The Tabernacle Experience..Is it really new?

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear L,

Nice post...I would like to hear more.

Dear A,

It is an actual experience. Talking down something that is actually from God is not good. As a Christian it would be better to take the Gamaliel approach and wait and see what happens. I do not know if you are Spirit filled with the evidence of speaking in other tongues but becoming one with God is similar to that but just to a greater degree. You speak as one who believes he has all his ducks in a row but on the Tabernacles question, at least, you don't understand yet what I am talking about.

I have not used vague speech to present this truth to you or anyone else but rather I have shown the way to find it so that those who want more of God can do so. It is not my aim to spoon feed this blessing to people for that would only continue their dependence upon a person. I wish to help people be free of dependence upon anyone else but God through His Holy Spirit.

The Tabernacle experience is oneness with God and it is characterized by "Love of the Spirit" which I term Divine Love. It is an actual experience just like salvation and Holy Spirit baptism is. If you want to know "what it is" take the red pill and learn all about it on my site at www.thefinalfeast.com where I go into some depth on the subject.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[logabe]

It is the teaching that the 'sons of God' will be made manifest to the world and will present a super race of Christians, if you will,
which accomplishes greater miracles than Jesus. They believe they will be made perfect without death...which is totally contrary
to scripture as scripture states :"It is appointed to man to die once"...everyone dies...and no one is made perfect. Even Jesus had
a resurrection body but these false prophets and teachers believe they are going to be more than Jesus.

Don't laugh...it is actually a very dangerous and seductive doctrine of devils...part of the falling away and while they are falling away
and pulling others into their whirlpool of deception, people are dying for lack of true knowledge and the true gospel.

They are presenting a false Jesus or what is sometimes called 'another Jesus' and as you may have noted, anyone who points out
the error and false doctrine, is immediately attacked and told they don't have the Holy Spirit or they do not love God or they are not
seeking God. They may actually believe this as they are convinced, by seducing spirits, they they alone have the true doctrine or
mystical teachings of scripture which hide behind the other scripture that regular Joes hold. You have to be special to see the real
thing...which is actually a lie...and this is where I get off that merry go round.

Doctrine is actually something that Justin himself abides by...albeit a false doctrine.

Doctrine is this:

a : something that is taught

b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma

c : a principle of law established through past decisions

d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

e : a military principle or set of strategies

Doctrine can be any set of beliefs. In fact. The Tabernacle Experience is actually a FALSE doctrine. You see, a person cannot get away
from the word doctrine.

As Overcomers... we must understand that we are no better than anyone else, or
we will disqualify ourselves from experiencing the historical Tabernacles. When
I quoted Jesus in John 14:12, it was to build hope inside of the reader and to try
and motivate him/her to see God has more than just this Age.

We will never be greater than Jesus Christ... he will always be the Head, but we
can be his body, if we experience the feast of Passover and then the Pentecost
which eventually brings us by faith into the experience of Tabernacles personally
in this present Age.

Passover saves your spirit, Pentecost saves your soul, and Tabernacles saves
your body. At Passover you simply believe the message that God gave of his son,
but at the feast of Pentecost you receive the Holy Ghost and you begin to learn
obedience through the things you suffer by walking in the Spirit.

Your Pentecost experience correlates with the children of Israel's journey in the
wilderness and your journey in this life. Pentecost is not only to teach you obedience,
but also to give you spiritual ears and eyes so you can mature into the things of God.
As you mature God begins to give you more responsibility and you begin to come
into alignment with his purpose and plan.

In essence, you come into agreement with your God, because as you grow, his desire
becomes your desire. You are coming into the alignment of the New Covenant, which
is, God writing His Laws into your heart, and you becoming one with Him (Heb. 8:10-12).

In other words, you are experiencing Tabernacles by faith in believing one day God will
come and change our bodies into His Glorious body, and we will have the ability to go
forth and complete the "Great Commission" (Matt. 28:19-20). The difference between
the feast of Pentecost and the feast of Tabernacles is you only receive an earnest of the
Spirit @ Pentecost (2nd Cor. 5:5), but @ Tabernacles you will get the fullness of the Spirit.

It will be God doing the works and not us. We will be along for the ride, but ultimately, I and
my Father will be one. We will be just like Jesus (1st John 3:2), and because we took the
proper measures and opportunity to learn His Ways, God will choose us in the Tabernacle
Age to come, to bring about the "Restoration of all Things", spoken of by the holy prophets
since the world began (Acts 3:21).

God is restoring the feast of Tabernacles in these last days. We are experiencing Tabernacles
in a limited measure, because we are still mortal and we still have sin (lawlessness) in our
members, but your body (Tabernacle) has hope, because Jesus died and was buried, and
he rose from the dead. Now, we can have hope in him that one day God will redeem our body
back to where it was before Adam sinned (Rom. 8:23).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear L,

I think you have some good things to say.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

Justin denies Jesus is God. That's enough for me.

I go by the Word of God...not anyone else's word. I do not go by tradition...but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Two nights ago, after prayer, I believe God revealed to me the goings on behind Justin's experience...the depth and the very dangerous evil of it.

Since then, Justin has finally come out of this shadows and admitted that he has forsaken the truth and does not believe in God the Father, God the
Son and God the Holy Spirit.


It is a deception and is spreading. The Bible is the only source for truth we have.

The only possible way for someone to believe these lies, is if they have given their ear to demonic spirits teaching through the fleshly lips that have
given themselves over because they are deceived. Itching ears and another Jesus...not the Jesus of scripture...another one that they say is not God.

In essence, you come into agreement with your God, because as you grow, his desire
becomes your desire. You are coming into the alignment of the New Covenant, which
is, God writing His Laws into your heart, and you becoming one with Him (Heb. 8:10-12).

Interesting take on scripture.

The truth is that I came into agreement with God the moment I accepted His Son as my Savior. My position in Christ became immediate...my experience
is not what saves me.

You folk really need to get back to the Bible. Whatever spirit is instructing you, it is not the Holy Spirit.

 

[veteran]

In Justin's own words:

I feel lead by the Spirit to lay out the framework for what needs to be done to help bring about the restoration of the spiritual fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. This is by no means an exhaustive treatise on this subject but rather just a broad sketch of the steps that I believe we should take to accomplish this goal.
To begin with, the reason why we, as ministers of the full gospel of Christ, need to work towards the restoration of this feast is that this third and final spiritual experience is necessary to bring about the perfection of the saints.

Justin FEELS led. He FEELS led to usher in the perfection of the saints through a mystical experience.

And this from his website:

To reiterate, the main points of our plan to restore the spiritual fulfillment of the third and final Feast of Tabernacles to the Body of Christ are as follows.
1. We will concentrate on evangelism of the un-churched so that will can write this vision on a blank canvas.
2. We will restore the office and authority of the apostle and prophet to our movement.
3. We will teach the restored first century Tabernacle theology to our new converts
4. We will seek converts who currently practice or are from polygnist families near areas of conflict where the normative church is not as active.
5. We will seek to make disciples of young adults ages 18 to 25 years old to form the core of our first wave of Tabernacles saints. When they have been taught and become disciples we will send them out as God leads to raise up a second wave of Tabernacle saints.
6. We will seek to keep this movement decentralized so that if one part is hindered the rest of it can continue to function and carry on our vision.

Quite a plan. Number 3 is particularly enlightening.

Perhaps he would also like to rewrite the gospels and the New Testament.

It's an attempt at replacing... Bible Scripture... with something else.

I've already warned others here about this Tabernacle studies junk being tied to practices of occult mysticism.
Question: What ancient ideas does the mystical Tabernacle experience theology originate from???


Here's an excerpt from a modern-day pagan 'mystery school' organization called The Rosicrucian Order, from their booklet Mastery of Life, (by the Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, a.k.a. The Rosicrucian Order, or AMORC). (I have put key terms and phrases in bold)

"The Roscrucian path incorporates both metaphysics and mysticism. Metaphysics is that which falls beyond the five physical senses; for example, intuition, visualization, and healing techniques. Mysticism is simply the process by which you may eventually experience direct, conscious union with the Absolute, Divine Mind, Universal Intelligence, or what some Rosicrucian students call the God of their hearts. This is not done by adhering to specific tenets or beliefs, but by learning and applying natural laws which, over time, allow you to experience the Divine or Cosmic Consciousness. The Rosicrucian Order does not attempt to define the nature of the deity. Rather, you will remain free to discover this through your own reflections. This same approach applies to everything that is presented through the Rosicrucian teachings.

We don't expect you to accept anything on faith. We want you to think for yourself, to learn how to draw upon the higher knowledge already within you. What we provide are simply the tools to enable you to accomplish this. The Roscrucian teachings contain practical exercises and experiments that allow you to demonstrate for yourself the principles presented in the lessons and to access your own source of inner wisdom and guidance. As you do this, you'll begin developing natural abilities that may have been left dormant throughout your life. Almost immediately you'll begin to see your life in a different light."

----------------------------------------

"path" suggests eastern mystical experience paths, meditation, chanting vowels, burning incense, setting the tone for direct mystical experience, like what was done in ancient pagan temple practices.

That which fallse beyond the five physical senses in their respect refers to the spiritual realm.

"process" refers to the ancient pagan practice that one must be enlightened gradually on the path to perfection (i.e., becoming a god, reaching the eastern religious mystical state of Nirvana, etc., as Buddhists claim Buddha achieved).

"God of their hearts" - makes their Divine, or Absolute to be a 'force', and not The Father YHVH and His Son Jesus Christ. And thus God's warning about the false one of Daniel that would honor "the God of forces", and not any god his forefathers knew (Dan.11:35-39).

"applying natural laws" - their idea of natural law includes the laws of the Heavenly realm the pagans practiced which our Heavenly Father told His people to not delve into. This involved casting of spells, incantations, sorcery, witchcraft, ceremonial symbolic arrangements to mimic God's realm that He did not impart, etc.

"experience the Divine" - their meaning is absence of faith and belief, but direct experience of God instead. That idea is equivalent of thinking to enter upon God's Throne without His permission, and be God in His Place. Who first tried to do that? Lucifer himself.


What the practice of mysticism is really about is the attempt to penetrate into God's realm while here on earth, at one's own will, and have a willful spiritual experience of His realm, without God's permission. It's kind of like intentionally... opening God's bathroom door and enter into His direct privacy. Of course He will not allow them to do that. Instead, a different... door will be allowed to them, and thus they will see their lives in "a different light" indeed, the light of Lucifer! (which is actually total darkness).

That kind of mystical practice has been going on for thousands of years now. Truly as Solomon once said, 'there is no new thing under the sun'. It just comes wrapped up in newer packages.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus was born GOD... Jesus was not born GOD, but became GOD through obedience... hmmmm... this is very interesting... I think this is the crux of the whole matter...

The former: one is born GOD who is continually perfected through sanctification by faith
The latter: one becomes GOD through the obedience of experiencing (abiding in) GOD until the fullness of GOD is reached.

Two spirits...

The former: In this you know the spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ (the eternal word) having come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2
The latter: And the serpent said unto the woman, Truly, you won't die, because God knows that in the day you eat, your eyes will be opened, and you will become as GOD, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5

just thinking out loud here...

 

[daq]

It's an attempt at replacing... Bible Scripture... with something else.

I've already warned others here about this Tabernacle studies junk being tied to practices of occult mysticism.

Question: What ancient ideas does the mystical Tabernacle experience theology originate from???


Here's an excerpt from a modern-day pagan 'mystery school' organization called The Rosicrucian Order, from their booklet Mastery of Life, (by the Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, a.k.a. The Rosicrucian Order, or AMORC). (I have put key terms and phrases in bold)

"The Roscrucian path incorporates both metaphysics and mysticism. Metaphysics is that which falls beyond the five physical senses; for example, intuition, visualization, and healing techniques. Mysticism is simply the process by which you may eventually experience direct, conscious union with the Absolute, Divine Mind, Universal Intelligence, or what some Rosicrucian students call the God of their hearts. This is not done by adhering to specific tenets or beliefs, but by learning and applying natural laws which, over time, allow you to experience the Divine or Cosmic Consciousness. The Rosicrucian Order does not attempt to define the nature of the deity. Rather, you will remain free to discover this through your own reflections. This same approach applies to everything that is presented through the Rosicrucian teachings.

We don't expect you to accept anything on faith. We want you to think for yourself, to learn how to draw upon the higher knowledge already within you. What we provide are simply the tools to enable you to accomplish this. The Roscrucian teachings contain practical exercises and experiments that allow you to demonstrate for yourself the principles presented in the lessons and to access your own source of inner wisdom and guidance. As you do this, you'll begin developing natural abilities that may have been left dormant throughout your life. Almost immediately you'll begin to see your life in a different light."

----------------------------------------

"path" suggests eastern mystical experience paths, meditation, chanting vowels, burning incense, setting the tone for direct mystical experience, like what was done in ancient pagan temple practices.

That which fallse beyond the five physical senses in their respect refers to the spiritual realm.

"process" refers to the ancient pagan practice that one must be enlightened gradually on the path to perfection (i.e., becoming a god, reaching the eastern religious mystical state of Nirvana, etc., as Buddhists claim Buddha achieved).

"God of their hearts" - makes their Divine, or Absolute to be a 'force', and not The Father YHVH and His Son Jesus Christ. And thus God's warning about the false one of Daniel that would honor "the God of forces", and not any god his forefathers knew (Dan.11:35-39).

"applying natural laws" - their idea of natural law includes the laws of the Heavenly realm the pagans practiced which our Heavenly Father told His people to not delve into. This involved casting of spells, incantations, sorcery, witchcraft, ceremonial symbolic arrangements to mimic God's realm that He did not impart, etc.

"experience the Divine" - their meaning is absence of faith and belief, but direct experience of God instead. That idea is equivalent of thinking to enter upon God's Throne without His permission, and be God in His Place. Who first tried to do that? Lucifer himself.


What the practice of mysticism is really about is the attempt to penetrate into God's realm while here on earth, at one's own will, and have a willful spiritual experience of His realm, without God's permission. It's kind of like intentionally... opening God's bathroom door and enter into His direct privacy. Of course He will not allow them to do that. Instead, a different... door will be allowed to them, and thus they will see their lives in "a different light" indeed, the light of Lucifer! (which is actually total darkness).

That kind of mystical practice has been going on for thousands of years now. Truly as Solomon once said, 'there is no new thing under the sun'. It just comes wrapped up in newer packages.

So this is what you were trying to pin me with in the other thread veteran?
Shame on you for your slander of Torah, Leviticus, and the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua. :)

 

[Niki]

Veteran:

Question: What ancient ideas does the mystical Tabernacle experience theology originate from???

Yeah...I have not had the time (swamped with work but in a good way) to post historical evidence of the similarities but that was my original intention with this thread...not e the title...Is it really new?

Well, no, as you state, it is not new. Just wickedness running in circles in the vain imaginings of human beings who in their ignorance and ginormous egoes
believe that somehow they can attain a state like God Himself.

Did you notice (somewhere round these parts) that the end of the Tabernacle Experience, according to Justin's website, is the people having having had this
experience become the manifest sons of God? That's an eye opener, but as scripture states let those with ears to hear, hear...And he said to them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 4:9

That kind of mystical practice has been going on for thousands of years now. Truly as Solomon once said, 'there is no new thing under the sun'. It just comes wrapped up in newer packages.

Yeah...I've quoted this from Solomon several times myself in these forums in regard to this demonic experience.

Yup.

Jesus was born GOD... Jesus was not born GOD, but became GOD through obedience... hmmmm... this is very interesting... I think this is the crux of the whole matter...

The former: one is born GOD who is continually perfected through sanctification by faith
The latter: one becomes GOD through the obedience of experiencing (abiding in) GOD until the fullness of GOD is reached.

Two spirits...

The former: In this you know the spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ (the eternal word) having come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2
The latter: And the serpent said unto the woman, Truly, you won't die, because God knows that in the day you eat, your eyes will be opened, and you will become as GOD, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5

just thinking out loud here...

Some good critical thinking here.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

You are way out of line here. The problem with your judgement is that it is your judgement. When Christ Judged it was righteous because he did not do it of himself but rather simply allowed God to make the judgement through Him. I do not hear my Fathers voice in what you write.

Sincerely,

Justin

 

[daq]

Dear V,

You are way out of line here. The problem with your judgement is that it is your judgement. When Christ Judged it was righteous because he did not do it of himself but rather simply allowed God to make the judgement through Him. I do not hear my Fathers voice in what you write.

Sincerely,

Justin

Likewise his statement is in direct contradiction to the Scripture and comes from his own master of his own mind. This he apparently does because he himself is fearful of entering into the holy Presence of the holy Father by the Blood of the Lamb, Christ Yeshua. Moreover, it is not enough for him to keep himself from entering into the Light which is Christ Yeshua; he must likewise keep others from entering because it would otherwise leave him empty and alone in the outer darkness where he now subsists. Therefore he seeks to defame, slander, and assassinate the character of any other person which he deems to be a threat to his flesh minded theology:

That idea is equivalent of thinking to enter upon God's Throne without His permission, and be God in His Place. Who first tried to do that? Lucifer himself.


What the practice of mysticism is really about is the attempt to penetrate into God's realm while here on earth, at one's own will, and have a willful spiritual experience of His realm, without God's permission. It's kind of like intentionally... opening God's bathroom door and enter into His direct privacy. Of course He will not allow them to do that. Instead, a different... door will be allowed to them, and thus they will see their lives in "a different light" indeed, the light of Lucifer! (which is actually total darkness).

The Epistle to the Hebrews makes it clear that by the Blood of Yeshua we now have access to the Holiest Place and Throne of God. To accuse someone of being like Lucifer just because he or she desires a closer communion with the Creator, God the Father, is flat out evil and as Justin said; way out of line.

Hebrews 4:13-16 KJV
13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 10:19-22 KJV
19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21. And having an high priest over the house of God;
22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Fearfulness of the Light of the Truth does not give one the right to devour his brother with false accusations.

Revelation 21:7-8 KJV
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Veteran:


Yeah...I have not had the time (swamped with work but in a good way) to post historical evidence of the similarities but that was my original intention with this thread...not e the title...Is it really new?

Well, no, as you state, it is not new. Just wickedness running in circles in the vain imaginings of human beings who in their ignorance and ginormous egoes
believe that somehow they can attain a state like God Himself.

Did you notice (somewhere round these parts) that the end of the Tabernacle Experience, according to Justin's website, is the people having having had this
experience become the manifest sons of God? That's an eye opener, but as scripture states let those with ears to hear, hear...And he said to them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 4:9


Yeah...I've quoted this from Solomon several times myself in these forums in regard to this demonic experience.

Yup.



Some good critical thinking here.

This is the context of Mark 4:9 which you have quoted:

Mark 4:2-15 KJV
2. And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
3. Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4. And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6. But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
8. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
9. And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12. That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
13. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14. The sower soweth the word.
15. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Therefore "the fowls of the air" (unclean birds of Torah) are the Wicked one, (Matthew 13:19) the Devil, (Luke 8:12) and Satan.

Daniel 7:2-8 LXX Septuagint (Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851)
2. I Daniel beheld, and, lo, the four winds of heaven blew violently upon the great sea.
3. And there came up four great beasts out of the sea, differing from one another.
4. The first was as a lioness, and her wings as an eagle’s; I beheld until her wings were plucked, and she was lifted off from the earth, and she stood on human feet, and a man’s heart was given to her.
5. And, behold, a second beast like a bear, and it supported itself on one side, and there were three ribs in its mouth, between its teeth: and thus they said to it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6. After this one I looked, and behold another wild beast as a leopard, and it had four wings of a bird upon it: and the wild beast had four heads, and power was given to it.
7. After this one I looked, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong, and its teeth were of iron; devouring and crushing to atoms, and it trampled the remainder with its feet: and it was altogether different from the beasts that were before it; and it had ten hours.
8. I noticed his horns, and behold, another little horn came up in the midst of them, and before it three of the former horns were rooted out: and, behold, there were eyes as the eyes of a man in this horn, and a mouth speaking great things.
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Daniel/index.htm

Proverbs 30:11-17 KJV
11. There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12. There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13. There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [iron] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
15. The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
16. The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
17. The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

Revelation 13:6-9 KJV
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9. If any man have an ear, let him hear.

She that hath two ears buy a sword; he that hath an ear to hear, let him hear! :lol:

 

[Niki]

So Daq, do you agree with the Tabernacle experience? Have you checked out that website? Do you really understand about Justin...although I see he is not longer able to respond,
do you know he has stated that Jesus is not God? Do you agree with that?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So Daq, do you agree with the Tabernacle experience? Have you checked out that website? Do you really understand about Justin...although I see he is not longer able to respond,
do you know he has stated that Jesus is not God? Do you agree with that?

If I may...

I personally don't agree with Justin's view that Jesus became GOD, but I do respect his desire to know the spirit behind the letter of doctrine and law. I sincerely wish we could have had a more civil conversation to mutually explore these things together. Unfortunately, IMO he was treated like a demon by some, which kind of discouraged open discourse. I can't blame him for leaving. Some may feel vindicated, but I think we have all lost because he actually did have something good to share (as we also do) whether it was perfect, or not. Rather than feeling threatened by his belief that Jesus was not born GOD, I would have really liked to explore that with him to fully understand the issue and how it affects one's doctrines. Now I can't.

 

[veteran]

There's still other members here that also don't believe our Lord Jesus was GOD either (I'm not one of those), so that's not really the issue with Justin, the issue was the Tabernacle cult he was pushing.

 

[daq]

So Daq, do you agree with the Tabernacle experience? Have you checked out that website? Do you really understand about Justin...although I see he is not longer able to respond,
do you know he has stated that Jesus is not God? Do you agree with that?

I truly have no clue what the "Tabernacle Experience" from Justin's perspective or website concerns, (I have not been there) but I do know what the Scripture teaches concerning Jerusalem of above in that she is the covenant "mother" of all who partake in the New Covenant as written in Galatians 4:26-27 which quotes, (v.27) directly from Isaiah 54:1-3.

Galatians 4:22-27 KJV
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Isaiah 54:1-3 KJV
1. Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.
2. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3. For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Does Sarah the wife of Abraham, an allegory of the covenant and Jerusalem of above, sound like a "Tabernacle" to you when the Scripture mentions a TENT, and CURTAINS, and CORDS, and TENT STAKES in the Isaiah passage which Paul quotes from above? Moreover these things above are in addition to what is written concerning mount Horeb the invisible mountain of God, mount Zion, the city of the living God, and the heavenly Jerusalem which are found in Hebrews 12. However, as you say, Justin appears not to be here any longer so there is no need to go into what he believes. As for the rest of your comments will you now turn your interrogation tactics toward me? Why do you not judge yourself instead of your neighbor? Buy your own sword if you have too many ears, eyes, hands, or feet running swiftly into mischief; I am not the divider of your house anthropon man. :)

 

[Niki]

I truly have no clue what the "Tabernacle Experience" from Justin's perspective or website concerns, (I have not been there) but I do know what the Scripture teaches concerning Jerusalem of above in that she is the covenant "mother" of all who partake in the New Covenant as written in Galatians 4:26-27 which quotes, (v.27) directly from Isaiah 54:1-3.

Well then I am somewhat puzzled because that is what this thread is about, actually.

I started it to refute the teaching of Justin...it you read the posts, I think you will see that...and possibly learn what the fuss is about.

This has nothing to do with what you are writing concerning the New Jerusalem...I have not read all you have taken the time to post here,
because I'm not sure why you did? That is, not sure what you are responding to?


Thanks

There's still other members here that also don't believe our Lord Jesus was GOD either (I'm not one of those), so that's not really the issue with Justin, the issue was the Tabernacle cult he was pushing.

Yes there are. However, the unbiblical T experience that was Justin's concern was presented in such a way as to make it seem other than what it really is.

Frankly, as the Trinity is one of the basic doctrines of Christianity, I don't consider people who do not believe in the Trinity to be Christians.

No one has to agree with that, but that is where I stand. Many people believe in God...yet they are not saved and the Bible is not open for personal interpretation
(which it states itself)

I do believe that Justin denying the deity of Christ may be possibly more concerning then his experience. They are both born of error and deception

 

[veteran]

Well then I am somewhat puzzled because that is what this thread is about, actually.

I started it to refute the teaching of Justin...it you read the posts, I think you will see that...and possibly learn what the fuss is about.

This has nothing to do with what you are writing concerning the New Jerusalem...I have not read all you have taken the time to post here,
because I'm not sure why you did? That is, not sure what you are responding to?


Thanks



Yes there are. However, the unbiblical T experience that was Justin's concern was presented in such a way as to make it seem other than what it really is.

Frankly, as the Trinity is one of the basic doctrines of Christianity, I don't consider people who do not believe in the Trinity to be Christians.

No one has to agree with that, but that is where I stand. Many people believe in God...yet they are not saved and the Bible is not open for personal interpretation
(which it states itself)

I do believe that Justin denying the deity of Christ may be possibly more concerning then his experience. They are both born of error and deception

I personally don't use terms like 'The Trinity', although I well recognize the idea as being very Biblical.

There's is valid Biblical proof that Apostle John's subject of Christ coming in the flesh is meant GOD having come in the flesh. Even though John didn't point directly to Isaiah 7 about Christ's Title of Immanuel (with us is God), that has to be included with what he said.

 

[daq]

This has nothing to do with what you are writing concerning the New Jerusalem...I have not read all you have taken the time to post here,
because I'm not sure why you did? That is, not sure what you are responding to?


Thanks

It is a shame you refuse to read the Scripture presented to you when you so blatantly despise your own covenant mother.
(Deuteronomy 5:16, Proverbs 30:17, Matthew 15:3-8, Galatians 4:26) Perhaps in your fourth generation you will consider it. :)

 

[Niki]

It is a shame you refuse to read the Scripture presented to you when you so blatantly despise your own covenant mother.
(Deuteronomy 5:16, Proverbs 30:17, Matthew 15:3-8, Galatians 4:26) Perhaps in your fourth generation you will consider it. :)

Interesting since you do not even consider the actual op

Christ became a curse for me when He died on the cross...so the 4th generation curse doesn't function here.

whatever

oh yeah......I didn't say I refuse to read anything. Those are your words. I actually have a real life and tho I enjoy spending time on forums (sometimes I don't know why)
I just don't have time to read everything...especially when a person appears to be hitting me over the head with their own peculiar particular incendiary thought of the day

I personally don't use terms like 'The Trinity', although I well recognize the idea as being very Biblical.

There's is valid Biblical proof that Apostle John's subject of Christ coming in the flesh is meant GOD having come in the flesh. Even though John didn't point directly to Isaiah 7 about Christ's Title of Immanuel (with us is God), that has to be included with what he said.

yeah ok....well, the Trinity doctrine is not derived simply from John..although that is one of my favorite passages...because of the beautiful flow of the words and the truth
they contain.

If I may...

I personally don't agree with Justin's view that Jesus became GOD, but I do respect his desire to know the spirit behind the letter of doctrine and law. I sincerely wish we could have had a more civil conversation to mutually explore these things together. Unfortunately, IMO he was treated like a demon by some, which kind of discouraged open discourse. I can't blame him for leaving. Some may feel vindicated, but I think we have all lost because he actually did have something good to share (as we also do) whether it was perfect, or not. Rather than feeling threatened by his belief that Jesus was not born GOD, I would have really liked to explore that with him to fully understand the issue and how it affects one's doctrines. Now I can't.

Well actually the Bible doesn't agree with Justin's view. You can probably take up a discourse with him on his website I would imagine. I found his presentation deceptive...
he didn't present his own personal doctrine...yes, for all his dislike of doctrine he really only simply had his own variation...as it really is. When he created the thread on
signs...he was really leading up to his own revelations...again, not biblical.

So I have no problem with pointing those things out.

 

[daq]

Christ became a curse for me when He died on the cross...so the 4th generation curse doesn't function here.

whatever

If you paid any attention to the Testimony of Yeshua and the OT Scriptures concerning the New Covenant, which you claim to partake in, you would know that there never has been any such thing as a fourth generational curse. Have you never read how the man is likened to a tree? How the tree is known by its fruit? Every man has a fig tree and a vine, whether for the good, or whether for the evil, and you will indeed walk your way through the four generations like the four seasons of a year, in this one lifetime, or you do not know my Father the Husbandman. In those days they shall say no more, the fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his own teeth shall be set on edge. Go therefore and learn the Parable of the Fig Tree. :)

 

[Niki]

I am amazed by your ability to insert your thoughts, that are truly your own, as though you knew what everyone else is thinking.

There are billions of people on the earth. You are just one as am I. However, God is in charge of the whole big shebang...not you and not I.

Bye for now. :)

If you paid any attention to the Testimony of Yeshua and the OT Scriptures concerning the New Covenant, which you claim to partake in, you would know that there never has been any such thing as a fourth generational curse.

The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

In Numbers...did you miss that?

Doesn't matter I guess.

Or is that too literal? Anyway, bye again.