The unpopular (but deadly) truth of conditional salvation

[Wormwood]

“If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.” (2 Peter 2:20–21, NIV84)

“εἰ γὰρ ἀποφυγόντες τὰ μιάσματα τοῦ κόσμου ἐν ἐπιγνώσει τοῦ κυρίου [ἡμῶν] καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, τούτοις δὲ πάλιν ἐμπλακέντες ἡττῶνται, γέγονεν αὐτοῖς τὰ ἔσχατα χείρονα τῶν πρώτων. κρεῖττον γὰρ ἦν αὐτοῖς μὴ ἐπεγνωκέναι τὴν ὁδὸν τῆς δικαιοσύνης ἢ ἐπιγνοῦσιν ὑποστρέψαι ἐκ τῆς παραδοθείσης αὐτοῖς ἁγίας ἐντολῆς.” (2 Peter 2:20–21, NA27)

This conditional construction is different than the "de/ean" construction discussed before. If here is "ei" which is usually translated "if" and especially so in this case as "de" (but) is used later in the sentence as a logical connective conjunction. The verse is pretty straight forward as it is translated. Perhaps the only word to note is "epiginosko" which is translated "known." This word is derived from two words "epi" which can mean "on, against, over" and "gnosis" which means knowledge. It means to thoroughly know and be completely and practically familiar with something. This is not merely a cursory knowledge, but a very first-hand and complete understanding of something.

That being said evangelist, this is one of those issues where the Greek likely does not solve all the theological dilemmas people have with a passage like this. I would agree with you that this is speaking of Christians who abandon the faith but some would argue that this is merely those who have a very good understanding of the Gospel but then reject it and are never truly "born again." I don't think the Greek is entirely definitive, but I have my own personal perspectives based on the context and other passages in the New Testament. If only the Greek could solve all our theological differences. :)

 

[John Zain]

Many thanks for your help, Wormwood.

 

[horsecamp]

here is what Jesus says ----THIS IS THE CONDITION ONE MUST MEET

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


NONE OF US ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO ACOMPLISH IT

WE ALL SIN AND FALL SHORT OF GODS GLORY ..



we like to point fingures at what we think as worse sins than our own such as homosexuality or murder

yet the bible says

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

we sin not only in deed but in our minds also

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.




we also sin by ommision not doing the things we should

Luke 10:25-37
[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” ...




with out faith in Jesus being perfect for us there is no hope at all for any one..

READ "ALL" OF HEBREWS CHAPTER 10

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=HEBREWS%2010&version=NIV





THE REASON GOD DOES NOT WANT US TO ""'DELIBERTLY SIN""



IS AS STATED IN HEBREWS 10 ----IT CAN DETROY FAITH IN JESUS CRUCIFIED FOR YOU AND ME..

A DELIBERT SIN WILL NOT KEEP YOU OR ANY ONE ELSE OUT OF HEAVEN BUT DESTROYED FAITH IN JESUS CRUCIFIED FOR THAT SIN OF YOURS WILL..

IN OTHER WORDS

SIN HAS THE DEADLY POTENTUAL OF DESTROYING SAVING FAITH IN JESUS WHO WON YOUR FORGIVNESS FOR THAT SIN..


AS THE SONG GOES IF YOU THINK OF ANY SIN BUT LITELY LOOK AT WHAT YOUR SIN DID TO CHRIST UPON THE CROSS .


and lets be honest we all think of our own sins more litly than the heavy sins of the other person .. so why DOES
God allows any of us to keep saving faith in Jesus ?

if were honest we all must admit The only reason God should is For Jesus sake alone it is him who died for us..

===========================================================================

If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but
the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the
true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only
imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let
your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the
victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we
are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We,
however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new
heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that
through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the
sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to
kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think
such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager
sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.

from Luthers letter to melancthan


now in my words

none of us deserve to be saved by Gods grace through faith in Jesus alone
BECAUSE WERE ALL UGLY SINNERS . YET THEIR IS NO SIN OR NO AMOUNT OF SINS THAT CHRIST DEATH DID NOT PAY FOR IN FULL

EVEN IF WE WERE TO MURDER AND RAPE THE WHOLE WORLD.

Either sin is with you, lying on your shoulders, or it is lying on Christ, the Lamb of God. Now if it is lying on your back, you are lost; but if it is resting on Christ, you are free, and you will be saved. Now choose what you want. --Martin Luther

 

[John Zain]

[SIZE=10pt]Hebrews 4:14-16, AMP[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Inasmuch then as we have a great High Priest Who has [already] ascended and passed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession [of faith in Him].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt](the throne of God’s unmerited favor to us sinners), [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]that we may receive mercy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 1:7-10, NKJV[/SIZE] …
[SIZE=10pt]"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]the [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]blood[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous! [/SIZE]

 

[williemac]

[SIZE=10pt]Hebrews 4:14-16, AMP[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Inasmuch then as we have a great High Priest Who has [already] ascended and passed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession [of faith in Him].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt](the throne of God’s unmerited favor to us sinners), [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]that we may receive mercy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 1:7-10, NKJV[/SIZE] …
[SIZE=10pt]"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]the [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]blood[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous! [/SIZE]

You want to play this game? This is the exact same post you made on another thread. Here is my reply to it:

You keep repeating this error and I will keep correcting it. Throughout the whole bible, all have sinned and fall short of God's glory and there is NONE righteous. Then in the new testament, it is revealed that righteousness is a GIFT. (Rom.5:15-19.) And vs.19 reveals that it is by ONE Man's obedience that we are made righteous. Get it? We are not righteous because of our own obedience but rather because of His obedience. Obedience to what? THE LAW!!

How do we know this? Phil 3:9--"..and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,, but that which is through faith in Christ...THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS FROM GOD BY FAITH"

Therefore since righteousness comes as a gift through faith, then it can only be maintained the same way it came. If it is maintained by continual confession and repentance, then we are in for a rough ride throughout our christian walk. What happens if a person dies with unconfessed sin in his life? You want to open up that can of worms? Nowhere in 1John can we determine that righteousness is 'maintained' by confessing and repenting of sin. NOWHERE! You are adding that conclusion into the text, either by your own doing or by what you have been taught.

Forgiveness of sin comes from the acknowledgment of it and the confession of it. At this point the person is cleansed from all unrighteousness. Your version is that one is cleansed only from past unrighteousness. How then is it that we have been perfected forever, as I shared from Hebrews 10?
1John 1:6-10 is the explanation of a principle regarding salvation. It is a one time event whereby we are given everlasting life, as Jesus promised in John 5:24. Further to that promise, He assured us that we will NOT come into judgment, but HAVE PASSED from death to life.

If we take 1John 1:9 as something that is to be repeated, then we have to conclude that forgiveness is not applicable to future sin, but is reduced to a maintenance program for forgiveness. Therefore we have to conclude that the believer flows in and out of life, righteousness, forgiveness, and salvation, based on his behavior, and needs to keep going to God over and over to get them re-instated. However, Heb.6:1-6 tells us in no uncertain terms that life is granted only ONE TIME and if lost, it is impossible to get it back. So much for your interpretation of 1John 1:9. If one fails to "maintain" his righteousness for a week or two, does this mean he lost it altogether? So much for all the other passages, many which I have shared recently, that say otherwise.

Your problem is possibly that you don't believe or maybe don't trust the good news. You have been duped! I usually don't like to make things personal, but can only suspect and assume that you have been confessing and repenting of your sins over and over out of a fearful expectation of judgment, as Heb.10:27 suggests. But this passage is in the context of having no more sacrifice for sin. And as I shared, this happens through the rejection of the sacrifice offered by Jesus. Putting two and two together, I must ask...have you accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for your sin?...or NOT! just asking....

Did Adam and Eve cover their nakedness themselves, or did God do it for them? You want to do His job? knock yourself out. But if you continue to peddle this leaven to the church, I will continue to oppose it.

Ironically, you began your reply with Heb.4:14-16, where we are told to continue our confession OF FAITH...then you run off to another place and proceed to continue your confession of sin over and over and over and over andoverandoverandoverandoverand (to be continued) :blink: On the other hand, the biblical confession of faith is found in Rom.10:9,10.

 

[John Zain]

Elsewhere, I received a typical response to my Romans 6:15-23 explanation ...
BAC's are not slaves of sin, a BAC has been set free by Christ from the bondage of sin.

And I answered ...

Of course, nothing could be more obviously true!

However, you are not seeing what Paul is saying here in Romans 6:15-23 ...
1) they are no longer slaves of sin
2) they must stop living as if they are slaves of sin
3) they will face eternal death, if they do not stop sinning

Simple as 1-2-3.

What else do you think Paul is going on about?
Think he is teaching them about ...
the unsaved deserve eternal death because they are slaves of sin?
They already know that ... all BACs know that.

Welcome to the incredibly tactful world of Paul writing.

 

[williemac]

Elsewhere, I received a typical response to my Romans 6:15-23 explanation ...
BAC's are not slaves of sin, a BAC has been set free by Christ from the bondage of sin.

And I answered ...

Of course, nothing could be more obviously true!

However, you are not seeing what Paul is saying here in Romans 6:15-23 ...
1) they are no longer slaves of sin
2) they must stop living as if they are slaves of sin
3) they will face eternal death, if they do not stop sinning

Simple as 1-2-3.

What else do you think Paul is going on about?
Think he is teaching them about ...
the unsaved deserve eternal death because they are slaves of sin?
They already know that ... all BACs know that.

Welcome to the incredibly tactful world of Paul writing.

So, no response to my replies. Just more babbling? Jesus said in John 5:24, that those who are of faith will not come under judgment. We find in Heb.10 and other places that our sins have been blotted out from God's memory. They have been paid for by the blood of the Lamb. They are remitted in those who have faith in His blood sacrifice for sin. We are not slaves to sin because sin can no longer kills us. This is also seen in the fact that our old man is dead already, having been positionally crucified with Christ. A slave is one who is captive. We are no longer captive by sin. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through His Son. The consequence of sin no longer applies to we who have placed our faith and trust in the sacrifice of Jesus for sin. We have been set free from the consequence of sin. We are no longer slaves to it therefore. Righteousness now has a hold on us by imputation. It is our new captor. We are righteous by faith, no matter what we actually do or don't do. We are therefore slaves to it, being held captive by it.

Here is the contradiction in your doctrine, and its denial:

If we are to quit sinning in order to be granted eternal life and avoid eternal death,then we are not saved by grace at all. No grace. No mercy. It is all up to us to do all the work. This conclusion of yours denies the work of the cross, the righteousness of God, the free gift of life, the promise of no judgment through our faith.
It denies that while the old man has already been condemned for sin and that consequently, our flesh and blood cannot and will not inherit the kingdom of God, the new man on the other hand is already righteous and holy (Eph.4:24) and will inherit the kingdom. It denies we are a new creation.

It denies the promise that He who began a work in us will complete it. Having begun in the spirit, therefore, you are claiming that we are being made perfect by the flesh (by our quitting sin).

And if that is not enough, you have added to the equation that if we do sin, we have to confess and repent, and then all is reset.

So then by your own admission that you confess your sins to God on a regular basis, you confirm that you have not yet in fact QUIT SINNING. You yourself cannot even consistently do that which you are telling us to do. You are a double minded man, unstable in all your ways, jumping in and out of his favor like a jack rabbit. yeeeesh! Lord help us.

In regards to Rom.6:15-23

I have one more observation. You have added a word to the text, that is not in the text. The word is 'eternal'. The text does not say "eternal death". The text does not imply that a believer faces eternal death through sin. In fact, the letter to the Romans is very clear that through faith in Him, we have the gift of life. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. The gift overrides the wages. That is the whole point. Death reigns from Adam to this present day. This is due to the disobedience of one man. In Rom.5 we can clearly see that through the work and righteousness of the One Man, Jesus, Christ, we are given the free gift of life and righteousness. It is not through our own work and righteousness. You mock the sacrifice of our Savior by adding your own filthy rags to it for justification. Life is a gift of grace through faith. Any other path to life adds the possibility of boasting. You may have something of which to boast...but not before God, my friend. Not before God.

 

[logabe]

So, no response to my replies. Just more babbling? Jesus said in John 5:24, that those who are of faith will not come under judgment. We find in Heb.10 and other places that our sins have been blotted out from God's memory. They have been paid for by the blood of the Lamb. They are remitted in those who have faith in His blood sacrifice for sin. We are not slaves to sin because sin can no longer kills us. This is also seen in the fact that our old man is dead already, having been positionally crucified with Christ. A slave is one who is captive. We are no longer captive by sin. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through His Son. The consequence of sin no longer applies to we who have placed our faith and trust in the sacrifice of Jesus for sin. We have been set free from the consequence of sin. We are no longer slaves to it therefore. Righteousness now has a hold on us by imputation. It is our new captor. We are righteous by faith, no matter what we actually do or don't do. We are therefore slaves to it, being held captive by it.

Here is the contradiction in your doctrine, and its denial:

If we are to quit sinning in order to be granted eternal life and avoid eternal death,then we are not saved by grace at all. No grace. No mercy. It is all up to us to do all the work. This conclusion of yours denies the work of the cross, the righteousness of God, the free gift of life, the promise of no judgment through our faith.
It denies that while the old man has already been condemned for sin and that consequently, our flesh and blood cannot and will not inherit the kingdom of God, the new man on the other hand is already righteous and holy (Eph.4:24) and will inherit the kingdom. It denies we are a new creation.

It denies the promise that He who began a work in us will complete it. Having begun in the spirit, therefore, you are claiming that we are being made perfect by the flesh (by our quitting sin).

And if that is not enough, you have added to the equation that if we do sin, we have to confess and repent, and then all is reset.

So then by your own admission that you confess your sins to God on a regular basis, you confirm that you have not yet in fact QUIT SINNING. You yourself cannot even consistently do that which you are telling us to do. You are a double minded man, unstable in all your ways, jumping in and out of his favor like a jack rabbit. yeeeesh! Lord help us.

I have one more observation. You have added a word to the text, that is not in the text. The word is 'eternal'. The text does not say "eternal death". The text does not imply that a believer faces eternal death through sin. In fact, the letter to the Romans is very clear that through faith in Him, we have the gift of life. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. The gift overrides the wages. That is the whole point. Death reigns from Adam to this present day. This is due to the disobedience of one man. In Rom.5 we can clearly see that through the work and righteousness of the One Man, Jesus, Christ, we are given the free gift of life and righteousness. It is not through our own work and righteousness. You mock the sacrifice of our Savior by adding your own filthy rags to it for justification. Life is a gift of grace through faith. Any other path to life adds the possibility of boasting. You may have something of which to boast...but not before God, my friend. Not before God.

So, no response to my replies. Just more babbling? Jesus said in John 5:24, that those who are of faith will not come under judgment. We find in Heb.10 and other places that our sins have been blotted out from God's memory. They have been paid for by the blood of the Lamb. They are remitted in those who have faith in His blood sacrifice for sin. We are not slaves to sin because sin can no longer kills us. This is also seen in the fact that our old man is dead already, having been positionally crucified with Christ. A slave is one who is captive. We are no longer captive by sin. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through His Son. The consequence of sin no longer applies to we who have placed our faith and trust in the sacrifice of Jesus for sin. We have been set free from the consequence of sin. We are no longer slaves to it therefore. Righteousness now has a hold on us by imputation. It is our new captor. We are righteous by faith, no matter what we actually do or don't do. We are therefore slaves to it, being held captive by it.

Here is the contradiction in your doctrine, and its denial:

If we are to quit sinning in order to be granted eternal life and avoid eternal death,then we are not saved by grace at all. No grace. No mercy. It is all up to us to do all the work. This conclusion of yours denies the work of the cross, the righteousness of God, the free gift of life, the promise of no judgment through our faith.
It denies that while the old man has already been condemned for sin and that consequently, our flesh and blood cannot and will not inherit the kingdom of God, the new man on the other hand is already righteous and holy (Eph.4:24) and will inherit the kingdom. It denies we are a new creation.

It denies the promise that He who began a work in us will complete it. Having begun in the spirit, therefore, you are claiming that we are being made perfect by the flesh (by our quitting sin).

And if that is not enough, you have added to the equation that if we do sin, we have to confess and repent, and then all is reset.

So then by your own admission that you confess your sins to God on a regular basis, you confirm that you have not yet in fact QUIT SINNING. You yourself cannot even consistently do that which you are telling us to do. You are a double minded man, unstable in all your ways, jumping in and out of his favor like a jack rabbit. yeeeesh! Lord help us.

I have one more observation. You have added a word to the text, that is not in the text. The word is 'eternal'. The text does not say "eternal death". The text does not imply that a believer faces eternal death through sin. In fact, the letter to the Romans is very clear that through faith in Him, we have the gift of life. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. The gift overrides the wages. That is the whole point. Death reigns from Adam to this present day. This is due to the disobedience of one man. In Rom.5 we can clearly see that through the work and righteousness of the One Man, Jesus, Christ, we are given the free gift of life and righteousness. It is not through our own work and righteousness. You mock the sacrifice of our Savior by adding your own filthy rags to it for justification. Life is a gift of grace through faith. Any other path to life adds the possibility of boasting. You may have something of which to boast...but not before God, my friend. Not before God.

The key element to this discussion is inherit. Both sides are right, but we need to
rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to understand the writings of Paul. At times,
Paul speaks of justification (salvation), and @ other times he speaks of sanctification.

For instance, we only receive salvation through faith in the blood of the Lamb. Faith
is a gift from God, and it simply means you believe in the Truth of the Son of God. So
by faith we receive the Promises of God in order to grow in grace and in the knowledge
of Jesus Christ.

After our initial salvation (justification), God brings us to sanctification where we learn
obedience to His Law. It is the New Covenant where God writes His Law upon our hearts
and minds to change our works. Notice, He is changing our works, not us.

How does He do it? Through the Promise of the REST (Holy Ghost), which will teach you
all things and bring all things to your remembrance. John the Baptist seen Jesus coming
and he said, this is the one that will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire. The fire
represents God's fiery Law and the Holy Ghost is the rest that brings us understanding of
that Law.

It simply means, as you gain knowledge and understanding of God's Law through faith,
your works begin to change. In essence, it is not your works anymore, but you have
allowed God to change your works through faith, so you can't take credit for what God
has done inside of you. Heb. 4:10-11 says,

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased
from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any
man fall after the same example of unbelief.

That is why Paul tells us to walk in the Spirit... it becomes God's works and not ours. We
become that living sacrifice by allowing God to walk in us, and do the work that is required
for us to inherit the Kingdom of God. We have to become mature Sons in order to inherit
the First Resurrection, which is, the better resurrection (Heb. 11:35), (Rev. 20:6).

The bottom line is... If you don't allow God to change you... you will be saved from the wrath
to come, but you will have to await the 2nd Resurrection, because you didn't learn through
the Holy Ghost how to rest and allow God to change your ways of working and thinking in the
Plan of God. You built upon your foundation wood, hay, and stubble (1st Cor. 3:13-15).

Paul told us in Galatians 5:21,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time
past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the
kingdom of God.

Paul was talking to church people and telling them to change the works of evil in their lives, or
they will lose their inheritance. Paul also spoke to the church @ Corinth, and told them to purify
themselves or they would be unable to inherit the Kingdom of God @ the First Resurrection. In
1st Cor. 6:9-10, Paul was displeased with their handling of things in the Corinth church, so he
reminded them of the consequences they would face if they continued down that path.

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Be not deceived : neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers
of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

In order to understand some of the scriptures, we must realize that sanctification is for
our inheritance and not our salvation. What you do (your works), before or after you
know the Lord does not save you, but your obedience, which is learned through the Spirit
gives you the ability to inherit, but God is the one that get's the credit for your training.
When we understand without God we can do nothing, then God begins to do the work
within.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[williemac]

The key element to this discussion is inherit. Both sides are right, but we need to
rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to understand the writings of Paul. At times,
Paul speaks of justification (salvation), and @ other times he speaks of sanctification.

For instance, we only receive salvation through faith in the blood of the Lamb. Faith
is a gift from God, and it simply means you believe in the Truth of the Son of God. So
by faith we receive the Promises of God in order to grow in grace and in the knowledge
of Jesus Christ.

After our initial salvation (justification), God brings us to sanctification where we learn
obedience to His Law. It is the New Covenant where God writes His Law upon our hearts
and minds to change our works. Notice, He is changing our works, not us.

How does He do it? Through the Promise of the REST (Holy Ghost), which will teach you
all things and bring all things to your remembrance. John the Baptist seen Jesus coming
and he said, this is the one that will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire. The fire
represents God's fiery Law and the Holy Ghost is the rest that brings us understanding of
that Law.

It simply means, as you gain knowledge and understanding of God's Law through faith,
your works begin to change. In essence, it is not your works anymore, but you have
allowed God to change your works through faith, so you can't take credit for what God
has done inside of you. Heb. 4:10-11 says,

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased
from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any
man fall after the same example of unbelief.

That is why Paul tells us to walk in the Spirit... it becomes God's works and not ours. We
become that living sacrifice by allowing God to walk in us, and do the work that is required
for us to inherit the Kingdom of God. We have to become mature Sons in order to inherit
the First Resurrection, which is, the better resurrection (Heb. 11:35), (Rev. 20:6).

The bottom line is... If you don't allow God to change you... you will be saved from the wrath
to come, but you will have to await the 2nd Resurrection, because you didn't learn through
the Holy Ghost how to rest and allow God to change your ways of working and thinking in the
Plan of God. You built upon your foundation wood, hay, and stubble (1st Cor. 3:13-15).

Paul told us in Galatians 5:21,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time
past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the
kingdom of God.

Paul was talking to church people and telling them to change the works of evil in their lives, or
they will lose their inheritance. Paul also spoke to the church @ Corinth, and told them to purify
themselves or they would be unable to inherit the Kingdom of God @ the First Resurrection. In
1st Cor. 6:9-10, Paul was displeased with their handling of things in the Corinth church, so he
reminded them of the consequences they would face if they continued down that path.

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Be not deceived : neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers
of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

In order to understand some of the scriptures, we must realize that sanctification is for
our inheritance and not our salvation. What you do (your works), before or after you
know the Lord does not save you, but your obedience, which is learned through the Spirit
gives you the ability to inherit, but God is the one that get's the credit for your training.
When we understand without God we can do nothing, then God begins to do the work
within.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

I will certainly give this one some thought and meditation. nice reply, thank you.

 

[logabe]

I will certainly give this one some thought and meditation. nice reply, thank you.

Williemac... when you are meditating, remember it is God doing the work. Our works
are as filthy rags (works done without the Spirit), and our works will disqualify us as
inheritors. God get's all the Glory when we understand it is Him working inside of us.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[John Zain]

Our works are as filthy rags (works done without the Spirit), and our works will disqualify us as
inheritors.
God get's all the Glory when we understand it is Him working inside of us.

Are you confusing man doing works to get to heaven
vs.
man co-operating with God's Spirit in his process of being sanctified?

 

[logabe]

Are you confusing man doing works to get to heaven
vs.
man co-operating with God's Spirit in his process of being sanctified?

It's a mindset. A lot of Christians think they have to do something in order for God
to accept them. Some type of work or good deed, and forget that all they have to do
is use faith in the Son of God and He does the works through that faith He has given
us as a gift. Gal. 2:20 says,

20 "I have been crucified with Christ ; and it is no
longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son
of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

My point is, if we truly believe the account that God gave of His Son, then by that
faith, your works will change because you are convinced that God can do what He
said He could do. What is that? By promising He will bless us through Abraham, by
turning everyone of us from our evil ways (works). Acts 3:25-26 says,

25 "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of
the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying
to Abraham, 'AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF
THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.'
26 "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him
to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked
ways."

That is true sanctification... walking by faith and knowing that Jesus is working inside
to change our wicked ways so we can experience a better resurrection (Heb. 11:35).
Notice that scripture was said in the 11th chapter of Heb., which is the faith chapter.
All of the wonderful works that were done in that chapter was done BY FAITH IN GOD.

In other words, God was given all the GLORY for the works that were done by faith. By
faith... Noah built an ark, by faith... Enoch was translated, by faith... Abraham offered up
Isaac, by faith... Moses forsook Egypt, not fearing the king, by faith... Rahab believed in
the report she had heard about this God of the Israelites.

Bottom line... we can do absolutely nothing in ourselves to please Him, we have to become
one with Him by faith and He begins to take over our reins. Our works become His Works,
and we can't take credit for it. Hebrews 11:6 says,

6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he
who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is
a rewarder of those who seek Him.

When Jesus comes back a second time, He is coming with rewards for the ones that learn how
to submit to His Spirit by faith (sanctification). He is coming to give us a CROWN so we can be
a king and a priest in the Kingdom of God (Rev. 20:6). Sanctification qualifies us for this kingship
and prepares us for the Age of Tabernacles that God prepared for them that Love Him (1st Cor. 2:9).
Who loves Him? Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments (Rev. 22:14) and I will bring
you the reward of Sonship, which makes us inheritors (Romans 8:19-23).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe