Hi L, I agree there is no unity, except false among the denominations however in the Body of Christ there is much unity.
Can you tell us what truths you see of Christ that we, (true believers) all agree on?
The Unity of the faith.
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Can you tell us what truths you see of Christ that we, (true believers) all agree on?
Good reply, there Matthew. So, can you tell us some of the truths of Christ that we need to stand for against the errors?
Hi stunnedbygrace,
Glad you joined us in this discussion. Yes, we need to trust the Lord and be guided by His Holy Spirit.
So, (no. 2) can you tell us some of the truths we need to know and stand for about the Lord, so we are not `tossed to and fro...?`
Only to encourage to read the Bible it is most sufficient than myself. What are your thoughts about it?
God can only really correct our errors right? There are so many people out here who believe different things.
Would you say that you believe God sends people to hell now today?
Do you believe unbelievers are done away with after this life, and they are never to be seen from or heard from again?
Are you someone who believes that Jesus Christ has came back?
Do you believe that God sent his Word which became flesh named Jesus, lived a perfect life, died, was buried and resurrected, and promised to return again?
Errors? There are people in Mormonism, and other different religions, all I know is that God is able to communicate with people by and through the natural creation.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork.
With this God works on the conscious, the mind, and the heart of an individual that sees him with-in that creation, then you have the Old Testament Stories of the Minor Prophets, and Major Prophets, Proverbs, Poetry and Psalms, and General History, then you have Jesus Christ who is able to speak with a person through the Gospels, there are revelations through out the Apostolic Record with use of the Old Testament. The next thing is the Spirit, and that is where people should be in Christ as he is their life which is spiritual now being born again having newness of life, that is the primary thing for a Christian to learn to live by, faith, prayer, and the spirit which is given by God to have love for God and love for our neighbor.
Therefore, when it comes to unity of the faith.
Love is the primary answer, and the Spirit is primary for the life of the Christian who's life is found in the Lord Jesus, which brings forth newness of life!
1 Corinthians 13; plus Faith. That is what faith and works are. Faith and Love, and that Love is produced by the Spirit of Christ with-in the new believer - which he produces, when the individuals goes to God and ask him to help them by the spirit.
Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”
Your thoughts?
God can only really correct our errors right? There are so many people out here who believe different things.
Would you say that you believe God sends people to hell now today?
Do you believe unbelievers are done away with after this life, and they are never to be seen from or heard from again?
Are you someone who believes that Jesus Christ has came back?
Do you believe that God sent his Word which became flesh named Jesus, lived a perfect life, died, was buried and resurrected, and promised to return again?
Errors? There are people in Mormonism, and other different religions, all I know is that God is able to communicate with people by and through the natural creation.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork.
With this God works on the conscious, the mind, and the heart of an individual that sees him with-in that creation, then you have the Old Testament Stories of the Minor Prophets, and Major Prophets, Proverbs, Poetry and Psalms, and General History, then you have Jesus Christ who is able to speak with a person through the Gospels, there are revelations through out the Apostolic Record with use of the Old Testament. The next thing is the Spirit, and that is where people should be in Christ as he is their life which is spiritual now being born again having newness of life, that is the primary thing for a Christian to learn to live by, faith, prayer, and the spirit which is given by God to have love for God and love for our neighbor.
Therefore, when it comes to unity of the faith.
Love is the primary answer, and the Spirit is primary for the life of the Christian who's life is found in the Lord Jesus, which brings forth newness of life!
1 Corinthians 13; plus Faith. That is what faith and works are. Faith and Love, and that Love is produced by the Spirit of Christ with-in the new believer - which he produces, when the individuals goes to God and ask him to help them by the spirit.
Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”
Your thoughts?
Well…
We need to believe Him that He can make us truly righteous. A lot of lies are told that beat down our trust about what He’s said about it. But He said those who hunger and thirst for true righteousness in their inner man will be filled. But instead we are told we only have some sort of positional righteousness and that’s it until after we die. And if we hunger for true righteousness we’re sometimes Screamed at to try to silence us so no one else will hear our hope and begin to also hope for the promises enough that we actually grab them.
And we’re given lists to tick off everything someone else says we must believe exactly as them and creeds to recite when it’s trust that takes us to where we want, not what others say we must believe.
I better stop there or I won’t be able to stop…
The first truth we have to accept that is OF THE FAITH is by his D B & R he secured us salvation from our sins debt through his shed blood.
We have to believe God's LOVE is so great he sent his only begotten Son for a propititation for those sins.
We have to believe this love removes our past sins when we repent with godly sorrow and make confession of a tranformation into a new life.
The truth of the Word is proclaimed in the Christ own words and commands and are to be obeyed.
We believe in the authority of Christ as creator and over all powers and principalities.
For starters
Behold
Well-Known Member
Exactly the moment that everyone actually understands the Cross of Christ.
As at that moment, all who are fallen from Grace will stop causing the strife and the chaos on all forums, and in all pulpits, and in all Vatican's.
It'll never happen.
But, for those who come to the knowledge of what it means to HAVE BECOME" = ""the righteousness of God, IN Christ"< there is a genuine spiritual bond they feel and they possess with each other and with PAUL the Apostle.
Not if we don’t have any errors He can’t. But everyone is convinced they don’t have any.
So, I hear from everyone so far, that a great Truth of Christ is that He has saved us.
That is the very first truth we need to accept if we are to be set in the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 18)
Good that we agree there. Moving on to other great truths, that incidentally people have been martyred for over the years.
What in another great truth of Christ that His Holy Spirit has guided the Body of Christ over the years to understand?
That is the very first truth we need to accept if we are to be set in the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 18)
Good that we agree there. Moving on to other great truths, that incidentally people have been martyred for over the years.
What in another great truth of Christ that His Holy Spirit has guided the Body of Christ over the years to understand?
Hello. I tend to think this is not related to a future event but rather the past as relates to the early church and the need back then for the various miraculous gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10. I've done a study on this subject and will post some of this below which ties in 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Ephesians 4, and Galatians. I think most look at the subject of the gifts of the Spirit all wrong and don't consider the time frame properly, the issues that were present and had to be addressed in the early church, and who the letters were written to which was not us nor in our time of living. Anyway, see below which may give you some insight into this. Keep in mind, this is on a slightly different topic, but that does definitely overlap with your Ephesians scripture.
Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.
First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.
Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.
And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.
You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?
The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.
The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image. Ref below 1 Cor 13:12 and below 2 Cor 3 primarily verse 18 to understand what "face to face" is, namely, now we can, as they could, see a reflection of Christ metaphorically when looking into a mirror or "glass" because we now have Christ as they also did then, and are part of him, as opposed to under the old covenant as noted with the Moses comparison or analogy, or when Moses is read as was stated in the scripture.
To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.
I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.
1 Corinthians 12:8-31
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many.
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Galatians 3:23-27
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 4:7-16
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.
First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.
Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.
And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.
You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?
The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.
The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image. Ref below 1 Cor 13:12 and below 2 Cor 3 primarily verse 18 to understand what "face to face" is, namely, now we can, as they could, see a reflection of Christ metaphorically when looking into a mirror or "glass" because we now have Christ as they also did then, and are part of him, as opposed to under the old covenant as noted with the Moses comparison or analogy, or when Moses is read as was stated in the scripture.
To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.
I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.
1 Corinthians 12:8-31
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many.
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Galatians 3:23-27
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 4:7-16
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
I'm not sure who is included in "we all". But ideally one should expect the unity of the faith in his or her own church. If there is a Statement of Faith, then all members of that church should be in full agreement. If not they should find a more compatible church.
BTW someone else has almost duplicate this thread.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
The last days is the key Marilyn. Israel has never beat their swords into plowshares, to date. Verse 4
Jehovah is God, Jesus is His son, Christians do not participate in carnal warfare, hell is not hot, etc
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Hi Enoch,
So, can we look at some truths of the Statement of Faith you adhere to? Maybe we can find more truths we agree on than not.
Marilyn.
If that was so, Bob, then what would be the use of standing for truths now?
Agree that Israel and the other nations have not as yet laid down their arms. That will happen under the Lord`s rule (from above) through Israel over the nations.
And those other comments are good truths, that we stand for, thank you.
Hi Matthew,
Thank you for asking. As I look back over the centuries, I see that the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Body of Christ into all Truth. We know that the Apostle Paul gave the Ephesians the whole Counsel of God, (Acts 20: 27) but also warned them that errors would come in. (Acts 20: 28 - 30) And these errors we can see over the centuries -
Leaders began to `lord it over` others and a hierarchy developed and connected to the Political system. All sorts of errors came in to lead the people away from Christ and to `idols` and control under man`s religious system.
Eventually a great move of God came as people began to move away from the established religious system and believe in Christ alone. However other errors still prevailed. Then over the centuries more revelation came, and believers began to understand the need of a believer`s baptism in water and not for infants.
Later, other great moves bringing a holiness movement where people saw that it was their lives that needed to be holy and not just an organisation`s membership. Then last century it became emphasised concerning the function of the Holy Spirit in a believer`s life.
Many people have been ostracized or even martyred for such beliefs that we today take for granted. So, are there any truth there that believers do not agree with today? I think we, the Body of Christ are being brought to the unity of the faith by the Holy Spirit.
The final truth of Christ`s purposes is the one that is most hotly contested. This too will come clear and we will, I believe have reached the unity of the faith, what we believe of Christ and His purposes.
Marilyn.
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