The "watch rapture view"

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rebuilder 454

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i just love ya my Brother

the scriptural evidence of only one Second Coming begins in Genesis

Genesis is the Foundation of all Truth that will follow

Did you read the Prophecy that is built into the life of Joseph???
Rev 14. (Gatherings way beyond the crafty postrib workbook.)
The Holy Spirit says do not change my book.
Hopefully you guys will eventually cast down that 1 coming, made up nonsense.

Hope you realize your doctrine hangs on several threads.
1) desperately recrafting the 3 comings.
2) desperately recrafting acts 1
3) desperately recrafting the 2 escape verses
4) omitting " before the flood setting" OF JESUS in mat 24
5) forbidding the 50% removal doctrine of Jesus that is confirmed TWICE.
6) NEVER ...ever include the Lot removal component, or the setting of it.

Ever seen a postribber include any of our verses in their presentation?
What is their foundation of EVERY TEACHING BY THEM on YouTube?
IT IS the ANTI PRETRIB TEACHING.
That is your foundation.
It is similar to "never trumpers"
They don't know why they hate him....they were PROGRAMMED to hate.

Same strangeness with postrib rapture doctrine

Half the church believes the pretrib bible doctrine is bad.
They don't know why.
They just " know " Jesus words are bad and the bible hounds are to be hated and despised as well.

Last days deception
 

The Light

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i just love ya my Brother

the scriptural evidence of only one Second Coming begins in Genesis

Genesis is the Foundation of all Truth that will follow

Did you read the Prophecy that is built into the life of Joseph???
I don't see the scriptural evidence of only one coming in the book of Gensis. Could you point it out?

Also, I am unaware that the life of Joseph has anything to do with there being only one coming of the Lord.

What I do know is that Revelation 14 proves that Jesus comes more than one more time. In fact, Revelation 14 proves that Jesus comes once for the 144,000 first fruits and again at the end of Revelation 14 for the harvest which occurs at the 6th seal. That doesn't even count the pretribulation rapture when He comes in an hour that we think not.

So all this Jesus only comes one more time belief is totally unscriptural.
 

The Light

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Ever seen a postribber include any of our verses in their presentation?
What is their foundation of EVERY TEACHING BY THEM on YouTube?
IT IS the ANTI PRETRIB TEACHING.
That is your foundation.
It is similar to "never trumpers"
They don't know why they hate him....they were PROGRAMMED to hate.

Same strangeness with postrib rapture doctrine

Half the church believes the pretrib bible doctrine is bad.
They don't know why.
They just " know " Jesus words are bad and the bible hounds are to be hated and despised as well.

Last days deception
Ain't it the truth.

I have come to the conclusion that many post tribbers are Demo's. No logic or scriptural facts, just propaganda that they have swallowed and regurgitated to others.
 

David in NJ

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Rev 14. (Gatherings way beyond the crafty postrib workbook.)
The Holy Spirit says do not change my book.
Hopefully you guys will eventually cast down that 1 coming, made up nonsense.

Hope you realize your doctrine hangs on several threads.
1) desperately recrafting the 3 comings.
2) desperately recrafting acts 1
3) desperately recrafting the 2 escape verses
4) omitting " before the flood setting" OF JESUS in mat 24
5) forbidding the 50% removal doctrine of Jesus that is confirmed TWICE.
6) NEVER ...ever include the Lot removal component, or the setting of it.

Ever seen a postribber include any of our verses in their presentation?
What is their foundation of EVERY TEACHING BY THEM on YouTube?
IT IS the ANTI PRETRIB TEACHING.
That is your foundation.
It is similar to "never trumpers"
They don't know why they hate him....they were PROGRAMMED to hate.

Same strangeness with postrib rapture doctrine

Half the church believes the pretrib bible doctrine is bad.
They don't know why.
They just " know " Jesus words are bad and the bible hounds are to be hated and despised as well.

Last days deception
@The Light

Genesis is the Foundation of ALL Truth that would follow thru the prophets, onto the Gospel and Final Destination/Revelation

If you do not know Genesis, you cannot perceive/know the Truth on His 2nd Coming

You both must read carefully and prayerfully Genesis
 

rebuilder 454

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Ain't it the truth.

I have come to the conclusion that many post tribbers are Demo's. No logic or scriptural facts, just propaganda that they have swallowed and regurgitated to others.
Their main banner is: "we get our doctrine from men. We get it from dead church fathers that never saw Israel re established and some even thought they were in the GT"
" that is our foundation" they proclaim!!!
They tell us they got their doctrine from men that were of limited revelation.

Apparently postribbers think going with the crowd is safe ground.
Massive last days deception.

Massive.
 

rebuilder 454

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Y
@The Light

Genesis is the Foundation of ALL Truth that would follow thru the prophets, onto the Gospel and Final Destination/Revelation

If you do not know Genesis, you cannot perceive/know the Truth on His 2nd Coming

You both must read carefully and prayerfully Genesis
You got Noah and the flood wrong in Genesis.
So maybe you are looking at it wrong
 

Douggg

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Well all that is possible. We are not given much detail about the image of the beast in Revelation 13 except that the false prophet will be given power to give a spirit [pneuma] to the image of the beast, and the image will be able to speak.

But it's also possible that the image of the beast is a human being (the image of God is a human being):
Hi Zao is life,

The only human being that will be worshiped is the beast-king (the Antichrist person).

In Revelation 13:4, they will also worhip the dragon, Satan.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

How that will happen is that Satan will indwell the statue image of the beast-king. The false prophet will require that everyone worship that statue image. People who do worship it, will unwittingly be worshiping Satan.

Satan must be present there on the temple mount when Jesus returns for the angel in Revelation 20:1-3 to bind Satan and chains and cast him into the bottomless pit.

Revelation 19, small size.jpg
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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930 LITERAL years is Eternally RELEVANT

therefore God's LOL is x1,000
Premils like you continue to prove that Premil is not based on clear, straightforward scripture, but rather on assumptions and speculation like what you're doing here. No, Adam's life span has nothing to do with Revelation 20. You have so little support for your doctrine, that you have to resort to ridiculous things like that to try to support it.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You don't believe that the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 spoke of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 12:11-12 is still unfulfilled ?
It's as if you didn't even read my post. I said that I believe Jesus was referring to Daniel 9:26-27 because what He was talking about related to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple just like is described in Daniel 9:26-27. What is hard to understand about what I'm saying, Douggg? Do you not think Jesus had Daniel 9:26-27 in mind, considering that He was asked about when the temple buildings would be destroyed and we know Daniel 9:26-27 refers to the destruction of the city and the sanctuary?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You've made it clear that you believe @TribulationSigns has no clue what he's talking about when he talks about the rooftops Jesus was mentioning, and that the verses I posted do not relate to one another.

And you've made it clear that you believe that when Jesus gave examples of the type of human suffering that would accompany the coming great tribulation that He was talking about (in order to illustrate how bad the coming great tribulation will be), His subject was equally the illustrations He gave by way of example, as it was the coming great tribulation, and His illustrations and metaphor regarding rooftops etc should therefore be taken up literally.

And you've made it clear that you believe that your Markan Sandwich is more edible than mine though you base your Markan Sandwich on changing the meaning of the word in Luke 21:12 from "before" to "after"; and

then assert that the word "therefore" in Matthew 24:15 can be popped into a text that's using other conjunctive words like "and"; "then (tote: "at that time") repeatedly, yet the word "therefore" is referring to something else - anything else - except the immediate preceding text.

And you've made it clear that you do not believe that someone seating Himself up in the New Testament sanctuary of God and exalting himself above all that is worshiped and called God, showing himself to be God, can possibly be considered an abomination of desolation in a holy place, because according to you that term referred exclusively to a place that was no more holy in the eyes of God than a Hindu shrine, or to Roman armies, or to a city that was not holy.

So why are you asking me silly questions which are only inviting me to repeat what in your imagination you think you have refuted?
You've made it clear in this post that you have no interest in actually addressing anything I said in my post specifically. Which shows that you have no real interest in addressing any challenges to your view. Which shows that it's a complete waste of time talking to you.

If you want to think that Jesus said what is recorded in Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20 separately from what is recorded in Luke 21:20-24, then so be it. But, if He said those things separately, you have no explanation for why what is written in Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20 is nowhere to be found in Luke 21. And you have no explanation for why what is written in Luke 21:20-24 is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24 or Mark 13. I have a very simple explanation for that. Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24 are parallel passages. The similarities in the passages are very obvious. The reason that Luke didn't reference Daniel's prophecy is also obvious. It's because He was not writing to a Jewish audience like Matthew and Mark. His Gentile audience was not familiar with Daniel's prophecy, so it would have made no sense for him to say "let the reader understand" the reference to Daniel's prophecy. Instead, he spelled out what it was about. It was about Jerusalem being destroyed after first being surrounded by armies. Just like what happened in 70 AD.
 

Douggg

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It's as if you didn't even read my post. I said that I believe Jesus was referring to Daniel 9:26-27 because what He was talking about related to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple just like is described in Daniel 9:26-27. What is hard to understand about what I'm saying, Douggg? Do you not think Jesus had Daniel 9:26-27 in mind, considering that He was asked about when the temple buildings would be destroyed and we know Daniel 9:26-27 refers to the destruction of the city and the sanctuary?
You did not answer my question. Here it is again... You don't believe that the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 spoke of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 12:11-12 is still unfulfilled ?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I read the rest when I finished laughing. No need to comment because any further comment is old news.
I have not stopped laughing since the first time you tried to claim that nothing in the Olivet Discourse is about the destruction of the temple buildings. LOL! That will never not be funny. You think Jesus was asked when the temple buildings would be destroyed, but you say He decided to just not answer that question without even telling them that He was not going to answer it. As if that is a convincing argument at all? Excuse me, I can't type anymore because I'm laughing too hard.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You did not answer my question. Here it is again... You don't believe that the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 spoke of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 12:11-12 is still unfulfilled ?
I did answer it. You have horrible reading comprehension skills just like a majority of people on this forum. I do not believe Jesus was referring to Daniel 12:11-12. I believe He was referring to Daniel 9:26-27 because He was talking about something related to the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary. What is hard to understand about this?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Says the natural man — 1 Corinthians 2:14.
So, you're saying you think I'm not saved? Or are you not able to discern that the natural man is not saved?

If you are saying that I'm not saved, then you have a much bigger problem than misinterpreting the Olivet Discourse. You will be judged with the same measure that you are judging me if you are saying that I'm not saved. You better repent of that or you're going to be in for a rude awakening on judgment day.

To have spiritual discernment means you can discern between literal and figurative text. It doens't mean to spiritualize as much scripture as you possibly can the way you do.

Of course it sounds like 'gibberish' to you; the things of the Spirit are foolishness to those who are spiritually blind. You're not laughing at me — you're laughing at truths you simply can’t comprehend.
You are the one lacking spiritual discernment. You can't even discern that Satan is a real, living spirit being. A fallen angel who is the leader of all of the fallen angels (Matthew 25:41, Rev 12:9). And you're trying to tell me I'm spiritually blind? You have a very active imagination that you attribute to the Holy Spirit revealing things to you. You can't get much more spiritually blind than when you attribute things you conjure up in you imagination to things that the Spirit is supposedly revealing to you.

You're mocking God's judgment on His rebellious house as foretold in the Olivet Discourse, yet you cling to your lifeless 70 AD theories — proudly nursing on theological scraps that reduce divine prophecy to nothing more than historical trivia.
I mock your false interpretations. Get is straight. You can't even discern that Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple buildings and it happened just as He said it did. We should be celebrating His prophetic accuracy and foreknowledge, but instead you deny that He said anything about it. It's ridiculous. You can't even discern that the reason it happened was because of the rebellion of most Jews against Christ and His gospel. So, what happened was God's punishment against them. It shows that God does not mess around when it comes to sin and rebellion. It will be punished if people don't repent.

And no — I don't split Christ’s Olivet Discourse like you do.
That's because of your lack of spiritual discernment.

God doesn’t need your dispensational scissors.
LOL! I am very far from being a dispensationalist. You are just making a complete fool of yourself with every comment you make.

He didn't give one prophecy for Israel and another for the Church. It’s one discourse, one warning, one return of Christ — and only those with spiritual eyes can see the whole picture.
Only those with active imaginations can see it the way you do.

You accuse others of being unable to discern literal from figurative,
Yes, Iand I will continue to do so. You are one of them. Clearly. You make things unnecessarily complicated because of trying to spiritualize almost every scripture you come across. It's ludicrous.

but that’s rich coming from someone who can't even recognize when Christ speaks in layered, prophetic language. You're not rightly dividing the Word — you're dismantling it to suit your system.
Rightly dividing the word doesn't involve trying to spirituale as much of it as you possibly can.

That’s not exegesis; that’s self-deception. You are not a true amillennialist. You are a warped partial preterism amillennialist
LOL! All you have to offer are lies. I agree with them on one passage of the Olivet Discourse and almost nothing in the book of Revelatoin, but that makes me one of them? LOL! Keep the laughs coming, buddy.

Discernment doesn’t come from seminary notes or snarky sarcasm.
Seminary notes? LOL! You don't know me at all. I never went to Seminary. I study scripture for myself. You have all these false assumptions about why I bleieve what I do. You discern that about as well as you discern scripture.

It comes from the Spirit of truth — and clearly, that’s what you’re lacking.
You will be judged with the same measure you are judging me. That will not be pleasant for you. Jesus is the Judge (John 5:22), not you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Are you not understanding the use of identical expressions by Jesus and Paul, and Paul's direct confirmations of their fulfillments?

Paul was unquestionably aware of what Jesus' had prophesied, and the vernacular that He had employed. Paul was unequivocal in echoing it and confirming its fulfillment.

There's no mention of the Roman empire by either of them. Thomas took the Gospel to India, which was not part of the Roman empire. He was martyred there. The Ethiopian eunuch took the Gospel back to Africa, not all of which was part of the Roman empire. The Gospel was taken to England (which was, yes, part of the Roman empire).

Do you have trouble believing that the Gospel in all of its power and efficacy could have penetrated all nations of the world in that day, before Paul's confirmations?

I don't.

Bro, you are one of us who is more than fully aware of the power and efficacy of the Gospel.

Thanks to the faith and sacrifice of the early Christians, it "turned the world upside down". Acts 17:6

The whole world.

In that day.
I gave my reasons for why I see it the way I do and you addressed none of them. If you can explain convincingly why Jesus would have talked about global things in relation to the coming fulfillment of a local event, then feel free. But, I can't make any sense of that.
 
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Douggg

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I did answer it. You have horrible reading comprehension skills just like a majority of people on this forum. I do not believe Jesus was referring to Daniel 12:11-12. I believe He was referring to Daniel 9:26-27 because He was talking about something related to the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary. What is hard to understand about this?

Then in your view is the abomination of desolation set up in Daniel 12:11-12 spoken of by Daniel the prophet unfilled or not ?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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@Davidpt I asked ChatGPT this question - and the answer is straight out of @Spiritual Israelite 's book of eschatological confusion. In other words, it disagrees with both you and me:

Is Jesus' mention of an abomination of desolation in the holy place in Matthew 24:15 more likely to be associated with the abomination of desolation placed in the holy place by Antiochus IV Epiphanes which did not result in the destruction of the temple or city, or with the abominations mentioned in Daniel 9:27?

Excellent and thoughtful question — let’s break it down carefully, as you’re probing a key point in interpreting Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15.

Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15
"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Important features of what Jesus says:

He refers to a future visible event (“when you see…”).

He cites Daniel as the source — not a generic tradition.

He links it to a crisis that requires fleeing Judea.

✡ Which Daniel passage is Jesus referencing?
1️⃣ Daniel 11:31 – Antiochus IV Epiphanes
This speaks of Antiochus profaning the temple with an abomination (altar to Zeus, pagan sacrifice).

It didn’t destroy the temple or the city.

Jewish forces (the Maccabees) eventually restored the temple.


While Antiochus’ actions are the first and clearest historical fulfillment of “abomination of desolation” language, Jesus speaks of something future from his point of view (Antiochus’ desecration was ~200 years earlier).

2️⃣ Daniel 9:27
"And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

This speaks of abominations connected to desolation — with the city and sanctuary ultimately destroyed (9:26).

The context (9:26–27) points to destruction rather than just temporary defilement.

This passage seems to match a final crisis tied to desolation of city + sanctuary.

Jesus’ reference aligns more naturally with Daniel 9:27, because:

He warns of a catastrophic event requiring flight (fulfilled in part in A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem).

The abomination triggers not just defilement but widespread desolation (as in Daniel 9:27).

⚡ Summary of association
➡ Jesus’ abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 is more likely associated with the abominations of Daniel 9:27 rather than with Antiochus IV’s act (Daniel 11:31).


Here’s why:

Jesus places the abomination in the future relative to his audience.

The event leads to destruction and desolation, matching Daniel 9:27 better than Daniel 11:31.

Daniel 11:31 refers to Antiochus’ historical act, which was already past at Jesus’ time.

However, it’s important to note that many scholars (especially those who see patterns of prophetic fulfillment) believe Jesus may have drawn on the type or pattern of Antiochus' desecration (Daniel 11:31) to describe a future, greater abomination that would lead to destruction — as prophesied in Daniel 9:27.

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Notice how the part I changed to red above associates the destruction of the temple and Daniel 9:27 with Matthew 24:15, and hence associates Daniel 9:27 and AD70 with the AoD in the holy place.

That's the mistake they all make - but Matthew 24:15 has nothing to do with AD70 and Daniel 9:27 because Matthew 24:15 is talking only about the future AoD of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, which scripture associates only with A4E and the AoD he placed in the holy place of the 2nd temple.
What a joke this is. You guys are so desperate to come up with something to support your view that you have to resort to using very untrustworthy AI. Jesus was clearly referring to a future abomination of desolation, so to try to claim He was referring back to a past abomination of desolation is utterly ridiculous. He said "when you shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place" in the future, as prophesied in Daniel, not "when you shall look back on the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place" in the past, as prophesied in Daniel. You are acting as if you think there is no actual prophecy in Daniel about the future (as of the time He was speaking) abomination of desolation that you think Jesus was referring to, but there is and it's in Daniel 9:26-27.