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Featured The Star of Bethlehem ?

Discussion in 'Christianity & Science Forum' started by Miss Hepburn, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    @BG, Matthew 2:9 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was".

    according to the free dictionary, and many other, which states the same. it gives this meaning, Stand is usually a verb. Its past tense and -ed participle is stood. 1. saying where someone is. When you are standing somewhere, your body is upright, your legs are straight, and your weight is supported by your feet. now a bible dictionary definition.

    where in combination with stood over, is interesting. According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, STOOD OVER, For OVER, OVER AGAINST.

    Here is a classic example of this, Mark 15:39 "And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God". now the Lord Jesus was physically above the centurion, (on the cross). but the scripture states that the centurion, which stood over ...... against. against changed the meaning of STOOD over. what the scripture is saying, the centurion was to watch him, that nobody released him, and that he did not come down from the cross himself. stood over against, here, it is Location, not direction. please read Gill's commentary on the verse.

    so, standing or stood over is not directional of up or down as here in Matthew 2:9, but when used with "WHERE", they are identifying location and not direction.

    I hope this helped in your understanding.

    P.S. the saw "HIS" star in the East.
    sure, if I was in the east when I told you, (smile).

    Peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
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  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    @BG, sorry I didn't answer your question, I been learning a new bible program for my android tablet. who say you can't teach an old dog new tricks... :p.

    now to the business at hand, this is my belief as to who the Star is. remember I said read Luke, but I want you to start at verse 8. "HIS" angel. Luke 2:8-14 "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men".

    BG, did you notice that it was ONE angel who "CAME UPON THEM". not above them, but came upon them. and this ONE Angel was a "indicator/sign" to them, as to where, and what to look for concering the babe that was born. His Star is the angel who appeared to the wise men in the east and told them where the child was two to three years ago. see, angels can appear at will, and stand, or as in this case indicate where the child, not the babe, but the child was. listen, Matthew 2:9 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was". notice "WENT BEFORE" not ABOVE them. now, back to the shepherds, how did they know where to find the babe in all of Bethlehem. remember there was a lots of babies there. because king Herod killed all of them there two years and under. so how did the shepherds find this one babe in all of Bethlehem. answer divine guidance. if God sent an angel then, it was the angel who guided them, as well as the wise men.

    so again, this account is clearly the account in Revelation chapter 12.

    Peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
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  3. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your message. I find using a iPad for the Site is hard work and I often make more mistakes than when on a laptop. Well done...I hate learning new internet things..my brain is slower these days ha!

    Now the message...I thought I had been around many blocks in my many years with the Lord...but I have never come across your revelation before.
    In your first couple of posts on the star I didn't think I would agree...but on reading tonight...I can see it has great merit!! Thank you. I like new challenging thoughts. :)

    I must get to bed...but my first thought is...if indeed the sign /star was an angel...why does the word not just say that...why mess about or be misleading by saying star?

    I though that somewhere I read, years ago..maybe Readers Digest..or something. That they had a program where they could spin the galaxy , stars etc backward..and actually see where all the stars were "way back when"..
    I remember reading where they found the 20 mins when the sun stood still for Joshua, and also the star ( stars) that made it look like a bigger star etc.
    Maybe this was just some story..I can't remember if it was verified etc

    Anyway, I like your revelation...was it from God's mouth to your ear..or a revelation via another brother.
    I remember being told by a good old preacher..."Once I say something that witnesses to your inner man..then it is no longer mine, but you have now made it yours."
    So much that has been revealed to me, has not only come from the Lord...but much more has come via the anointed word of another...which cause the "babe" within me..to leap for joy. :)
    Must put this head to bed now.
    Many blessings.....H
     
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  4. Miss Hepburn

    Miss Hepburn Well-Known Member

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    All this is covered in The Star of Bethlehem movie on youtube...it is the program that allowed NASA to throw a satellite out into space
    to land on a comet 10 yrs in the future traveling 84,000 mph...same one. ☺
     
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  5. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear...that was a whoops on my part...I bookmarked the video...but with all family arriving for Christmas I forgot to watch it!! It just slipped right out of my mind,( not that it would be hard to do..the mind being very small! :) )
    I am now making a note to remind me to watch it!
    Thanks
     
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  6. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, thanks BG. I really had my mind and heart made for sure when the Lord Jesus revealed to me "HIS" Star. the term star can be used metaphorically of a messenger, Good or Evil, angelic, or human. in Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". here "HIS" angel. and Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". that term "HIS" made the connection fore me.

    and I agree with you on, "I remember being told by a good old preacher..."Once I say something that witnesses to your inner man..then it is no longer mine, but you have now made it yours." God search the heart on men and women.

    peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
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  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    @BG, here are some food to chew on. I was re-reading about Abraham 3 wives, and came across this verse, Hagar and Ishmael are cast forth. Genesis 21:15 "And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.”.

    The key words here is “down over”…against. simply, She was not standing, but sitting. down over is the opposite of stood over, just as what the centurion was doing at the cross of Jesus. Watch the difference . Mark 15:39 "And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God”. now back to Matthew 2:9 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was”. other words the angel was standing at the house “where” the young child was at, in the house.


    This scripture in Genesis 21:16 just confirm what I was saying about “Stood over”. the dictionary definition as stated, 1. saying where someone is. When you are standing somewhere, your body is upright, your legs are straight, and your weight is supported by your feet. this definition is very important. Hagar was sitting down, not standing.

    So with Hagar, she was sitting, her legs and body was in a none standing, or upright position, hence the term “DOWN OVER”, instead of “STOOD OVER”. so the angel in the wise men case, was indicating “WHERE” the child was by "STANDING OVER" Where. the angel was "standing" where the child was in the house.

    Hoped this help.

    Peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
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  9. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

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    I have that book and also Bullinger's Witness of the Stars. The case was made from those authors about a new star in Coma the infant next to Virgo. The declination of the constellation was such that in Christ's time it would have shown overhead (planets are not vertical, or at their zenith, over Bethlehem). The story goes that the prophet Daniel, while in Babylon, taught them that a new star would appear at Messiah's birth in Coma. These wise men in later generations were into Zoroastrianism and remembered that prophecy. Apocryphal books make it no secret that the sons of Abraham (and even before) were into the stars. Another apocryphal story tells how in Egypt Joseph called his brother Benjamin to calculate certain stellar positions to which Benjamin's eyes were opened and saw that the stars' positions shown he was indeed Joseph (c.f. to his dream and the fact the bible says he had a cup for divination). Apparently, Rachael's sons had more of an understanding of this rather than the other brothers. Either that, or since Benjamin was his actual brother (as opposed to half brother) maybe singled him out -- not sure.

    Anyway, back to the story that these authors relate was that the wise men stopped at a well for water and when the star was reflecting in the well, they knew of its zenith (like a primitive sextant) and thus rejoiced. Notice in Matthew's account they were told that Messiah was born in Bethlehem, then after that the star appears (again) and stands over where the child was, thus confirming the location.

    The problem I have with planets, is just that -- plural. They not a single star (such as prophesied in Numbers). There's one King, One Lord and one Star. And planets can be open to a wide array of interpretation which tell me (and the wise men) nothing. A nova appearing in Coma would be one "star", perhaps something specific that Daniel prophesied, and we know how they can fluctuate in brightness. A well is deep enough to show the location of the zenith to within a fraction of a degree. Being in the area, they could then find out where the child was. As old as the theory is, IF I am to adopt a natural theory, then this would be the one. The other possibility is supernatural, but the problem I have with that isn't that it was impossible, but rather this star was not accurate enough to signal the exact location of the child if they had to ask for directions.

    Speaking of nova, look at the constellation Cygnus. There was one a few years back in the constellation nearby called Delphinus that I viewed (it's creepy to see a new star where there is none on the star map!). In something like 2022, another nova is predicted to occur in Cygnus the swan. It's supposed to go up to a magnitude 2 star which is layman's terms, is every bit as bright as the other stars in that constellation. If we look at Seiss' book, we see that has to do with end times.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  10. Miss Hepburn

    Miss Hepburn Well-Known Member

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    Well, once everyone sees the planets and stars as they were when Jesus was born
    According to J. Kepler...his equations used today to fling a probe out into space for 10 yrs to land on a comet going 84k mph...maybe some ideas and concepts will be blown
    as to what the brightest thing in the sky for days was....long enough for the Magi to travel 700 miles and still follow.

    Talking about the movie The Star of Bethlehem on YouTube.
     
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  11. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    One does not need to resort to the apocryphal books to see that the zodiac is a creation, for the purpose of revelation, from God. That a 'star' existed which brought the attention to the magi, is only half the story. If there isn't a revelation given with it, what matter would a new star cause the magi to leave their lands knowing they were taking gifts to a Divine King?

    Stranger
     
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  12. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

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    Nobody's resorting to apocryphal books. They are an additional witness shedding light from another slant. For example, we know of the "star" prophecy in Numbers. Daniel knew about it, too. The apocryphal story just makes the connection verifying what the bible already said by putting a historical event to them. Thus, such a story answers why the wise men knew of the star. The bible implies it but does not say it directly. If a historical account in an apocryphal work does not agree with the bible, we can dismiss it (I find they mostly agree, though). However, it's interesting to see what has been written besides the scriptures that shed light on the interpretation of the scriptures, namely by the Jews.
     
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  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The star did not move correctly to be natural.

    Remember in the Bible star was also used to refer to Angels.

    That was an angel. Not soon before and not seen after.
     
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  14. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

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    This is very interesting. Thanks for the insight. Ive heard of that movie before. I need to watch it.
     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I've not seen that one. Sometimes Hollywood takes liberties with historical facts...
     
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  16. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

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    Very true. Noah's ark was one of them.
     
  17. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, Hollywood's aim is likely to be something other than the true message of the Bible.
     
  18. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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