The "twice dead" are of the beast that was (alive) but is now dead

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Stewardofthemystery

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I am convinced by the Word of God, and by the Holy Spirit that the “twice dead”are of the beast that was (alive) but now is not.

This beast that was alive, but is not, is shown coming out of the bottomless pit, which shows something is being revived or resurrected in the world. I believe that which is being Revived or resurrected in the world is also working in those who have fallen away from the faith. So what is being revived ? It is sin, or more precisely, it is the “sin nature” of the first man/beast that is being revived in those who had fallen away from the faith.



The twice dead are mentioned in Jude chapter 1 verse 12. But I want you to compare what Peter says below to what Jude says concerning this same group of people. I will highlight Peters words and then post Judes words so you can better compare.

2 Peter 1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. ( Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.)

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment
; (Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.)

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly
; (Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.)

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities
.(Jude 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.)

11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.(Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.)

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;(Jude 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.)

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; ( Jude 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;)

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; ( Jude 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.)

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.(Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.)

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.(Jude 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.)

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto themaccording to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”


To be continued…
 
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Stewardofthemystery

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Notice above both Peter and Jude say these are “brute beasts” who were feasting with them. These people are false prophets and false teachers, even members among them who had forsaken the right way and were now walking in the lusts of the flesh.

Basically these are those who had fallen away from the faith. And also notice in Jude we are told they once had fruit, but their fruit withered, now being without fruit, and “twice dead”.

If someone is twice dead spiritually, they had to be alive spiritually at one point in time. So this tells me, these men that were feasting with them had fallen away from the faith unto perdition.

Jesus spoke of those branches who do not abide in Him, that would wither and die, and were to burned.

John 15:6 “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I always wondered why the body of the beast that was, and is not, along with the false prophet were the first to be cast alive into the lake of fire, which is the “second death.”

I believe it is because the first judgment begins at the house of God, as is written in 1 Peter 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

Think about it, when Christ comes to reign on earth with His Kings and priests, He is going to remove all the workers of iniquity, the hypocrites, the pretenders, the false teachers and the false prophets out of His Kingdom.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 13:41“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;”

So at that time all those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire. But the rest of the dead will not be judged until after the thousand year reign of Christ.

Peter said in the above “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome,the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”

Jesus said the same concerning the last state of this wicked generation who would fall away from the faith…Matthew 12… 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

And in Luke 11 24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”

This is the mystery of iniquity, this is the “man of sin” that is being revealed“in” them who have fallen away from the faith and are going into perdition.
 
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Stewardofthemystery

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The beast that was, and is not, and yet is, is the opposite of Christ.

Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore

So spiritually speaking how does on become twice dead? Notice what Paul says…

Romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

So reviving sin can cause one to die spiritually. So to be spiritually dead twice, the process would be being firstborn dead in your sins, then made alive by spiritual rebirth in Christ, only to die again by reviving sin.

It would be like resurrecting that old Adam sin nature.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Think about it, when Christ comes to reign on earth with His Kings and priests, He is going to remove all the workers of iniquity, the hypocrites, the pretenders, the false teachers and the false prophets out of His Kingdom.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 13:41“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;”

So at that time all those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire. But the rest of the dead will not be judged until after the thousand year reign of Christ.
When you talk about "those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord", are you talking about the same ones "who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" that Paul referenced here:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If so, then you didn't read this passage very carefully. The ones who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord that Paul referenced here are all in Christ and will all be caught up to Meet the Lord in the air and then be with the Lord forever.

As for Matthew 13:41 why do you think that has something to do with Jesus reigning in His kingdom on the earth?

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Notice that at that point "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.". Note the reference to "the kingdom of their Father". That shows that Jesus will have delivered His kingdom to the Father at that point just as Paul taught as well.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

An earthly kingdom of Christ would not be called "the kingdom of their Father". Jesus's kingdom that we are in now (Col 1:12-13) did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36), which means it's a spiritual, heavenly kingdom and not an earthly kingdom.
 

PinSeeker

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SOTM, can you put all these thoughts into a very small nutshell and state your point (or points...) with all this? :)

Grace and peace to you.
 

Stewardofthemystery

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When you talk about "those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord", are you talking about the same ones "who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" that Paul referenced here:
No I made it clear who I was talking about here….

So at that time all those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire
 

Stewardofthemystery

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SOTM, can you put all these thoughts into a very small nutshell and state your point (or points...) with all this? :)

Grace and peace to you.
All those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire.

Hebrews 10:26-31

King James Version

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
 

PinSeeker

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All those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire.
Hmmm. Well, I think you are conflating a couple of very different things here. I pointed out what John says (in 1 John 2:19) regarding those who fall away, or "go out from us"... He says:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

So I submit to you here that those who fall away into sin were always dead in their sin, even though it may have appeared to us they were no longer dead in their sin... and they may have even thought for a time that they were no longer dead in sin. John does say that as a result not being "of us," it has "become plain," or is now outwardly evident, that they are "not of us."

Now, as for "twice dead," Jude is speaking there of God's judgment on false teachers, who, because they are teaching and thus influencing others and teaching them contrary to God's Word, God will judge them with greater strictness than those who do not teach, in the same sense in which James says exactly that in James 3:1. This idea of "lesser" and "greater" pervades Scripture in many places and in many ways...

So it's not that they "die twice" in any sense, but that they are, even in this life ~ and will be, even in the final Judgment ~ judged by God in a (much) greater strictness, and even to a much greater degree... because not only are they going astray but they are leading others astray also... This is a bit tongue-in-cheek, I guess, but it's a bit like saying that, "Yes, dead is dead, but many are dead while some out of those many dead are really really dead." Now, I'm chuckling a bit when I say that, but it is certainly no laughing matter.

Grace and peace to you
 
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Stewardofthemystery

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So I submit to you here that those who fall away into sin were always dead in their sin, even though it may have appeared to us they were no longer dead in their sin... and they may have even thought for a time that they were no longer dead in sin.

I submit to you The multiple warnings….

1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall “depart from the faith,”giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and “it fell:”and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall “fall”into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both “fall” into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he “fall.”

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride “he fall”into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest “he fall”into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich “fall into temptation”and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man “fall” after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall “fall away,”to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man “draw back,” my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who “draw back”unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Acts 7:38-39 “ This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts “turned back”again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and “looking back,” is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife “looked back”from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation “fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, “ye shall never fall:

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, “fall from”your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art “fallen,”and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man “turneth away”from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous “turneth from”his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby
 

Spiritual Israelite

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No I made it clear who I was talking about here….


So at that time all those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, who had fallen away from the faith back into sin, being twice dead, go directly into the second death, or the lake of fire
Okay, but you should refer to them in a different way to avoid any possible confusion because the phrase "those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" will make everyone immediately think of 1 Thessalonians 4:15.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Sure. Thanks. <smile> I mean, yeah, I really mean that... Warnings for us all. Thank you.

Grace and peace to you.
Really? Hmmmm. I assume you are still a Calvinist? In what sense could a warning about departing from the faith be a warning for the elect in your view?
 

Stewardofthemystery

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Okay, but you should refer to them in a different way to avoid any possible confusion because the phrase "those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" will make everyone immediately think of 1 Thessalonians 4:15.
I said it that way because some might think I’m talking about the physically dead going into the lake of fire first.

Notice the body of the beast and false prophet are the first to go into the lake of fire, and they are alive when this happens.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I said it that way because some might think I’m talking about the physically dead going into the lake of fire first.

Notice the body of the beast and false prophet are the first to go into the lake of fire, and they are alive when this happens.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that you think Revelation 20:11-15 is about people who are physically dead and unconscious being cast into the lake of fire? If so, how can they appear before the throne to give an account of themselves and their works if they are literally dead and unconscious? I know that Rev 20:11-15 refers to the dead being judged, but they will be bodily alive and conscious because they will have to give an account of themselves and they will have been bodily resurrected just prior to that (John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:2, Acts 24:15).
 

PinSeeker

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Really. <smile>

Hmmmm. I assume you are still a Calvinist?
Yes. A "five-pointer." <smile>

In what sense could a warning about departing from the faith be a warning for the elect in your view?
In the same sense that Paul exhorts us to "make our calling and election sure." He's not certainly not saying we can lose it... if we are truly elect and truly regenerate, born again of the Spirit. Certainly, the faith we've been given should result in good works, in which case our calling and election would be validated/evidenced outwardly, both to others and to ourselves. So it becomes more about the ongoing responsibility and response to God because of what He has done for us. To not see it as a warning to the elect ~ albeit in a little bit different context than to unbelievers ~ would be to look at it in a bit of a hyper-Calvinistic (which is not really Calvinistic) way.

At the very least, we should see all of Scripture as very relevant to all of us, right? Depending on where we are spiritually, the point of relevancy may differ, but there is nothing in Scripture irrelevant to any of us.

Grace and peace to you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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In the same sense that Paul exhorts us to "make our calling and election sure." He's not certainly not saying we can lose it... if we are truly elect and truly regenerate, born again of the Spirit. Certainly, the faith we've been given should result in good works, in which case our calling and election would be validated/evidenced outwardly, both to others and to ourselves. So it becomes more about the ongoing responsibility and response to God because of what He has done for us. To not see it as a warning to the elect ~ albeit in a little bit different context than to unbelievers ~ would be to look at it in a bit of a hyper-Calvinistic (which is not really Calvinistic) way.

At the very least, we should see all of Scripture as very relevant to all of us, right? Depending on where we are spiritually, the point of relevancy may differ, but there is nothing in Scripture irrelevant to any of us.
In your view what would be the result of an elect, born again person not heeding those warnings, specifically from an eternal perspective?

The following passage is one of the passages referenced, so I assume you're saying this is something we all need to take to heart.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

You said that the passages that were quoted are warnings for all of us who are born again. So, with that in mind, what is the end result that we would expect if we were to "depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" while "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having" our "conscience seared with a hot iron"? What are the consequences of departing from the faith in the way that Paul described that could happen to any of us if we're not careful?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I don’t think you can understand my speech.

John 8:43
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
LOL. Get over yourself. A true Bible teacher does not take offense if someone asks them to clarify what they're saying. So, it's no wonder that you are not willing to do so since you don't know what you're talking about. It's actually wise for me to ask you for clarification so that I make sure I'm understanding you correctly, but that's not something I would expect you to understand. You must have realized that your view that people will be dead and unconscious while standing before the throne before being cast into the lake of fire makes no sense. If I'm misrepresenting your view by saying that, don't blame me, blame yourself for foolishly not being willing to bother clarifying what you were saying.