The thread that has no rules...

[Robbie]

I kind of see it like once you enter Christ you enter Kingdom principles... and in a Kingdom the King owns all... makes all the rules, etc... so I don't see tithing as relevant to today since everything we have is His... but I do see us as stewards of what's His which means we're responsible for using what God has allowed us to further His Kingdom... now I personally know people that are under the law of tithing who break the Law of God by their traditions... because they'll have a neighbor who's in need of help and they'll say, "Sorry I have to give this money to our church" When the truth is God's Law isn't to build christian businesses... it's to Love Your Neighbor. I actually know an assistant pastor that got fired because the extra money he had he gave to a neighbor in need instead of back to the church he worked at and he wouldn't admit to that being wrong.

 

[aspen]

One of the justifications for donating to a church is to maintain the infrastructure and employ the professional staff.
I suppose that's as good a reason as any without getting mixed up into rhetoric about law and grace.

Most preachers today do not earn their keep.

If you belong to a mega church it's almost impossible to get an audience with the head honcho. You've got to settle for one of his or her droids. The big kahuna is too busy with his churchianity.

I have been attending a rather small church and the problem there is the same. After three weeks of trying to meet with the pastor I gave up.

THREE WEEKS !!!

Somebody tell me what the purpose of a pastor is anyway? If he's too busy to meet with people who attend the church and who participate in the religious games, then does he really need to be retained on the payroll? The office secretary is more worthy of pay than he.

Tithing? Bah humbug.

Another cheer-filled message, huh RJP? I bet the flowers simply bloom when you walk by......

I was a youth minister for many years and my days were filled with visiting with people. Unfortunately, there were still quite a few people in the church I never met. The problem was that there was only one of me and 2,000 members in the church. Also, there were about 20 people that wanted my constant attention. My pastor was 10 times as swamped - sometimes I didn't have a chance to meet with him for months and I was working for him.

Apparently, you do seem to think that the pastor has some purpose because you obviously have no use for others in the ministry - the "droids"

Do people still need to tithe?

No, if a pastor cannot live by faith then me tything is not going to help him/her any. Besides it was the law, we are not under the law

Do we still know God through the letter?

No we know Him by His works, Jesus saved me without the bible, and He is certinly able to teach me Himself. Was it not paul said , the letter killeth, or Christ who said scripture cant bring you life, only He can

Is there still the Levitical priesthood?

No. But I believe the Jews still have one aside somewhere

Are we still under the Law?

No, if we where then Christ died for nothing, but the way some Christans carry on, i am sure that many are still under it by choice.

Did we now know God directly or did the bible just get thicker

we can know God if we let Him in, the Jews had the law in the form of the Torah, christans have a new law in the form of the bible. No the bible is no thicker, just mens stubborness.

In His LOve

So, should the pastor have a primary job to support himself and work 60 hours a week caring for his flock?

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Another cheer-filled message, huh RJP? I bet the flowers simply bloom when you walk by......

I was a youth minister for many years and my days were filled with visiting with people. Unfortunately, there were still quite a few people in the church I never met. The problem was that there was only one of me and 2,000 members in the church. Also, there were about 20 people that wanted my constant attention. My pastor was 10 times as swamped - sometimes I didn't have a chance to meet with him for months and I was working for him.

Apparently, you do seem to think that the pastor has some purpose because you obviously have no use for others in the ministry - the "droids"



So, should the pastor have a primary job to support himself and work 60 hours a week caring for his flock?

You know a pastor that works 60 hours a week just doing church stuff?

 

[aspen]

You know a pastor that works 60 hours a week just doing church stuff?

Most pastors do, Whiteknuckle. If they are not visiting sick people, they are counseling, leading workshops, investing their time in small groups, and meeting the needs of their congregations.

 

[Robbie]

I also have a different experience with pastor's... maybe golf 60 hours a week... but I don't know about work... haha...

The pastor's where I personally know their family have so much money stored up that they have to pretend like they have less than they do so they don't cause offense... but like I told the pastor's wife (my friends Mom) at the church I used to go to after she accused me of being deceived by the devil because I wouldn't go to their church anymore, "You guys have the money to buy a Lexus and you buy a Toyota so you won't cause offense but if the truth of how much money you've made off God causes offense you shouldn't hide it, you should change it and redistribute it to the people in the body that have less... and how can you and your family try to take the position of leading people into the truth if your families biggest fear is people finding out the truth about your family?" haha... for a second I thought her eyes were going to shoot our of her face... that was the freeing moment for me... when I quit, "Not questioning authority" and realized Christ is the authority... not religious business owners who peddle Jesus.

 

[aspen]

I also have a different experience with pastor's... maybe golf 60 hours a week... but I don't know about work... haha...

The pastor's where I personally know their family have so much money stored up that they have to pretend like they have less than they do so they don't cause offense... but like I told the pastor's wife (my friends Mom) at the church I used to go to after she accused me of being deceived by the devil because I wouldn't go to their church anymore, "You guys have the money to buy a Lexus and you buy a Toyota so you won't cause offense but if the truth of how much money you've made off God causes offense you shouldn't hide it, you should change it and redistribute it to the people in the body that have less... and how can you and your family try to take the position of leading people into the truth if your families biggest fear is people finding out the truth about your family?" haha... for a second I thought her eyes were going to shoot our of her face... that was the freeing moment for me... when I quit, "Not questioning authority" and realized Christ is the authority... not religious business owners who peddle Jesus.

It sounds like you see them for what they are - religious business owners. I was referring to pastors.

 

[Robbie]

I kind of live by the whole... "Freely you have received, freely give."

 

[jiggyfly]

The talk about pastors here reminds me of something that happen several years ago.
A medium size church fellowship had just had a financial meeting where the pastor hit them up for yet another raise. One of the elders there called me and shared his suspicion that the pastor maybe a hireling and asked me if there was some kind of test.
I said sure, just stop paying him and you will know by whether he leaves or stays.