The "watch rapture view"

[The Light]

Did you change your mind about the everlasting covenant?

Not at all. I believe I was clear that God makes everlasting covenants. You are the one claiming that Jesus makes a 7 year covenant. Not scriptural.

 

[The Light]

Because you jettison the 7 yr trib, you base EVERYTHING A off of a false strict definition of trib vs great trib vs wrath.
Your ENTRE ESCHATOLOGY is based off of a false platform.

How come you are unable to produce one single scripture that says that there is a 7 year tribulation? There is a 7 year covenant but there is not a 7 year tribulation.

That is why you attempt to make the AC as a "confirmer" OUTSIDE OF THE FACT THAT HE IS ALSO THE "BRINGER" of the covenant/treaty.

Total baloney. You falsely claim that the AC MAKES a 7 year covenant. That is totally false. The Word says that He confirms a 7 year covenant. He can confirm that covenant several years after it is made.

You cast down any logical acknowledging of the BOW in his hand.....(the COVENANT /TREATY.)

A bow
A white horse
A crown
Warring ....KILLING PEOPLE ( conquering and to conquer )

You reject the bow, (covenant) and the killing.
Your model has him appearing in the temple from his arrival.
Not scriptural.

Again, total baloney. Please produce any evidence that I don't think that the rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

You claim that the bow is the covenant because of the rainbow covenant God makes with Noah. Totally illogical.
The bow is the bow of the false savior, Apollo, who is Horus, who is Tammuz.

The false religion of Babylon is all over the world based on the sun, moon and stars. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus above the pyramid. The world is waiting on their false savior. Do you realize all the eastern religions are based on the sun, moon and stars? Japan........Shintoism.......the land of the rising sun. Ring any bells?

The world awaits their false savior who carries a bow.

How do you think the innumerable number in heaven died?

They died many different ways as the great multitude is all those believers from the Church age and all the believing Jews that died in the great tribulation or are raptured alive as the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. If the great tribulation is not cut short there would be no flesh raptured alive unto salvation. All that are raptured at the 6th seal would have to come from the grave, but for the elects sake, it is cut short.

The AC !!!!!
The AC arrives AS THE ANTICHRIST.
You have him arriving and killing nobody.
Instead, your model has him arriving as the "anti Jew" entering the temple and desecration it.

You are misrepresenting what I believe.

Please produce one claim I have made that the first Antichrist does not arrive conquering and to conquer. I am not claiming that the 1st four seals are not opened before the middle of the week, I am claiming that they do not have to be opened when the week begins and that the Church does not have to be raptured before the week begins. If you can produce any scripture that proves this wrong, I am interested in seeing it.

That jettisons the entire first half of the 7 yr trib.

How so. I am unaware of any Biblical 7 year tribulation.

FYI. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. That means that the 1st four seals will occur before the AOD is set up.

There is nothing in scripture that says that the Church is raptured before the final week begins, so why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Church is raptured before the final week begins. It has to do with they think that there is still one week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood. The first day of the 7 he loads all the animals and we do not know what day of the 7 he is shut it. That alone is enough proof that the Church will not be in heaven before the final week begins.

There is not one full week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. From the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem to Messiah the prince is 69 weeks (62+7). Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks. He is not cut off the day He arrives; He is cut off 3.5 year after He arrives as Messiah. That leaves 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel.

Three and half years is a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Once the Church is raptured, the world will be in chaos. Things will happen very fast as the world government will be set up immediately. In the name of peace, the AC will go forth conquering and to conquer as the first seal is opened, followed by seal 2,3 and 4.

Or maybe you do not believe the white horse rider is the AC.

The rider on the white horse is the first Antichrist who is the 7th king. He will eventually cause the world to worship the little horn who is Nimrod, who will be the 8th king and is the beast of the sea. He is the eighth and is of the seven. He was and is not and will come again.

See the jumps you are making.????

Nope. Point out one thing I am saying that does agree with scripture and I will change what I believe. None of this dreaming things up. I want facts and scriptural support.

Also , in over 40 years of study, I have never met ANY BROTHER with your exclusive view.

Exactly. And yet you are unable to produce any scriptural evidence that I am wrong.

Am I wrong that there is only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel? Nope.
Am I wrong that Jesus comes at the 6th seal in power and great glory for the second harvest based on the scriptural support that the 6th seal is opened and then the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven prior to the wrath of God? Nope.
Am I wrong that after this harvest which occurs at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7? Nope
Am I wrong that there is no proof that the Church is raptured BEFORE the 7 year covenant is MADE. Nope.
Am I wrong that Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood? Nope.

I really don't care whether there is anyone that agrees with my point of view. What I would care about is if anyone can use scripture to prove what I am saying is incorrect. If they can I'll change what I believe.

Post a utube or link of a similar view that you are embracing.

Seems like I asked you in the past for that info and you had a dodge.

Yes, you did ask that, and I asked you to post a link to a website where you learned that there are two raptures.

 

[covenantee]

Not at all. I believe I was clear that God makes everlasting covenants. You are the one claiming that Jesus makes a 7 year covenant. Not scriptural.

You are the one who doesn't understand that Messiah confirmed His already existent Everlasting Covenant for seven years with the many in Israel who believed on Him.

The word "make" does not appear in the definition. The already existent Everlasting Covenant in Daniel 9:27 was not made. It was confirmed.

Daniel 9:27 Hebrew

1396 [e]
wə·hiḡ·bîr
וְהִגְבִּ֥יר
And he shall confirm
Conj‑w | V‑Hifil‑ConjPerf‑3ms

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger,

A primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently -- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more (strength), strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not at all. I believe I was clear that God makes everlasting covenants. You are the one claiming that Jesus makes a 7 year covenant. Not scriptural.

Do you think lying helps your case? Do you have no conscience? What do you hope to accomplish with your lies? You know darn well that he did not claim that Jesus makes a 7 year covenant, but rather that it took 7 years to confirm the everlasting new covenant that was established by the blood of Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God makes everlasting covenants

Daniel 9:27 refers to an everlasting covenant that took 7 years to confirm, not to a 7 year covenant. You make a verse that's about Jesus Christ confirming the everlasting new covenant while making the old covenant sacrifices and offerings obsolete into a verse about an imaginary Antichrist confirming some imaginary 7 year covenant instead. It's the worst interpretation of a verse imaginable. Sad.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Is that YES, you agree that 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 is the saving Gospel that applies to believers today or NO ?

Goodness sakes, man. Just read what he said. He was very clear. Yes, he agrees with that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are the one who doesn't understand that Messiah confirmed His already existent Everlasting Covenant for seven years with the many in Israel who believed on Him.

The word "make" does not appear in the definition. The already existent Everlasting Covenant in Daniel 9:27 was not made. It was confirmed.

Daniel 9:27 Hebrew

1396 [e]
wə·hiḡ·bîr
וְהִגְבִּ֥יר
And he shall confirm
Conj‑w | V‑Hifil‑ConjPerf‑3ms

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger,

A primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently -- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more (strength), strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.

In the middle of the week the ac commits the AOD.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 7 YEARS.
The white horse rider begins the 7 yr trib.

No other model fits.
The AC does not appear after the first 3.5 years of the trib on a white horse..

 

[rebuilder 454]

How come you are unable to produce one single scripture that says that there is a 7 year tribulation? There is a 7 year covenant but there is not a 7 year tribulation.

Total baloney. You falsely claim that the AC MAKES a 7 year covenant. That is totally false. The Word says that He confirms a 7 year covenant. He can confirm that covenant several years after it is made.


Again, total baloney. Please produce any evidence that I don't think that the rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

You claim that the bow is the covenant because of the rainbow covenant God makes with Noah. Totally illogical.
The bow is the bow of the false savior, Apollo, who is Horus, who is Tammuz.

The false religion of Babylon is all over the world based on the sun, moon and stars. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus above the pyramid. The world is waiting on their false savior. Do you realize all the eastern religions are based on the sun, moon and stars? Japan........Shintoism.......the land of the rising sun. Ring any bells?

The world awaits their false savior who carries a bow.


They died many different ways as the great multitude is all those believers from the Church age and all the believing Jews that died in the great tribulation or are raptured alive as the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. If the great tribulation is not cut short there would be no flesh raptured alive unto salvation. All that are raptured at the 6th seal would have to come from the grave, but for the elects sake, it is cut short.

You are misrepresenting what I believe.

Please produce one claim I have made that the first Antichrist does not arrive conquering and to conquer. I am not claiming that the 1st four seals are not opened before the middle of the week, I am claiming that they do not have to be opened when the week begins and that the Church does not have to be raptured before the week begins. If you can produce any scripture that proves this wrong, I am interested in seeing it.




How so. I am unaware of any Biblical 7 year tribulation.

FYI. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. That means that the 1st four seals will occur before the AOD is set up.

There is nothing in scripture that says that the Church is raptured before the final week begins, so why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Church is raptured before the final week begins. It has to do with they think that there is still one week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood. The first day of the 7 he loads all the animals and we do not know what day of the 7 he is shut it. That alone is enough proof that the Church will not be in heaven before the final week begins.

There is not one full week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. From the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem to Messiah the prince is 69 weeks (62+7). Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks. He is not cut off the day He arrives; He is cut off 3.5 year after He arrives as Messiah. That leaves 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel.

Three and half years is a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Once the Church is raptured, the world will be in chaos. Things will happen very fast as the world government will be set up immediately. In the name of peace, the AC will go forth conquering and to conquer as the first seal is opened, followed by seal 2,3 and 4.

The rider on the white horse is the first Antichrist who is the 7th king. He will eventually cause the world to worship the little horn who is Nimrod, who will be the 8th king and is the beast of the sea. He is the eighth and is of the seven. He was and is not and will come again.


Nope. Point out one thing I am saying that does agree with scripture and I will change what I believe. None of this dreaming things up. I want facts and scriptural support.

Exactly. And yet you are unable to produce any scriptural evidence that I am wrong.

Am I wrong that there is only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel? Nope.
Am I wrong that Jesus comes at the 6th seal in power and great glory for the second harvest based on the scriptural support that the 6th seal is opened and then the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven prior to the wrath of God? Nope.
Am I wrong that after this harvest which occurs at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7? Nope
Am I wrong that there is no proof that the Church is raptured BEFORE the 7 year covenant is MADE. Nope.
Am I wrong that Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood? Nope.

I really don't care whether there is anyone that agrees with my point of view. What I would care about is if anyone can use scripture to prove what I am saying is incorrect. If they can I'll change what I believe.

Yes, you did ask that, and I asked you to post a link to a website where you learned that there are two raptures.

QUOTE
", you did ask that, and I asked you to post a link to a website where you learned that there are two raptures."

That has nothing to do with confirmation of your model.
So, you are basically telling me you are alone in your eschatology.

God confirms his word in 2 or 3 witnesses , and the bible says, no Scripture is of private interpretation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In the middle of the week the ac commits the AOD.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 7 YEARS.
The white horse rider begins the 7 yr trib.

No other model fits.
The AC does not appear after the first 3.5 years of the trib on a white horse..

 

[rebuilder 454]

How come you are unable to produce one single scripture that says that there is a 7 year tribulation? There is a 7 year covenant but there is not a 7 year tribulation.

Total baloney. You falsely claim that the AC MAKES a 7 year covenant. That is totally false. The Word says that He confirms a 7 year covenant. He can confirm that covenant several years after it is made.


Again, total baloney. Please produce any evidence that I don't think that the rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

You claim that the bow is the covenant because of the rainbow covenant God makes with Noah. Totally illogical.
The bow is the bow of the false savior, Apollo, who is Horus, who is Tammuz.

The false religion of Babylon is all over the world based on the sun, moon and stars. Look on the back of the dollar bill and you will see the eye of Horus above the pyramid. The world is waiting on their false savior. Do you realize all the eastern religions are based on the sun, moon and stars? Japan........Shintoism.......the land of the rising sun. Ring any bells?

The world awaits their false savior who carries a bow.


They died many different ways as the great multitude is all those believers from the Church age and all the believing Jews that died in the great tribulation or are raptured alive as the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. If the great tribulation is not cut short there would be no flesh raptured alive unto salvation. All that are raptured at the 6th seal would have to come from the grave, but for the elects sake, it is cut short.

You are misrepresenting what I believe.

Please produce one claim I have made that the first Antichrist does not arrive conquering and to conquer. I am not claiming that the 1st four seals are not opened before the middle of the week, I am claiming that they do not have to be opened when the week begins and that the Church does not have to be raptured before the week begins. If you can produce any scripture that proves this wrong, I am interested in seeing it.




How so. I am unaware of any Biblical 7 year tribulation.

FYI. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel will begin when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week. That means that the 1st four seals will occur before the AOD is set up.

There is nothing in scripture that says that the Church is raptured before the final week begins, so why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Church is raptured before the final week begins. It has to do with they think that there is still one week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood. The first day of the 7 he loads all the animals and we do not know what day of the 7 he is shut it. That alone is enough proof that the Church will not be in heaven before the final week begins.

There is not one full week remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. From the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem to Messiah the prince is 69 weeks (62+7). Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks. He is not cut off the day He arrives; He is cut off 3.5 year after He arrives as Messiah. That leaves 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel.

Three and half years is a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Once the Church is raptured, the world will be in chaos. Things will happen very fast as the world government will be set up immediately. In the name of peace, the AC will go forth conquering and to conquer as the first seal is opened, followed by seal 2,3 and 4.

The rider on the white horse is the first Antichrist who is the 7th king. He will eventually cause the world to worship the little horn who is Nimrod, who will be the 8th king and is the beast of the sea. He is the eighth and is of the seven. He was and is not and will come again.


Nope. Point out one thing I am saying that does agree with scripture and I will change what I believe. None of this dreaming things up. I want facts and scriptural support.

Exactly. And yet you are unable to produce any scriptural evidence that I am wrong.

Am I wrong that there is only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel? Nope.
Am I wrong that Jesus comes at the 6th seal in power and great glory for the second harvest based on the scriptural support that the 6th seal is opened and then the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven prior to the wrath of God? Nope.
Am I wrong that after this harvest which occurs at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7? Nope
Am I wrong that there is no proof that the Church is raptured BEFORE the 7 year covenant is MADE. Nope.
Am I wrong that Noah is not sealed in the ark 7 days before the flood? Nope.

I really don't care whether there is anyone that agrees with my point of view. What I would care about is if anyone can use scripture to prove what I am saying is incorrect. If they can I'll change what I believe.

Yes, you did ask that, and I asked you to post a link to a website where you learned that there are two raptures.

QUOTE
"Exactly. And yet you are unable to produce any scriptural evidence that I am wrong"

I already did that several times.

"Power and great glory" is Rev 19.
You have it at Rev 14.
Total and complete wrong dynamic.

Rev 6 is an overview of the 7 yr trib, ending in the second coming in power and great glory.

You do not PROVE ANYTHING.
You make certain jumps, and expect others to follow.

And those jumps. HINGE on false definitions of trib vs great trib vs wrath.

 

[covenantee]

In the middle of the week the ac commits the AOD.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 7 YEARS.
The white horse rider begins the 7 yr trib.

No other model fits.
The AC does not appear after the first 3.5 years of the trib on a white horse..

Complete dispen bilge, bunk, and balderdash.

Toss it back into the round file from whence it comes.

And stop trying to contort Christ into antichrist.

You fail.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

QUOTE
"Exactly. And yet you are unable to produce any scriptural evidence that I am wrong"

I already did that several times.

"Power and great glory" is Rev 19.
You have it at Rev 14.
Total and complete wrong dynamic.

How do you determine that the coming of Christ referenced in Revelation 14 is not Him coming in power and great glory? Who do you think is the One who treads the winepress of God's wrath in Revelation 14? The same One who does so in Revelation 19:15, which is obviously Jesus. So, Revelation 14:14-20 is the same event as Revelation 19:11-21. Both describe the second coming of Christ. Your inability to see recapitulations or parallel passages in the book of Revelation is the reason that your interpretation of the book is so messed up.

Rev 6 is an overview of the 7 yr trib, ending in the second coming in power and great glory.

You do not PROVE ANYTHING.
You make certain jumps, and expect others to follow.

And those jumps. HINGE on false definitions of trib vs great trib vs wrath.

Who are you to decide how those terms should be defined? Why should that be only up to you? You define them differently than everyone else does and you expect everyone else to define them the same way you do. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you because of that.

 

[Davy]

Matthew 24:31, Jesus's angels gathering the elect is not the resurrection/rapture event. The resurrection/rapture instead will be direct action by Jesus, not by his angels being sent to do it.

Matthew 24:31 corresponds to Ezekiel 39:28, and Deuteronomy 30:1-6, The elect are the Jews who will be gathered to the land of Israel from the nations around the world when Jesus returns.

Wrong. You are making excuses to not heed... what Lord Jesus said there, plainly. And the way one can easily... tell you are making excuses, looking for some other reason than what Jesus said there, is how there's more than one event Jesus gave in that to PROVE He was pointing to the END of this world and His 2nd coming...

Matt 24:25-31
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The subject Lord Jesus was covering was that of HIS 2nd COMING, as shown in the Scripture above.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The sun being darkened, and the moon not giving her light, and stars fall from heaven, are all SIGNS given in God's Word about the timeline of the very END of this world (See Isaiah 13:9-11; Isaiah 24:20-23; Joel 2; Joel 3:15; then this Luke 21 Scripture especially...

Luke 21:25-27
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
KJV


Matt.24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


It is obvious according to The Bible Scripture evidence, that Lord Jesus was indeed... pointing directly to the day of His future 2nd coming and gathering of His faithful Church in that Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture.

 

[The Light]

DAN 9 :27

You never read Rev 6 in line with the bible?

What draws you to this false conclusion?

Kind of like understanding the Bible. If you want to understand the Bible, you need to eliminate false conclusions. This would be things like the Church is raptured before the final week begins. Or there is one week left in the 70th week of Daniel. Or the great tribulation when the dragon is killing believers is the same as the wrath of God when God pours out His wrath on an evil, unbelieving world. I don't care how many Biblical scholars believe that the great tribulation is the wrath of God, they are in obvious error. Until you eliminate false conclusions you will not understand.

Example is, you have eliminated the false conclusion that there is only one rapture. You understand that the Church is raptured first and then later the Jews are raptured. (This does not include the woman Israel who flees to a place of protection during the great tribulation and remains there during the wrath of God.

So post tribbers use certain scriptures to correctly prove that Pre trib is in error. This gives them great confidence that they are correct. But pretribbers use scriptures to prove that there has to be a pretrib rapture.......which is correct. Once we understand there are two raptures, all arguments disappear. Any post tribber that accepts the false conclusion that there will not be a pretrib rapture will not be looking for the Lord when He comes. Hence foolish virgin.

The AC is the FIRST SEAL.
HELLO....HE BEGINS THE TRIB KILLING BELIEVERS and has a covenant. (Bow)

Another incorrect conclusion. The first seal will be opened after the Church is raptured so it is not believers that are killed when the first Antichrist goes forth conquering and to conquer. He goes forth conquering and to conquer to go against anyone that is fighting the newly formed world government. There will be a one world government and anyone that stands against it will stand against the rider on the white horse and his world army. The Christians are already in heaven so he will not be killing Christians. Right after the Church is raptured in the summer, the 144,000 will receive the Holy Spirit, likely on the Feast of New Oil. When the AOD is set up, that's when he goes after the Jews. When he can't get to woman because she has fled to a place of protection, he goes after her seed who now have the testimony of Jesus Christ and keep the commandments of God. These are the Jews scattered around the world.

YOU CANT CHANGE THAT WITH YOUR TRIB VS GREAT TRIB VS WRATH methodology.

I'm going by what the Word says. If you have a scripture that proves that there is a 7 year tribulation, I'd like to see it. I have a scripture that proves that Noah is NOT in the ark 7 days before the flood.

Do you have a scripture that proves that the great tribulation is not over at the 6th seal? I have scriptures that prove that it is.

Do you have a scripture that proves that the great tribulation is the wrath of God. I have scriptures that say it is not.

The great tribulation is over at the sixth seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

It is MORE THAN OBVIOUS, THAT THE STARS MOON AND SUN OF MAT 24 AND REV 6 ARE THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.
MORE THAN OBVIOUS Jesus returns in power and great glory ONLY AT THAT TIME.

Your statement is easily proved incorrect. I am not sure why you go to such lengths to dismiss the truth. That truth is that Jesus comes at the 6th seal in power and glory as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is the end of the great tribulation per Matthew 27:29.

Revelation 19 with Jesus coming with the armies of heaven on white horses does not occur until after the events of the 6th trumpet and 6th vial with is toward the end of the 7th seal.

So your statement is false. Why not try to put things where the Word of God says they go and stop fighting the Biblical truth? Jesus comes at the 6th seal for a harvest, and the evidence is the great multitude that is in heaven in Revelation 7 some of whom come out of great tribulation. We will be in heaven for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God and then will return on white horses.

You ever read acts ch 1?
Jesus returns at the rapture in ZERO power and great glory.

Acts Ch 1 is not referring to the rapture of the Church or the second coming. It is referring to the second advent when Jesus set His feet on the Mount of Olives. This occurs after the rapture of the Church and after the second coming which occurs at the 6th seal.

In case you missed it, the rapture is the GATHERING OF THE BRIDE.
ZERO power and great glory.

The rapture of Church is the gathering of the first bride. Jacob had two brides.

The rapture of the Church will be a secret rapture as we can see in Song of Solomon 2. The Lord Himself comes at the trump of God or voice of God.

The Lord will return for the second bride at the 6th seal. This will not be a secret rapture. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord. This is the second coming. Jesus will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and mostly Jews will be gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. At the end of the one year wrath, Jesus returns for Armageddon with the armies of heaven on white horses. After that Jesus puts His feet on the Mount of Olives, the second advent.

MAYBE STOP REFRAMING THE BIBLE.

Eliminating false conclusions that have been passed down is not reframing the Bible. It is understanding the Bible.

THE only bull I am seeing is coming from you and your false ascertion I do not study on my own.

You have picked up many false conclusions that have been passed down. This is normal. I did the same. And I know you study on your own or you would have produced a website where you learned there are two raptures. Now learn the difference between the great tribulation, which is when the dragon is killing the Christians.....mostly Jews, which is over at the 6th seal, with the wrath of God which is when God is punishing an evil and unbelieving world and is over at the 7th trumpet/7th vial.

.....or maybe because you are the only one on the planet with your end times model, you are inferring only you are informed from heaven????

Or maybe I test at the very top in logic. That logic is used to eliminate false conclusions that most men swallow without thinking through. The Word of God is exact and perfect, but a false conclusion leads to another false conclusion. If you are looking for the Church to be raptured before the covenant with many is made, that is an error. If you are looking for one rapture.....pretrib, that is in error. If you are looking for one rapture, post trib.......that is in error. If you are looking for 7 years of the 70th week of Daniel remaining, you are in error. There is time, times and half a time remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. If you are looking for the great tribulation and the wrath of God in the same timeframe, you are in error. And the list goes on and on.

God reveals his word to his BODY....NOT ONE MANS private interpretation.

My supposed "one man's private interpretation" is just common sense and logic. This is why I can produce scriptures that prove your contentions are in error, and yet you will find it hard to do the same. This is not to say I have not experienced God's hand on my life. I have witnessed the impossible many times and understand that the only way to please God is faith. That is the substance of thing hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. As Christians we should see the impossible which is an exercise of our faith.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24:31, Jesus's angels gathering the elect is not the resurrection/rapture event. The resurrection/rapture instead will be direct action by Jesus, not by his angels being sent to do it.

Matthew 24:31 corresponds to Ezekiel 39:28, and Deuteronomy 30:1-6, The elect are the Jews who will be gathered to the land of Israel from the nations around the world when Jesus returns.

You need to read the New Testament. The elect are those who belong to Christ whether Jew or Gentile.

Tell me, who do you think are the elect in this verse:

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My supposed "one man's private interpretation" is just common sense and logic. This is why I can produce scriptures that prove your contentions are in error, and yet you will find it hard to do the same.

I agree that his contentions are in error, but the truth of these matters is not based on "just common sense and logic". You are contradicting what Paul wrote here...

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Notice that Paul says God's word is not based on "words which man's wisdom teacheth" but rather "which the Holy Ghost teacheth". What you call "just common sense and logic" is man's wisdom. You can't rely on your own fallible wisdom. But, you clearly do. You admit it. You need to instead rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding instead of only on human "common sense and logic".

 

[The Light]

QUOTE
", you did ask that, and I asked you to post a link to a website where you learned that there are two raptures."

That has nothing to do with confirmation of your model.
So, you are basically telling me you are alone in your eschatology.

God confirms his word in 2 or 3 witnesses , and the bible says, no Scripture is of private interpretation.

Please use scripture to disprove what I am saying. I have used scripture to disprove what you are saying.

 

[rvmb]

Goodness sakes, man. Just read what he said. He was very clear. Yes, he agrees with that.

"Goodness sakes, man"
For goodness sakes pal , does he need you to answer his questions ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Goodness sakes, man"
For goodness sakes pal , does he need you to answer his questions ?

No, he doesn't, pal. You should have already seen the answer by what he already said. Try reading more carefully next time.

 

[rvmb]

No, he doesn't, pal. You should have already seen the answer by what he already said. Try reading more carefully next time.

Well then buddy let him talk for himself pal