The Truth About Born Again Christians

[watsoncarl53]

Born again can be understood on 2 levels.

Remember the story...a Christmas Carol?...the one where Scrooge changes into a "new" man. Scrooge repented and did what was right...this is what the OT is all about. salvation by doing what is right...righteousness. This recognizes the bad behavior and rectifies it by correcting those errors with good deeds.

Now many people would say that this is to be born again. There is an aspect of this that is true. the prodigal son came to his senses too and repented.

The other level of being born again, is the response of God.....the giving of a new life...the acceptance of the repentance and the response of the giving of the Holy Spirit.

So whereas the first level is on a righteousness level, the 2nd is on a holiness level...by grace. The first involves forgiveness, and the second involves empowering to be as Jesus in this world.


Both levels are necessary to fulfill the full plan of God (born from above). But even the first level will save you. God is merciful.

Now the full born again experience can only be maintained (at that level of intimacy with God) by forsaking all in order to retain the level of holiness required to cleave to God.

It reminds me of stories of privateers (pirates) who in order to outrun the navy ships sent out to arrest them, needed to throw everything overboard in order to be able to out sail their pursuers and get away. So the cannon (defenses) were heaved over the side...etc...

Unless we forsake ALL things we cannot remain long in the presence of the Lord. The world will catch up to us!!!!

Then we are only left with the humility of righteousness and the doing what is right in our own strength.

Of course if we pretend to be holy when we are not then we lose EVEN the benefits of a temporal righteousness.

 

[Episkopos]

Born again can be understood on 2 levels.

Remember the story...a Christmas Carol?...the one where Scrooge changes into a "new" man. Scrooge repented and did what was right...this is what the OT is all about. salvation by doing what is right...righteousness. This recognizes the bad behavior and rectifies it by correcting those errors with good deeds.

Now many people would say that this is to be born again. There is an aspect of this that is true. the prodigal son came to his senses too and repented.

The other level of being born again, is the response of God.....the giving of a new life...the acceptance of the repentance and the response of the giving of the Holy Spirit.

So whereas the first level is on a righteousness level, the 2nd is on a holiness level...by grace. The first involves forgiveness, and the second involves empowering to be as Jesus in this world.


Both levels are necessary to fulfill the full plan of God (born from above). But even the first level will save you. God is merciful.

Now the full born again experience can only be maintained (at that level of intimacy with God) by forsaking all in order to retain the level of holiness required to cleave to God.

It reminds me of stories of privateers (pirates) who in order to outrun the navy ships sent out to arrest them, needed to throw everything overboard in order to be able to out sail their pursuers and get away. So the cannon (defenses) were heaved over the side...etc...

Unless we forsake ALL things we cannot remain long in the presence of the Lord. The world will catch up to us!!!!

Then we are only left with the humility of righteousness and the doing what is right in our own strength.

Of course if we pretend to be holy when we are not then we lose EVEN the benefits of a temporal righteousness.

Hey.... I wrote this!!!!

 

[watsoncarl53]

Yes we know. We posted it so we could discuss it with you. We could never get connected with you where we 1st read it.

Everyone says they are born again. How would we know you are born again? What would be undeniable proof? We want to see if we can learn anything from your great expertise.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes we know. We posted it so we could discuss it with you. We could never get connected with you where we 1st read it.

Everyone says they are born again. How would we know you are born again? What would be undeniable proof? We want to see if we can learn anything from your great expertise.

OK..who's we?

 

[watsoncarl53]

OK..who's we?

My Friends and I. You aren't trying to get out of answering some questions and discussing your Statements of faith are you? If so, all you have to do is say you do not want to witness to us about Jesus. And we will not bother with you ever again.

 

[Episkopos]

My Friends and I. You aren't trying to get out of answering some questions and discussing your Statements of faith are you? If so, all you have to do is say you do not want to witness to us about Jesus. And we will not bother with you ever again.

Not at all! I was just wondering at the method.

What questions would you have so we can discuss this?

 

[watsoncarl53]

Not at all! I was just wondering at the method.

What questions would you have so we can discuss this?

We can start with the ones that we have already put forth to you.

I will see you tomorrow lord willing.

Everyone says they are born again. How would we know you are born again? What would be undeniable proof?

 

[Episkopos]

We can start with the ones that we have already put forth to you.

I will see you tomorrow lord willing.

Everyone says they are born again. How would we know you are born again? What would be undeniable proof?

In the OP it is stated that there is a big difference between someone who reforms their character for themselves and someone who is translated into the beloved.

Here are the things that I see demarcate between one who is reformed and one who is transformed.

Love. The 4th dimension is invisible to our eyes and it is made up of love. God dwells there. We abide in Christ there. That is why John says that if we don't love we don't know God. We are to love as Jesus loved from WHERE He is. This love is a supernatural one and is fearless. Perfect love (His love) casts out ALL fear (save the fear of the Lord). There is a boldness in this love so that the person who has been born in the Spirit wishes to proclaim to the world this great secret about God and the purpose of our being created. So I would say that the second indicator is a holy fearlessness towards men. The fear of God is so great that no other fear is possible. Thelove of God and fear of God are uniquely combined to form one attribute in the one who is born from above.

The Spiritual place called Zion is where we abide in Christ. One who is born again from above is born in Zion.

 

[watsoncarl53]

In the OP it is stated that there is a big difference between someone who reforms their character for themselves and someone who is translated into the beloved.

Here are the things that I see demarcate between one who is reformed and one who is transformed.

Love. The 4th dimension is invisible to our eyes and it is made up of love. God dwells there. We abide in Christ there. That is why John says that if we don't love we don't know God. We are to love as Jesus loved from WHERE He is. This love is a supernatural one and is fearless. Perfect love (His love) casts out ALL fear (save the fear of the Lord). There is a boldness in this love so that the person who has been born in the Spirit wishes to proclaim to the world this great secret about God and the purpose of our being created. So I would say that the second indicator is a holy fearlessness towards men. The fear of God is so great that no other fear is possible. Thelove of God and fear of God are uniquely combined to form one attribute in the one who is born from above.

The Spiritual place called Zion is where we abide in Christ. One who is born again from above is born in Zion.

The Book of John

Chapter 3

Verse 5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Can you read all the post by each person that post on this web site or any web site and tell us which person is and which person is not born again?

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. Yes I can.

B. No I can not.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

 

[Episkopos]

The Book of John

Chapter 3

Verse 5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Can you read all the post by each person that post on this web site or any web site and tell us which person is and which person is not born again?

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. Yes I can.

B. No I can not.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

It must be B.

 

[watsoncarl53]

It must be B.

How come?

 

[Episkopos]

How come?

One can only get to know someone through writing over a bit of time. Some will appear to be in Christ...but really aren't and some will not seem at first to be...but are. Judge nothing before the time.

 

[watsoncarl53]

One can only get to know someone through writing over a bit of time. Some will appear to be in Christ...but really aren't and some will not seem at first to be...but are. Judge nothing before the time.

Those who are born of the Spirit are lead by the Spirit of God and cannot be deceived by those not born of the Spirit.

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. True.

B. False.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

 

[Episkopos]

Those who are born of the Spirit are lead by the Spirit of God and cannot be deceived by those not born of the Spirit.

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. True.

B. False.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

A

 

[watsoncarl53]

How long ago was the last lie you told?

Were you born again when you told it?

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. Yes I was born again at that time.

B. No I was not born again at that time.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

 

[watsoncarl53]

The Spirit of the Lord is leading me.

 

[Episkopos]

How long ago was the last lie you told?

Were you born again when you told it?

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. Yes I was born again at that time.

B. No I was not born again at that time.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

B

 

[watsoncarl53]

Anyone that tells a lie is not born again.

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. True

B. False

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

 

[watsoncarl53]

Anyone that tells a lie is not born again.

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. True

B. False

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

Those who are born of the Spirit are lead by the Spirit of God and cannot be deceived by those not born of the Spirit,

would know the answer to this question.

Multiply choice..Choose 1.

A. True they would know the answer to this question.

B. No they would not know the answer to this question.

One is correct and one is incorrect.

Please no theories or commentaries on this question.

Just pick A. or B.

 

[Phillip]

In the OP it is stated that there is a big difference between someone who reforms their character for themselves and someone who is translated into the beloved.

Here are the things that I see demarcate between one who is reformed and one who is transformed.

Love. The 4th dimension is invisible to our eyes and it is made up of love. God dwells there. We abide in Christ there. That is why John says that if we don't love we don't know God. We are to love as Jesus loved from WHERE He is. This love is a supernatural one and is fearless. Perfect love (His love) casts out ALL fear (save the fear of the Lord). There is a boldness in this love so that the person who has been born in the Spirit wishes to proclaim to the world this great secret about God and the purpose of our being created. So I would say that the second indicator is a holy fearlessness towards men. The fear of God is so great that no other fear is possible. Thelove of God and fear of God are uniquely combined to form one attribute in the one who is born from above.

The Spiritual place called Zion is where we abide in Christ. One who is born again from above is born in Zion.

Nice post.

I would like to point out that the OP basically speaks of sanctification. The big thing about when I sanctify myself now in the New Everlasting Marriage Covenant in Christ's Blood, it includes being fully repentent and dead to myself, yet being alive because I am filled with the Holy Spirit of Christ in me. Him who is from Heaven Coming into me is His part of the sanctification process, that makes us holy and sinless. Something never able to be prior to Christ's resurrection, glorification and Coming as the Holy Spirit, Christ in our flesh.
I will be with you always even unto the ends of the world... I shall never leave nor forsake you. A New Creature we are, One with Christ as dead to this world and filled with Christ from Heaven, Born from Above.
He is Come