi) and listens (akouōn, present active participle of akouō) with joy (rejoiceth greatly, charāi chairei, “with joy rejoices”) to the music of the bridegroom’s voice.

This does not remain unanswered---

John definitely puts an end to any sense of competition between himself and Jesus by placing himself in the position of the bridegroom's friend or "best man". Once the bridegroom and bride have been brought together, the "best man's" work is completed and he fades off the scene. How foolish it would be for the best man to attempt to upstage the bridegroom, even to the point of trying to take his place! That would be absurd! And that is John's point to his disciples. John hearing of the voice of Jesus gave him joy, joy filled to the brim. While he was still in his mother Elizabeth's womb, John had leaped for joy when he heard the sound of Jesus' mother Mary (Lk 1:41, 44), which reflects the fact that even before birth John was filled with the Holy Spirit (Lk 1:15) (So much for the argument that infants in utero are not human beings, even capable of emotional expression!) John the Baptist was content to be the voice announcing the Bridegroom Jesus to be the Word (Jn 1:23). In the same way he was also content to be be the witness pointing others to Jesus, Who was the Light



Joh_3:29. Ὁ ἔχων) He who hath, or whom the bride follows. All come to Jesus: hence it is clear, that Jesus is the Bridegroom. See the Song of Solomon.—φίλος, the friend) Dear to the Bridegroom, loving the Bridegroom. The derivation of John accords.[59] It is the part of a friend to rejoice,—ὁ ἐστηκώς, who standeth) as His attendant.—ἀκούων) hearing Him speaking with the bride, Joh_3:32; Joh_3:34, “What He hath seen and heard, that He testifieth;—He whom God hath sent, speaketh the words of God.” These two participles are part of the subject: the predicate is χαίρει, rejoiceth.—φωνήν, the voice) by which the Bridegroom testifies His presence, Joh_3:32. This voice sweetly attracts the bride.—ἡ χαρά, joy) without sadness and envy.

Firstly, I disagree on Is 7.14--that this is IS a messianic prophecy--Jesus Christ

Secondly--John sends (two of) his disciples as messengers to ask a question from Jesus: "Are you the one to come after me or shall we wait for another?" Jesus replied back to John through the messengers to take note of all the miraculous works he has done as described in Luke 7:22.--John heard the Kol/words of Christ

Lastly--if you want to dialogue I would suggest you "open up" with me as to what you believe stands written, so that we can share with each other the good news--and not in a question format--as if you "know" something I don't--and I am very suspicious of this method of yours, no offense.
I think Christians should stop playing games with each other, if you have something to share, then do so, but not through open and closed questions, I don't view this method as dialogue--but you "testing" me.

And frankly, I'm tired of being "tested" by men.
J.

 

[Waiting on him]

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

The bridegroom (numphios). Predicate nominative without article. Both numphē (bride) and numphios are old and common words. Jesus will use this metaphor of himself as the Bridegroom (Mar_2:19) and Paul develops it (2Co_11:2; Eph_5:23-32) and so in Revelation (Rev_19:7; Rev_21:2). John is only like the paranymph (paranumphios) or “the friend of the bridegroom.” His office is to bring groom and bride together. So he stands expectant (hestēkōs, second perfect active participle of histēmi) and listens (akouōn, present active participle of akouō) with joy (rejoiceth greatly, charāi chairei, “with joy rejoices”) to the music of the bridegroom’s voice.

This does not remain unanswered---

John definitely puts an end to any sense of competition between himself and Jesus by placing himself in the position of the bridegroom's friend or "best man". Once the bridegroom and bride have been brought together, the "best man's" work is completed and he fades off the scene. How foolish it would be for the best man to attempt to upstage the bridegroom, even to the point of trying to take his place! That would be absurd! And that is John's point to his disciples. John hearing of the voice of Jesus gave him joy, joy filled to the brim. While he was still in his mother Elizabeth's womb, John had leaped for joy when he heard the sound of Jesus' mother Mary (Lk 1:41, 44), which reflects the fact that even before birth John was filled with the Holy Spirit (Lk 1:15) (So much for the argument that infants in utero are not human beings, even capable of emotional expression!) John the Baptist was content to be the voice announcing the Bridegroom Jesus to be the Word (Jn 1:23). In the same way he was also content to be be the witness pointing others to Jesus, Who was the Light

Oh Johann, someone else spoke while Jesus was being baptized.. what was said?

 

[Waiting on him]

@Johann im attempting to give you an image of the first begotten man of the Father

As John states in his gospel. The beginning was when the light entered into the world, this all began with the Christ. There was no light/ truth prior too Jesus.

Do you believe this?

 

[Johann]

@Johann im attempting to give you an image of the first begotten man of the Father

As John states in his gospel. The beginning was when the light entered into the world, this all began with the Christ. There was no light/ truth prior too Jesus.

Do you believe this?

Luk 3:20 added this to them all, that he locked up John in prison.
Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
Luk 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

 

[Johann]

@Johann im attempting to give you an image of the first begotten man of the Father

As John states in his gospel. The beginning was when the light entered into the world, this all began with the Christ. There was no light/ truth prior too Jesus.

Do you believe this?

Now this is much better--Yes, I would concur--depends how you view Jesus as the "first begotten man"--was Christ a created being?

 

[Mr E]

Here a bone to chew on--why do you think we have two genealogies?

That of Matthew and Luke? Think Jewish and read with a Jewish mindset.

There is a very important reason we have two, but it's unlikely that you understand why. Two genealogies -- and two houses. Two branches of one tree.

 

[Johann]

There is a very important reason we have two, but it's unlikely that you understand why. Two genealogies -- and two houses. Two branches of one tree.

Give me your interpretation, I can read, even if it is lengthy

 

[Mr E]

But I shall disengage since it is painfully obvious you are casting doubts on my Bible as it stands written, Perfect Tense--and don't know how to rebut or refute the rabbis WITH Scriptures

I'm actually shining a light on the scriptures Johann. You just don't like it.

I show you things specific and explicit and you equivocate and say it doesn't mean what it says. All I'm doing is casting shadows on your beliefs. You do realize that you've adopted certain beliefs about things that don't actually align with those scriptures you profess to believe in. I guarantee you do not agree with scriptures, and I've already proven as much here as it relates to the father of Jesus that scripture identifies explicitly as Joseph. It's not me you are disagreeing with.

I do understand how threatening "ideas" can be to someone who is close-minded and hard-hearted. You'd much prefer to hunker down in the comfort of some holy huddle where such things as 'questions and ideas' are not permitted to be voiced. Try a church, a synagogue or maybe a college campus.... but an online forum is engineered specifically to facilitate discussion of subjects like this. You shouldn't feel frightened. Neither should you continue on like a forum bully-- thinking that you need to whack-a-mole every time something pops up that you don't agree with. Just move on. Be true to your word if you are capable, and disengage.

 

[Johann]

I'm actually shining a light on the scriptures Johann. You just don't like it.

I show you things specific and explicit and you equivocate and say it doesn't mean what it says. All I'm doing is casting shadows on your beliefs. You do realize that you've adopted certain beliefs about things that don't actually align with those scriptures you profess to believe in. I guarantee you do not agree with scriptures, and I've already proven as much here as it relates to the father of Jesus that scripture identifies explicitly as Joseph. It's not me you are disagreeing with.

I do understand how threatening "ideas" can be to someone who is close-minded and hard-hearted. You'd much prefer to hunker down in the comfort of some holy huddle where such things as 'questions and ideas' are not permitted to be voiced. Try a church, a synagogue or maybe a college campus.... but an online forum is engineered specifically to facilitate discussion of subjects like this. You shouldn't feel frightened. Neither should you continue on like a forum bully-- thinking that you need to whack-a-mole every time something pops up that you don't agree with. Just move on. Be true to your word if you are capable, and disengage.

Yes, I'm moving on--you are getting too personal and you don't know me.

 

[Mr E]

Isaiah 53--who is the suffering servant?
YisraEL or Yeshua?

I'd like to hear your answer on this.
Shalom

I didn't mean to skip past this.

There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a fence around it, dug a pit for its winepress, and built a watchtower. Then he leased it to tenant farmers and went on a journey. When the harvest time was near, he sent his slaves to the tenants to collect his portion of the crop. But the tenants seized his slaves, beat one, killed another, and stoned another. Again he sent other slaves, more than the first, and they treated them the same way. Finally he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and get his inheritance!’ So they seized him, threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him. Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” They said to him, “He will utterly destroy those evil men! Then he will lease the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his portion at the harvest.”

Who is the suffering servant?

A. Israel
B. Jesus
C. All of the above.

Then Jesus spoke out again, “I am the light of the world! The one who follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”

“You are from below; I am from above. You people are from this world; I am not from this world."


Who is a servant of God? --- the one who hears His voice in spirit and in spirit and truth answers His call and says- 'Here am I send me.'

And that one will surely suffer the same fate as all those who have similarly been sent in service to the King.

 

[marks]

Yes, I'm moving on--you are getting too personal and you don't know me.

Yeah. It becomes a complete work of fiction.

Good morning, brother!

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

Yeah. It becomes a complete work of fiction.

Good morning, brother!

Much love!

I don’t think it’s a work of fiction at all. I believe it as written. Fourteen generations from the exile, father to son, to the messiah.

Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

I’m happy to use your definition of genesis or begat.

 

[Johann]

Yeah. It becomes a complete work of fiction.

Good morning, brother!

Much love!

Good morning brother.
5.29 PM here.
J.

 

[marks]

Good morning brother.
5.29 PM here.
J.

I realized that as I wrote it . . . Good evening!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don’t think it’s a work of fiction at all.

Your fiction about Johann.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Who is a servant of God? --- the one who hears His voice in spirit and in spirit and truth answers His call and says- 'Here am I send me.'

And that one will surely suffer the same fate as all those who have similarly been sent in service to the King.

Send me makes me consider 1 Kings 22:19-23:
Micaiah “Therefore hear the word of the LORD.
I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right and on his left.
The LORD said, “who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?”
And one said this while another said that.
Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said “I will entice him.”
The LORD said to him “How?”
“I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. (So they fall?)
Then the LORD said “You are to entice (him) and also prevail.”
Go and do so!
Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you.” …proclaimed disaster “so that they fall?” Not a bad thing? Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

A few questions: what of …they whom I did not send speak lies against Me?

What of I will give you a new spirit; not a spirit (the world gives unto you) unto disaster (bondage, lies) but a spirit of love and of power and of a sound mind?

What of “and not even the gates of hell (disaster?) will be able to prevail against the foundation of Christ?

What is your input on who is the LORD in the above passage on “send me” “I will be a lie in their mouth”; the LORD sitting on his throne with the host of heaven standing before him: on his right and on his left?

 

[marks]

Yes, I'm moving on--you are getting too personal and you don't know me.

I've sometimes wondered if that's why some members get so personal like that, to get rid of inconvenient posters. Bully them off the thread. That's how it seems a lot of the time!

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

@Johann @marks I hate too hear you poor abused victims have been bullied.