The Truth About Born Again Christians

[Ace Michaels]

"Born of water" is "natural birth? I never heard that idea before. What a gem hehe. Being born of water is absolutely scriptural though. That is baptism, which is the answer of a conscious in good faith

Here's some examples though, of the scriptural meaning of being "born of water". It is water baptism of course. Not "natural birth" lol.


Being born of water is being born of God. Just as Jesus was born of God at His Baptism, showing His birthing forth as the "First Begotten from the dead". It is identified with our death and resurrection in Christ.

(Act 13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

(Mat 3:14) But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(Mat 3:15) And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
(Mat 3:16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
(Mat 3:17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

(Heb 10:22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

(Eph 5:26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

(Tit 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

(Joh 13:8) Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
(Joh 13:9) Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
(Joh 13:10) Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

(1Co 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

(Act 8:36) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
(Act 8:37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
(Act 8:38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Being "Born from above" is water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit, both. Our sanctification to the Lord, and His santification of His Holy Spirit self into us! The Water and the Spirit, all one in the cleansing Blood of Christ;

(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

Born from above is natural birth. Baptism is death and resurrection. Born of the water is the amniotic fluid, bag of waters, all souls must go through this water to be born again. These are the souls from the first earth age that did not have a natural birth.

These souls from the first earth age had spiritual bodies, not natural bodies. When God called them back to Heaven and destroyed the earth the first time, these souls stayed with Him. These are the souls that fought Satan in the intial battle that started his war with God. These souls were already born in a sense but now needed to be born again, of the water. This is the natural birth process. Jesus knows these souls and knows the true meaning of born again when He explained it to Nicodemus. Nicodemus was trying to trip Jesus up, but as we know that is impossible. Jesus went way out there spiritually over his head and gave the correct definition of born again. After the natural birth, born again, God has called these souls again in this earth age to fight against Satan again because he knows we will. Baptism is death and ressurrection of self, not birth.

 

[neophyte]

Jesus commands it (Jn 3:3,7). To be born again implies a radical change in a person, an event as life-altering as the "first birth" out of your mother's womb. When you are born again, the Holy Spirit makes a change in your soul, cleanses you from sin, and gives you a new nature, planting supernatural love in your heart. Just as you were once born into an earthly family, when you are born again you become part of a spiritual family, with God as the head and all his people, on earth and in heaven, as your brothers and sisters.
Catholics use the biblical means of being born again: baptism.
Jesus told Nicodemus, "No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit" (Jn 3:5). Paul spoke of God's gift of "the bath of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Ti 3:5). Paul told the Romans that "we who were baptize into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death . . . so that . . . we too might live in the newness of life" (Rom 6:3-4). Water baptism is the physical sign of and instrument for bringing about the spiritual rebirth. In baptism we are regenerated into new life in Christ.
--if you have been baptized, you already have been saved the Bible way and in the way the first Christians understood "born again."

 

[dragonfly]

In answer to # 18, the following testimony should be of considerable interest.

http://illbehonest.com/Paul-Washers-Story-Paul-Washer You won't be bored either.

 

[Faithful]

Born again can be understood on 2 levels.

Remember the story...a Christmas Carol?...the one where Scrooge changes into a "new" man. Scrooge repented and did what was right...this is what the OT is all about. salvation by doing what is right...righteousness. This recognizes the bad behavior and rectifies it by correcting those errors with good deeds.

Now many people would say that this is to be born again. There is an aspect of this that is true. the prodigal son came to his senses too and repented.

The other level of being born again, is the response of God.....the giving of a new life...the acceptance of the repentance and the response of the giving of the Holy Spirit.

So whereas the first level is on a righteousness level, the 2nd is on a holiness level...by grace. The first involves forgiveness, and the second involves empowering to be as Jesus in this world.


Both levels are necessary to fulfill the full plan of God (born from above). But even the first level will save you. God is merciful.

Now the full born again experience can only be maintained (at that level of intimacy with God) by forsaking all in order to retain the level of holiness required to cleave to God.

It reminds me of stories of privateers (pirates) who in order to outrun the navy ships sent out to arrest them, needed to throw everything overboard in order to be able to out sail their pursuers and get away. So the cannon (defenses) were heaved over the side...etc...

Unless we forsake ALL things we cannot remain long in the presence of the Lord. The world will catch up to us!!!!

Then we are only left with the humility of righteousness and the doing what is right in our own strength.

Of course if we pretend to be holy when we are not then we lose EVEN the benefits of a temporal righteousness.

Is the way to God through Christ a temporal measure?

The NT suggests as does the old testament that it is about a persons LOVE of Truth.

"No one comes to the Father but by me."

There is nothing according to Romans that can separate us from the Love of God.
Past, present or future. Christ said,"None shall pluck them from my hand".

It appears that a love of Truth would accept the truth and that it would be first and foremost in their hearts and minds.

In a Christmas Carol Charles Dickens was speaking about shutting your eyes to the needs of others.
If you love your neighbour as you love yourself you will do for them as you would wish for yourself.
As believers everything we have comes from God. "All things come from thee O Lord and of thine own do we give thee."
God promises us enough for ourselves and the needs of others. In the wilderness where manna came from heaven daily.
They were told not to save any because if they did it went mouldy the next day. Believers live on a daily bread basis one day at a time.

Once we have received Christ, it is so easy by the worries of this world to lose sight of what you have and to let worry and worldly ways rob you of the truth and the life that Christ has given you through knowing God and be blessed by the Spirit.

Re-birth is not a one off process on the day you believe. You have your belief and the word takes root then your love of the truth should cause you to grow daily in it by trusting Gods words.

Holy men of God were not Holy men of God in the OT because they had a written word. They were Holy Men of God because they received the given word from the Holy Spirit himself. If the Spirit is in you then you have life and the source of Gods word in man,

Don't judge those who are young who are mislead into thinking a man can teach them.
God told us that the new way he would be our teacher. That a man would not longer be required for those in the Spirit.

Jeremiah 31:31-34.


Jeremiah 31:31-34

King James Version (KJV)
[sup]31 [/sup]Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[sup]32 [/sup]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
[sup]33 [/sup]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[sup]34 [/sup]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

5 foolish virgins and 5 wise virgins.

No one else's oil can save you. You need your own supply you need to be taught personally by the Spirit.
Trimming away the old so he can renew you from the inside by a personal relationship with you.

 

[whitestone]

Is the way to God through Christ a temporal measure?

The NT suggests as does the old testament that it is about a persons LOVE of Truth.

"No one comes to the Father but by me."

There is nothing according to Romans that can separate us from the Love of God.
Past, present or future. Christ said,"None shall pluck them from my hand".

It appears that a love of Truth would accept the truth and that it would be first and foremost in their hearts and minds.

In a Christmas Carol Charles Dickens was speaking about shutting your eyes to the needs of others.
If you love your neighbour as you love yourself you will do for them as you would wish for yourself.
As believers everything we have comes from God. "All things come from thee O Lord and of thine own do we give thee."
God promises us enough for ourselves and the needs of others. In the wilderness where manna came from heaven daily.
They were told not to save any because if they did it went mouldy the next day. Believers live on a daily bread basis one day at a time.

Once we have received Christ, it is so easy by the worries of this world to lose sight of what you have and to let worry and worldly ways rob you of the truth and the life that Christ has given you through knowing God and be blessed by the Spirit.

Re-birth is not a one off process on the day you believe. You have your belief and the word takes root then your love of the truth should cause you to grow daily in it by trusting Gods words.

Holy men of God were not Holy men of God in the OT because they had a written word. They were Holy Men of God because they received the given word from the Holy Spirit himself. If the Spirit is in you then you have life and the source of Gods word in man,

Don't judge those who are young who are mislead into thinking a man can teach them.
God told us that the new way he would be our teacher. That a man would not longer be required for those in the Spirit.

Jeremiah 31:31-34.


Jeremiah 31:31-34

King James Version (KJV)
[sup]31 [/sup]Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[sup]32 [/sup]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
[sup]33 [/sup]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[sup]34 [/sup]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

5 foolish virgins and 5 wise virgins.

No one else's oil can save you. You need your own supply you need to be taught personally by the Spirit.
Trimming away the old so he can renew you from the inside by a personal relationship with you.

Nice post Faithful. Thank you for bumping this thread up

 

[Faithful]

Nice post Faithful. Thank you for bumping this thread up

Hello Whitestone,

Perhaps others will pick up on the points and so we can all learn from each other.

 

[neophyte]

Nice post Faithful. Thank you for bumping this thread up

2 Tim. 4:8 – Protestants often use this verse to prove “once saved, always saved,” even in the face of all Paul wrote about the possibility of losing his salvation (including his). But it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. This is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we indeed have a moral certitude of our salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We must persevere throughout our lives, and can choose to fall away.

Also, Catholics have more assurance of salvation that those who espouse “once saved, always saved.” This is because the only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian will not persevere to the end – but this is something a Christian cannot know during his life, and this necessarily imposes uncertainty upon him until the end. For Catholics, we know that salvation is ours to lose. For “once saved, always saved” Protestants, they don’t even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

Rom. 11:29 – “the gifts and the call of our God our irrevocable.” Some Protestants use this to prove “once saved, always saved.” But this verse has nothing to do with our response to salvation. It deals with God’s unmerited gifts and call to us. Moreover, if a person is in “the elect,” then his salvation is irrevocable. But we can never know if we are in the elect during our lives (“the elect” only deals with God’s knowledge).

Rom. 14:4 – and he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. This is another verse Protestants use to prove “once saved, always saved.” But the verse speaks only to what God is able to do. It does not address what the person is free to do (accept God’s grace or reject it).

Rom. 13:11 - for salvation is nearer to us now then when we first believed. If we already have salvation , then how can we only be nearer to it ?

 

[whitestone]

2 Tim. 4:8 – Protestants often use this verse to prove “once saved, always saved,” even in the face of all Paul wrote about the possibility of losing his salvation (including his). But it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. This is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we indeed have a moral certitude of our salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We must persevere throughout our lives, and can choose to fall away.

Also, Catholics have more assurance of salvation that those who espouse “once saved, always saved.” This is because the only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian will not persevere to the end – but this is something a Christian cannot know during his life, and this necessarily imposes uncertainty upon him until the end. For Catholics, we know that salvation is ours to lose. For “once saved, always saved” Protestants, they don’t even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

Rom. 11:29 – “the gifts and the call of our God our irrevocable.” Some Protestants use this to prove “once saved, always saved.” But this verse has nothing to do with our response to salvation. It deals with God’s unmerited gifts and call to us. Moreover, if a person is in “the elect,” then his salvation is irrevocable. But we can never know if we are in the elect during our lives (“the elect” only deals with God’s knowledge).

Rom. 14:4 – and he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. This is another verse Protestants use to prove “once saved, always saved.” But the verse speaks only to what God is able to do. It does not address what the person is free to do (accept God’s grace or reject it).

Rom. 13:11 - for salvation is nearer to us now then when we first believed. If we already have salvation , then how can we only be nearer to it ?

Lol, catholics...