The Tree of Knowledge

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Floyd

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The point is made in Gen. that God related to Adam in a very special way. That was the precurser to a relationship based on freewill in the future (christians), through Christ!

Eve and Adam!




Discussions take place frequently as to the reason that Satan approached Eve and not Adam, to partake of the fruit of the tree “of the knowledge of good and evil”, Gen. 2:9, 2:17, 3:1-5.

Some say that Eve was more gullible and suggestible than Adam, being a woman, and there may or may not be some truth in that point. Others say that both were equally susceptible and that Satan just happened to meet Eve first, but Satan always acts with purpose!

We now know that death entered the world because of that act of Eve’s, Gen. 2:17, it is certain that Satan’s tempting of Eve was by design, as Satan’s deceptive ability is on record, Gen. 3:1.

A further possible reason that Eve was approached, and Adam followed, has been suggested as Adam’s great love of Eve, and has been described as “Adam loving Eve too much”!

However, when one remembers that the target of Satan was Adam, not Eve; Satan’s plan clearly had a killer punch in its formulation. God had formed man/Adam first, Gen. 2:7, and had given him instructions re the Garden of Eden; Gen. 2:16, and as such was first in God’s order of Creation and responsibility, as Adam, not Eve was answerable to God at that time, Gen. 3:9.

When one considers the grave responsibility that Adam carried to obey God, Satan knew that a mere appearance, and suggestion by him to Adam to take of the Forbidden Fruit would probably not succeed, and he knew that in all likelihood he would only have one chance with Adam, as he would report Satan’s activity to God in their daily contact/ communion!

It is shown in Scripture that Satan had held high Office under God at some stage in the past, as a “covering Cherub”, Ezek. 28:13, and the whole of the twenty eighth Chapter, and Isa. 14, confirms his rise and eventual future destruction. His Domain was described as “the holy mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14. This state continued until “iniquity was found in thee”, 28:15, which emphasises that Satan had choice, which he exercised to challenge Almighty God, in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, 6,17, and Isa. 13-14. It is important to note, that Adam and Eve also were given free will, Gen. 2:17

When attempting to understand what Satan thought he knew would work in his assault on Adam, he clearly had knowledge and or experience, or both to call on, which in his calculated plan against Adam, gave him a high degree of certainty of success.

Here we can use Scripture record in this effort to solve this puzzle of Eden.

Satan’s own Fall from the Grace of Almighty God was due to his freewill choice to challenge God in His own Domain, Ezek. 28:2, and to love his own self, Ezek. 28:17! That self love replaced his love and duty to God as the “covering cherub”, which position entailed presumably the “covering” of the heavenly beings in the “mountain of God”, Ezek. 28:14!

When remembering that all heavens created beings (angels etc.), are described in Scripture as male, the situation in God’s Creation in Eden shows a distinct change in the creation of Eve from Adam! The fact that she was a part of Adam (his rib) Gen. 2:22-25, underlines the statement in Gen. 2:24, shows the legitimacy of the full circle from “rib” to "union", which is called marriage, when under the Ordinance of God; which is man and woman!

Satan had to break that legitimacy to bring to ruin the perfection of that “Ordinance”! He surmised that to sully the perfect circle of “rib” to "union", which is called (marriage) would achieve the objective. He knew that in his own case, his self love and pride of it, had moved him from love of God to his own fallen state, and as his whole effort was from then on, to unseat God, and he has been given certain freedom to attempt such; it was imperative for him to own Adam, to show the failure of God’s Plan before all heavenly Creation, and therefore his superiority over God! See: Satan's Motivation:

Satan therefore approached Eve, changed the words that God had given to Adam re. the forbidden fruit to: “ Ye shall not surely die” Gen.3:4, and the trap was set for Adam; and in so doing he usurped God and Adam, and his efforts have been continual since, and will be until his final demise; Rev. 20:3, and 20:7-10.

How then was the “trap” set, and why would it have the desired effect for Satan? It is the writers contention that when Eve ate of the “forbidden fruit”, she was changed, in Adam’s perception, that she allured him in a new way, in a sexually attractive way, which was different to that attraction before she ate of the forbidden fruit; and knew for the first time that she was naked Gen. 3:7. At that stage Adam had not eaten, but was with her, and perceived the change in her; AND LIKED WHAT HE PERCEIVED, and joined Eve in the “forbidden fruit”! Also, Satan was using the God given protective love that a man has for his woman, in an enhanced state that she was then in!

The key words used in Gen. 3:6 are; good, pleasant, desired, wise; and are based on Satan's lie and promise in 3:5, "that you will be as God", (not gods as AV 1611). He again attempted to use the same lies against our Lord (the second Adam), in Matt. 4:1-10. What he did not of course say, is that they would have the insights listed above, that he has, and had in perfection as "the covering cherub"! Also, he did not say they would be "fallen", as he is; and is then and now attempting to convert all created beings, heavenly and on earth to his plan to unseat God Almighty!

When Eve ate of the "forbidden Fruit", her perceptions were changed to Satan's perceptions and in 3:6, (lust "pleasant" of the eyes) corrected as per Comp. 3:6, note by Dr. Bullinger. Adam also liked the change he saw in her, to the point of also disobeying God's instruction, probably as per above comment and correction by Dr. Bullinger.

The argument is used against the above, that in Gen. 3:7, that the reference is to both of them. However, it is clear in the narrative that Eve was fallen first, and the time gap was sufficient for Adam to “perceive, and like what he perceived”. Many women object to this interpretation (including a female Bible Teacher of the writers acquaintance), and state that Eve was as important as Adam; which is not disputed, but Adam held the responsibility, and therefore in general terms and God’s eyes, Adam's was/is the failure! Also many women object to the sexual connotation. That is to be expected with the Feminist movements inroads into the female mind and world; the same organisation has lobbied for the male gender reference in the Bible to be changed to female or neuter! The “equality” demanded by vociferous “Feminists”, undermines their Biblical status as child rearers, and as "help meet", to their men, the functions of which are of the most important in the world! A female U.K. Professor stated recently what has been known by American business women for some time now, “that women cannot have it all”, defined as good work life, and good family life, due to one or the other suffering as a result of lack of attention or closeness. This is especially true where children are concerned.

The many references to Adam show his responsibility to God; Gen. 2:15-16, 19, 20, 3:8-9, 16-17 and 24. It is interesting to note that Eve is cursed by God, but not Adam. For Adam’s sin of being persuaded by Eve to eat the “Forbidden fruit”, the ground is cursed; and his is the labour of frustration all his days, which most men will admit. The major point here, is that Adam "listened to the voice of his wife", Gen. 3:17, and ate the forbidden fruit, instead of doing what God had said! That does not mean that Adam should not hear, or listen to his wife! It does mean that he should not obey her when he knew she was wrong! In this he used his free will to disobey God, and obey his wife! This phenomena is now widespread!

Eve’s curse entails childbirth and rearing, and her husband ruling over her Gen. 3:16, a condition guaranteed to drive many modern women to distraction and rejection of God's Word. However, the condition is confirmed in 1Tim. 2:12 and Eph. 5:22-23. The major difference now to Genesis, is that both Eve and Adam, (all Christian married couples) are seen by God through the Sacrifice of Jesus the Christ, as per Eph. 5:22-23.

Recently a scientist said on a TV program that “men have evolved to enjoy the female body instead of their minds”. That of course is an atheist’s view, and as Christ-ones know, God’s Word is the only source of Truth, and the truth is that Adam fell for Eve’s body, in a different way to originally ordained, Gen. 1:28, and agreed to eat the “forbidden fruit” because of what he perceived/saw, and liked! Many have said, or alluded, that the “original sin” was sex. That is clearly not so as Gen. 1:28 shows. “Original sin”, is disobedience to God’s instruction, by first Eve, then Adam. Eve was deceived by Satan, Adam was tempted by Eve!

Satan has used the same formulation, i.e. corrupted sexuality, again since Eden in the form of “fallen angels” mating with “the daughters of men”, Gen. 6:2, and 6:4. See : Nephilim, who were they, and why: This was purposed to stop the promise of God embodied in the promise of Messiah, as shown in Gen. 3:15 coming to fruition, as the “seed of the woman” had to remain unsullied by any other than human seed. See : Nephilim;

The human line from Adam to Mary the mother of Jesus had to be completely unsullied by any attempt of Satan, otherwise the conception of Jesus by the “Holy Spirit” of God, would have been impossible! See: Genealogies of Jesus Christ (Separate study.)

Satan is still using perversions of all kinds, (particularly sexual) in all parts of human society to mislead and enslave all who will not see the Truth of God in Christ!

Satan seemed at that early stage of this Creation to have achieved a major victory, but as shown in Gen. 3:15, the struggle had only just begun in this Creation. It was certainly the case that no ordinary human could withstand and resist Satan, but in the wisdom of God, the Gen. 3:15 promise referred only to “the seed of the woman”, without reference to the Father!

The ultimate fulfilment of this Promise is shown in the Gospel of Matt. 1: 25, and in Luke 1:26-38. Here, the “seed of the woman” is Mary the espoused of Joseph, and the “Father” is God Almighty in the form of the “Holy Spirit”! The “holy thing” is Jesus of Nazareth, “God Incarnate”, who came to earth, “to save His people from their sins”, initially Israel, but now open to all!

Jesus came to undo what Satan had corrupted in Eden, when he successfully forced death into the world, via Eve and Adam, and God barred the “tree of life”, Gen. 3:22-24, from them, and all mankind from then on. Jesus, the “second Adam” came that “all who will may come”, to Jesus the Christ of God, and in believing in Him, may have eternal life. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”, 1 Cor. 15:22.

In Christ Jesus, the perfect union of man and woman, (the rib to union) is restored, as they as Christ-ones are seen through Jesus the Christ by the Father, as perfect! The reason for that is that they are not married under human rules, but before God Himself! The clear message is that the God given union (marriage) is for a man and a woman, no matter what society and Governments say in the present world situation regarding morals!

The rib was not taken from Adam to create a man, but to create a woman; Eve!
 

Bible_Gazer

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I like to share some interesting thoughts and some here that I read were interesting thoughts.

I think Satan(serpent) was the knowledge of good and evil, he knew both.
He was the one that God said they have become as one of us(Satan).
And God didn't want them to listen to him.
Words are powerful, they change people hearts.
Knowledge is tempting and so is freedom.
That is what I think Satan used.
You know how this saying goes " I know something that you don't know"
People kill or pay a price to know what you know.
Satan was the threat. (personally I think he is the tree) The knowing sinner was there.
God does not know sin, nor Jesus because they never committed sin.(experience)
Satan knows sin(disobey) and now this partial freedom from God laws bring forth death.

I think there was partial information given unto Adam and Eve mind.( they were not completely knowledgeable in all things yet)
They knew how to talk, so they were created with a vocabulary and knowing meaning of words spoken unto them.
They therefore they must knew what God was saying what not to eat and knowing what death could mean.
Words are our guide lines, but to some they are bound(limited)

According to God some things are not to be known.

Knowledge can be a temptation
 

Floyd

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Hello Bible-Gazer:
I see what you have said; however, as the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil" bore fruit (forbidden); I would not personally agree with that thought.
Also, regarding knowledge, it is my own opinion that "true gold" is knowledge of God and His Word.
Regards.
Floyd.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Hello Floyd


Floyd said:
Hello Bible-Gazer:
I see what you have said; however, as the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil" bore fruit (forbidden); I would not personally agree with that thought.
Also, regarding knowledge, it is my own opinion that "true gold" is knowledge of God and His Word.
Regards.
Floyd.
Hello Floyd
You might consider Satan being a false teacher

Matthew 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Satan fruits was forbidden.
 

Floyd

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Bible Gazer: I would never consider Satan anything other than a false teacher!
More to the point, he is the enemy of God and those who are His!
Not for nothing is he called "the father of lies" by our Lord!
Unfortunately; in human intercourse; too much consideration is given to men's idea's; instead of what is actually stated by the Holy Spirit/Christ/God!
Floyd.
 
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A very thought-provoking discussion!

The OP seemed somewhat bewildered as to why someone without the "knowledge of good and evil" should be punished for actions resulting from this lack of knowledge. Several posts here (especially Selene and Webers_home) have adequently answered that question. Adam was the Son (or child) of God. Children, in their pure state of innocence, do not possess the ability to comprehend all that is good or bad for them. However, they do know full well that their parents (or in this case the Heavenly Father) have their best interests at heart. Children seek to please their parents by following their commandments of what is best for them. They also know their may be repercussions for their disobedience.

This basic instinct to trust the Father's command was instilled in Adam at his creation and was bolstered by his observances of the unfathomable magnificence of God's entire creation in the Garden of Eden. It was Adam's willingness to please his wife (or unwillingness to live without her) that Satan used to persuade him to disobey God's command.

Floyd mentioned a number of other important aspects in his prior post that are also worthy of consideration. Was Eve's temptation of a sexual nature? Quite possibly. As her punishment directly related to pains of child birth and submission to her husband. Her immediate offspring, Cain, did become the first murderer. Though, interestingly, Cain evidently did not possess the giant physical characteristics of the antediluvian Nephilim.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I still think Genesis 3:22 is one of the most intriguing verses in the bible

God (plural) knew good and evil and man did not

After Man ate from the tree he became like God ... knowing good and evil

Sounds like Man would have been better off not knowing what God knew
 
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Arnie Manitoba said:
I still think Genesis 3:22 is one of the most intriguing verses in the bible

God (plural) knew good and evil and man did not

After Man ate from the tree he became like God ... knowing good and evil

Sounds like Man would have been better off not knowing what God knew
Yes indeed, Arnie. Genesis 3:22 is certainly a most intriguing verse as it deals with some very profound spiritual aspects e.g., the nature of the Godhead, man attaining forbidden aspects of God such as the knowledge of good and evil (but without the infinite power and wisdom to always resist temptation), the wages of sin, the tree of eternal life, God's governance of mankind, etc.

I also agree that sometimes "ignorance is bliss". Our breakfast may well be that much more enjoyable if we never know exactly how that sausage was made. :)
 

Floyd

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You all need to read Gen. again. God had told Adam not to eat of that tree!
Floyd.
 

aspen

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why do we need to know the difference between good and evil if evil was never introduced?
 

tooldtocare

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williemac said:
The problem is that you are thinking of this from the perspective of knowing right from wrong, so you assume one has to know right from wrong before they can make a responsible decision. Who says your assumption is correct?
It is not an assumption. We were given a choice. Do this and that and this will happen. Stay silent and this will happen.

It is a product of "choice" not a command. :)-
 

ezekiel

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Tree's and fruit, good and evil. First study all that the Most High even thru Christ has to say about these words. Every word that comes from the mouth of God. Then return and read it again and the truth will reveal itself. When Christ said eat of me what fruit was he speaking of, when Christ said I Am the light what light was he speaking of, when it was said you must now eat of the tree of life and live was God to build a tree like a apple that we eat and live forever, No, Christ was in the mist of the garden just as he is today now eat of it and live forever blessed be his name.
 

StarTemple

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Maybe it (death) was more a consequence than a punishment. Then a knowledge that was off limits, regardless what it related to in evil and good, was off limits for more reason than threat of punishment. Maybe the "fruit" itself also caused death. Now we know humans are still on a quest for knowledge that some suggest is verging on illegal, on tampering with the genetic basis of all things, and in realms of energy man has no business attempting to control.

Thus in the opinion of some, man's self destruction will come by aid of advanced sciences, and that is where the first breach of forbidden knowledge has led. And in the Satanic strategy, knowing man could not steal that knowledge anyways, but motive was revealed, guiding man millennium over millennium and century over century decade by decade and year after year, Satan has been able to lead man to a potential extinction that is very real (Matt24:21-22), by mostly the "good intentions" of people driven by learning and intuition, not in itself "evil". But in the end all those "good intentions" and advanced refined knowledge ends up applied to human and planetary control and war and profits.

Imo then the consequences of man's eventual total misuse of this advancement will be just that, a consequence, and in it one can see "God's punishment" or man's own consequences of "looking into" things that are actually not as innocent and beneficial as they first appear. Like telling a child not to play with fire, if they burn themselves is it the parent's punishment? Or the consequence?

"In the day you eat of it you will die" is as much a statement of consequential truth as a divine penalty, or both, depending on how one reads it.
 

Job one

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Adam & Eve

As christians does it become us to be merciful and compassionate and to judge righteously?

Is it not our christian duty to forgive?

Is it our christian duty to reserve judgement upon any issue until we know all the facts and circumstances regarding others?

Should we, as christians, always avoid Satan’s perpetual sin of fault finding and “being accusers of the brethren” and instead, look for the good in others?

Should we, as christians, follow God’s commandment to “Honor thy Father and thy Mother?

Should we, as christians, remember that Christ taught that as we judge, so shall we be judged by the judge of all?

Should we, as christians, Stop, ponder, meditate, search and understand that the entire creative process, including the fall of Adam and Eve is given to us in the most brief account possible, all within a handful of pages. This account is perhaps the epitome of brevity relating to galactic events of creation and implementation of the whole human family.

Others may judge Adam and Eve harshly and utterly fail to see that in fact they acted responsibly in implementing the wise and eternal plan of God which was designed to allow us unlimited opportunity to achieve all that one could in this life in preparation for that which we may inherit through the merciful merits and atonement of Jesus Christ.

I for one do honor them for the great work they have done to allow us the chance to receive as joint heirs with Christ, “all that the Father hath.” For I truly believe that when full light is shed on the issue relating to Adam and Eve and their role played that we need look only to ourselves and associated personal responsibility to work out our salvation before the Lord.

Perhaps it might be well to explore and examine more accurately a more complete discovery relating to Adam and Eve and all that they may have faced in a separate topic.


In response to snr557’s questions I at this point respond as follows:

Did Adam and Eve make the correct choice in partaking of the fruit of the tree?

If God did not want them to partake of the fruit of the tree, why then did He plant this tree in the midst of the garden in the first place?

We should also remember that according to Genesis 1:31 “And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good...” The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was indeed a part of his creations and was therefore also “very good”.

Also the Lord verily declared in Genesis 3:22 “And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil....” Is it not therefore good to become like God? Or does the Lord desire that we should become ignorant and forever remain in such a state?

If Adam and Eve had not partaken of the fruit, they would have frustrated God’s original plan for a savior and redeemer. (this plan of God was implemented before the foundations of this world were ever laid.) See:

1 Peter 1:20 “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world...”

Thus if they had not partaken of the fruit and therefore would have had no need for a savior and redeemer it is obvious that Christ could not therefore be the redeemer of all mankind, thus making null and void and false, many of the points and prophesies of scripture.

If this does not answer your questions to your satisfaction, then please explain that which you still have questions.