The Twelve Tribes of Israel
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I have already told you. The antichrist will be from the Tribe of Dan, according to Genesis 49. It is my opinion that Dan is currently Italy. It is highly unlikely that there are any Assyrians in Italy.
You have already stated that you do not agree with me - and no one does - but that's O.K. Time will tell.
I will be looking for someone from Italy. You can look for an Assyrian. Someone else will look for another nationality, etc., etc., etc.
Thread hijackers!
Who cares where the Anti-Christ comes from? He could be an Eskimo for all I care.
We know he will rise to become the dictator of the coming One World Govt. What I see that people are unaware of is, what will happen to enable an OWG to be formed. This event should be our focus - for another thread.
The OP of this thread is how it will only be those truly love the Lord and keep is Laws, that will included as 'sons of God's right hand'. All the rest will be like deleted pawns.
Who cares where the Anti-Christ comes from? He could be an Eskimo for all I care.
We know he will rise to become the dictator of the coming One World Govt. What I see that people are unaware of is, what will happen to enable an OWG to be formed. This event should be our focus - for another thread.
The OP of this thread is how it will only be those truly love the Lord and keep is Laws, that will included as 'sons of God's right hand'. All the rest will be like deleted pawns.
There isn't going to be a One World Government - just peace treaties that the antichrist will be able to forge with every nation on Earth - bringing peace to the entire planet.
God will be the one who causes those peace treaties to be broken when He puts it into the heads of a few leaders to break those treaties. THIS is what is Biblically known as "The Day of the Lord" and what will be secularly known as World War III. The Tribulation will end when Jesus arrives and begins the 1000 years of actual peace.
Very simply, Revelation is about the rise of a dictator and the results of the world war that follows. If Jesus Christ didn't return, all of mankind would be annihilated.
...and it DOES matter where the antichrist comes from so that you know what you are looking for when everyone else is deceived, ESPECIALLY the pre-Tribbers who will NOT be whisked away.
God will be the one who causes those peace treaties to be broken when He puts it into the heads of a few leaders to break those treaties. THIS is what is Biblically known as "The Day of the Lord" and what will be secularly known as World War III. The Tribulation will end when Jesus arrives and begins the 1000 years of actual peace.
Very simply, Revelation is about the rise of a dictator and the results of the world war that follows. If Jesus Christ didn't return, all of mankind would be annihilated.
...and it DOES matter where the antichrist comes from so that you know what you are looking for when everyone else is deceived, ESPECIALLY the pre-Tribbers who will NOT be whisked away.
John S said:
[SIZE=14pt]V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the (b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan, who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his false messiah and false prophet, some believing that he is the true God. It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) and the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam.) This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," (Rev. 17:16) and appear to destroy her, which is clearly false righteousness for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as "the beast?" Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D. under Constantine. He and his very influential mother Helena, began the conversion of the empire into a military and religious body, for many reasons, including the main one, effective control of the empire and people. Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original "Holy Roman Empire." Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24 another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21 and 7:25. In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one[/SIZE] head, implying that the 7 nations have become one power (Confederation,) under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which was divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgressions," (against Israel) are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up." This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him (Satan) in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.) His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 8:23,) (7:8) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) and (Rev. 13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.
[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power[/SIZE] (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)
[SIZE=14pt]There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]
Sorry I don't see this in Gen 49...maybe you can qualify this, AND why you think the antichrist will come from Italy?John S said:
Thank you folks for caring!
Only a head's up, ie, that Antichrist has been around for well over a 1,000 years thus no sense looking forward to him in some future time??? Satan is personally defeated, and in the abyss (hell) thus no sense trying to look for him???
Think more in terms of a remnant of Jews that become Jewish Christians, and not the 12 tribes that were rejected loooooong ago.
Old Jack
Only a head's up, ie, that Antichrist has been around for well over a 1,000 years thus no sense looking forward to him in some future time??? Satan is personally defeated, and in the abyss (hell) thus no sense trying to look for him???
Think more in terms of a remnant of Jews that become Jewish Christians, and not the 12 tribes that were rejected loooooong ago.
Old Jack
I explained my reasons in the part that you quoted from my interpretations of Genesis 49 - Jacob's prophecies from God telling Jacob just what will become of his son's Tribes.StanJ said:
You don't have to agree with me - and that's fine.
I am looking for a man from Italy. You can look for someone from somewhere else. Someone else can look elsewhere.
Thank you for your response and caring again!Floyd said:
From my short stay on earth, things always have to get worse before they get better thus looking for when they get better - should be soon. Thank you again.
Old Jack
Oh I see you're one of those that uses forums as a platform for your PsOV sand not to discuss or learn anything.John S said:
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shabbat shalom, StanJ.
Shabbat shalom, Jack.
Have you ever noticed that in the New Jerusalem there are twelve gates named for the twelve tribes of Isra'el and NOT A ONE of them is named "For the Gentiles?" So, to which tribe of Isra'el do YOU belong?
How do you know it's not Levi that is in its place?StanJ said:
Shabbat shalom, Jack.
But, the twelve tribes were NOT "rejected long ago!" They were TEMPORARILY BLINDED while allowing the Goyim (Gentiles) to come into the family! You just need to read and re-read Romans chapters 9 through 11 until it dawns on you what PAUL was saying. (NOT what others SAY Paul was saying.)shturt678 said:
Have you ever noticed that in the New Jerusalem there are twelve gates named for the twelve tribes of Isra'el and NOT A ONE of them is named "For the Gentiles?" So, to which tribe of Isra'el do YOU belong?
Retrobyter - Levi is listed in both Genesis 49 AND Revelations.
In other words, Levi isn't replacing any other Tribe.
Dan is replaced by Manasseh and probably Ephraim combined, although that Tribe isn't mentioned.
In other words, Levi isn't replacing any other Tribe.
Dan is replaced by Manasseh and probably Ephraim combined, although that Tribe isn't mentioned.
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Between the iPad and the message board, I can't get the quote function to work... So -
Retro: Good point about the New Jerusalem Gates and the twelve tribes. Interesting that Jesus didn't have John list the twelve names.
I have for some time, thought that the 144,000 were Christian because they 1. were Firstfruits of the Harvest, and 2. followed Jesus. Since they are Firstfruits of the Harvest, that example dictates they are of the same type. In the sense that there are four "Israels" (the man, the land, the physical offspring, and the spiritual nation) and the list in Rev 7 differs from every other (and there are many orders of the tribes in the OT numbering between 10 and 13) - it could very well be a reference to the inclusion of the Church as the spiritual Israel Paul expounds upon.
The fact that the Church will be grafted into natural Israel is proved by the final naming of the gates. Again, it's a good question: 'Which tribe will you be in Heaven?'
Retro: Good point about the New Jerusalem Gates and the twelve tribes. Interesting that Jesus didn't have John list the twelve names.
I have for some time, thought that the 144,000 were Christian because they 1. were Firstfruits of the Harvest, and 2. followed Jesus. Since they are Firstfruits of the Harvest, that example dictates they are of the same type. In the sense that there are four "Israels" (the man, the land, the physical offspring, and the spiritual nation) and the list in Rev 7 differs from every other (and there are many orders of the tribes in the OT numbering between 10 and 13) - it could very well be a reference to the inclusion of the Church as the spiritual Israel Paul expounds upon.
The fact that the Church will be grafted into natural Israel is proved by the final naming of the gates. Again, it's a good question: 'Which tribe will you be in Heaven?'
I don't go with that Marcus; as IMO, since Acts28:25-28, the prime object of God is to build the Body of Christ, which will complete when the "times of the Gentiles" is completed.Marcus O'Reillius said:
The 144,000 are definitely of the then 12 tribes of Israel, as named in Rev.7.
As regards the "grafting in" of the Gentiles; this in at least tentative thought; may be in the "new heaven and new earth"; but is not linked to Paul's comments re. his efforts to make "Israel jealous"
Floyd.
12,000 of the 144,000 members of the Elect will be Jewish from the Tribe of Judah. The other 132,000 will be Christians from the other Tribes, which had been "Lost" to mankind but have NOT been "lost" to God or to Jacob, when he gave his prophecies concerning his sons Tribes, in Genesis 49.
NO ONE decides which Tribe that they will belong to. That has been determined by their birth. Americans are of one of the Tribes of Joseph - as of Genesis 49.
NO ONE decides which Tribe that they will belong to. That has been determined by their birth. Americans are of one of the Tribes of Joseph - as of Genesis 49.
As said before J. I don't go with this statement.John S said:
Rev. 7 gives the detail of each Tribe!
If you argue against clear statements in Scripture, you must beware the consequences.
Floyd.
Again the 10 tribes have disappeared. Not so the two tribes that constituted Judaism in Paul's time. They will endure until the last Gentile is brought into the Kingdom, and the Lord returns for the great judgment - the remnant of Jews that become Jewish Christians of course.Retrobyter said:
Old Jack
Floyd - If you are a moderator who is threatening me with expulsion because I am not towing the "party line", then tell me and I will leave of my own free will. If that is the case, then this used to be a much more lenient site than it is now.
If you are not a moderator, then it is none of your gosh darn business what I write.
If you are not a moderator, then it is none of your gosh darn business what I write.
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