The way I view church, music, and tithing are all changing

[farouk]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Church: It's not a building but the people. The original church met in house gatherings where more than just the pastor shared. Now I still go to a traditional church but could definitely see us going for a house church in the future.

Why? I think fellowship should go more than surface deep, I think the costs of a large building take funds away from helping those in need and more than just the pastor have spiritual gifts.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did.

The modern traditional church system has a business side with bills to pay. But I find myself questioning this more and more every day.

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry. Many of them are signed to the same record labels that promote highly unGodly secular music labels.

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

Hi @Wynona Tithing seems to have an Old Testament context. Today in local churches if believers want to give a tenth or more than a tenth as a freewill offering, then more power to them; but it's not a Levitical obligation as it was for Israel in the OT.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi @Wynona Tithing seems to have an Old Testament context. Today in local churches if believers want to give a tenth or more than a tenth as a freewill offering, then more power to them; but it's not a Levitical obligation as it was for Israel in the OT.

PRAISE BE TO THE GLORIOUS LORD . ITS TIME TO PRAISE AND THANK THE LORD .

 

[farouk]

Always good to bear in mind the distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32).

 

[Ancient]

This may help

Blessings

 

[dhh712]

Well...yes. I wish I could defend my church. But they are off the mark on that.

Totally off. If the Lord gives the increase as David Boyer was saying, it is to his glory. Nothing wrong with mega-churches who have large buildings and truly worship the Lord in spirit and in truth. But if a church puts the effort into expanding/improving the building in the hopes that it will be what will gather the people, my are they blinded and should really not be in any position of leadership in a church.

It is in these instances where a proper church government is especially helpful so that congregations do not go astray from what the Lord reveals how the church should grow: by preaching the word; not by large buildings, gimmicks or music.

QUOTE="Enoch111, post: 1416245, member: 7853"]
Speaking of capitalism, God is not opposed to free enterprise. Many of the apostles were fishermen, and sold their fish for a profit (which is free enterprise). But God is in fact opposed to greedy capitalism which desires to put all profits into the hands of a very small minority, while refusing to compensate workers generously. That is why all the good jobs and industries were shipped to China and the Far East, while industries collapsed in North America and people lost their jobs. Now the Western nations are totally subservient to China, and almost everything in the stores is made in China.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is nothing wrong with capitalism if it is done in an honest way; true capitalism has been definitively and absolutely proven to be the best economic system. The reason it is decried right now is exactly because it has been overrun by greedy business-owners who do not pay their workers the wages that are deserved.

 

[farouk]

Totally off. If the Lord gives the increase as David Boyer was saying, it is to his glory. Nothing wrong with mega-churches who have large buildings and truly worship the Lord in spirit and in truth. But if a church puts the effort into expanding/improving the building in the hopes that it will be what will gather the people, my are they blinded and should really not be in any position of leadership in a church.

It is in these instances where a proper church government is especially helpful so that congregations do not go astray from what the Lord reveals how the church should grow: by preaching the word; not by large buildings, gimmicks or music.

Speaking of capitalism, God is not opposed to free enterprise. Many of the apostles were fishermen, and sold their fish for a profit (which is free enterprise). But God is in fact opposed to greedy capitalism which desires to put all profits into the hands of a very small minority, while refusing to compensate workers generously. That is why all the good jobs and industries were shipped to China and the Far East, while industries collapsed in North America and people lost their jobs. Now the Western nations are totally subservient to China, and almost everything in the stores is made in China.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with capitalism if it is done in an honest way; true capitalism has been definitively and absolutely proven to be the best economic system. The reason it is decried right now is exactly because it has been overrun by greedy business-owners who do not pay their workers the wages that are deserved.

Hi @dhh712 Good if a local church can keep to the simplicity of Acts 2:42 activities, right?

 

[farouk]

@dhh712 Thanks for the 'like'; yes, the simplicity of the gatherings - as the simplicity in Christ (2 Corinthians 11.3) - is very precious.

 

[dhh712]

[

@dhh712 Thanks for the 'like'; yes, the simplicity of the gatherings - as the simplicity in Christ (2 Corinthians 11.3) - is very precious.

Yes, it is the Lord who gives the increase should he so will a church to grow.

 

[farouk]

[

Yes, it is the Lord who gives the increase should he so will a church to grow.

@dhh712 Yes, indeed, we should wait in dependence upon the Lord for the increase.........

 

[Mantis]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Church: It's not a building but the people. The original church met in house gatherings where more than just the pastor shared. Now I still go to a traditional church but could definitely see us going for a house church in the future.

Why? I think fellowship should go more than surface deep, I think the costs of a large building take funds away from helping those in need and more than just the pastor have spiritual gifts.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did.

The modern traditional church system has a business side with bills to pay. But I find myself questioning this more and more every day.

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry. Many of them are signed to the same record labels that promote highly unGodly secular music labels.

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

I like what you wrote and agree. I would love more intimate house church settings. That would be amazing. I still try to give 10% to whom I feel led to if I can afford it. Most of the time I cannot. But I gave money and a tent to a homeless guy which I have a strong suspicion he could be an angel in disguise. I give money to different preachers or to pay for sonograms for pregnant women thinking about abortions etc. God loves a cheerful giver but I agree. It was part of the law. Am I trying to live under the law? I hope
Not!

 

[farouk]

@dhh712 Often I think about Peter's exhortation to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3.18). Keeping the simplicity of that goal in view is precious.

 

[farouk]

I like what you wrote and agree. I would love more intimate house church settings. That would be amazing. I still try to give 10% to whom I feel led to if I can afford it. Most of the time I cannot. But I gave money and a tent to a homeless guy which I have a strong suspicion he could be an angel in disguise. I give money to different preachers or to pay for sonograms for pregnant women thinking about abortions etc. God loves a cheerful giver but I agree. It was part of the law. Am I trying to live under the law? I hope
Not!

@Mantis Ppl have got the idea that church is about buildings, but really it's about the work of God in people; Acts 2.42 activities depend little upon buildings......

 

[marksman]

If you read Acts 2 v 48 you will notice that the NTC did not sing anything. They fellowshipped; they prayed; had meals together; and taught each other. I did read somewhere they sang a hymn before they left their time together. Nowhere does it say they started a meeting with 30 minutes of singing. So, one begs the question why do we? Is it to make us feel good?

It does say God inhabits the praises of his people and I have been in a meeting once where such a thing happened. I felt God descend into the auditorium and take over. It was an awesome experience.

If we want to be a God-led and inspired church we cannot make up things to satisfy our ego or way of doing things. The Bible is given as our rule book and guide so if we wander from its instructions, we are not going to get the best out of our walk with God.

 

[amigo de christo]

If you read Acts 2 v 48 you will notice that the NTC did not sing anything. They fellowshipped; they prayed; had meals together; and taught each other. I did read somewhere they sang a hymn before they left their time together. Nowhere does it say they started a meeting with 30 minutes of singing. So, one begs the question why do we? Is it to make us feel good?

It does say God inhabits the praises of his people and I have been in a meeting once where such a thing happened. I felt God descend into the auditorium and take over. It was an awesome experience.

If we want to be a God-led and inspired church we cannot make up things to satisfy our ego or way of doing things. The Bible is given as our rule book and guide so if we wander from its instructions, we are not going to get the best out of our walk with God.

Sing praises to the glorious Lord . My problem is not with singing and praising and thanking the LORD ,
ITS WITH THE DOCTRINE GETTING PUMPED unto the masses . DOCTRINE MATTERS and ours better be biblical .

 

[Stan B]

Sing praises to the glorious Lord . My problem is not with singing and praising and thanking the LORD ,
ITS WITH THE DOCTRINE GETTING PUMPED unto the masses . DOCTRINE MATTERS and ours better be biblical .

I am surprised that you have any regard whatsoever for Biblical doctrine, after condemning me for supporting the matter of abortion on a Scriptural basis, whereas you reject Scripture in favour of supporting the dictates of the Satanic anti-abortion cult you follow. Your god is all about taking freedom away from women, and taking over control of their lives; the very same demonic religion that women are fighting against in Iran! Your god and the Iatollah's god are one and the same.

Jesus came to set us free. Your god is a Satanic control-freak whose goal is to take away freedom and chain them to bondage that subscribes to YOUR rules!

I consider it an honour that you consider me incompatible with the god you serve.

Thank You!!

 

[David H.]

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 6:3-5

 

[quietthinker]

I am surprised that you have any regard whatsoever for Biblical doctrine, after condemning me for supporting the matter of abortion on a Scriptural basis, whereas you reject Scripture in favour of supporting the dictates of the Satanic anti-abortion cult you follow. Your god is all about taking freedom away from women, and taking over control of their lives; the very same demonic religion that women are fighting against in Iran! Your god and the Iatollah's god are one and the same.

Jesus came to set us free. Your god is a Satanic control-freak whose goal is to take away freedom and chain them to bondage that subscribes to YOUR rules!

I consider it an honour that you consider me incompatible with the god you serve.

Thank You!!

I see you didn't mince any words Stan, however your judgment is a bit harsh don't you think?

 

[David H.]

I see you didn't mince any words Stan, however your judgment is a bit harsh don't you think?

He has yet to meet the Thrice Holy God.... and come undone. He will change his tune if he ever does.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I just wanted to talk about some things that have been on my mind lately about church, music, and tithing and how they are changing. Ill try to keep it brief.

Church: It's not a building but the people. The original church met in house gatherings where more than just the pastor shared. Now I still go to a traditional church but could definitely see us going for a house church in the future.

Why? I think fellowship should go more than surface deep, I think the costs of a large building take funds away from helping those in need and more than just the pastor have spiritual gifts.

Tithing: Malachi 3:10 is abused today. Tithing ten percent was a law of Moses and Galatians explains that those who are trying to obey the law must do the whole law orbe cursed. I believe now that you are free to offer your church money as you feel led but that you should be primarily giving to the poor and other believers in need like the early church did.

The modern traditional church system has a business side with bills to pay. But I find myself questioning this more and more every day.

Music: I'm starting to believe that many mainstream Christian artists see the faith as a business opportunity and not a ministry. Many of them are signed to the same record labels that promote highly unGodly secular music labels.

Id like to branch out into more hymns and other music where I can easily discern that the music is to the Lord and not for the world.

Awesome! You are beginning to understand what is important to God.
About 2 or 3 years ago I shared on here that God said He is restoring His Church and isn't going to be Church as usual....it's wherever 2 or more are gathered together in His name there He is in the midst of them. It could be a street corner, a front porch, a living room, a family reunion....yes Church is beginning to fall on believers to take it to the people instead of waiting for them to come to you.
As it was when Peter preached....as many as were saved were added to the church. NOT the church building....the Church BODY!
Can you imagine 3000 people getting saved and trying to fit into a church building all together?.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Also, concerning singing hymns....An evangelist shared how he travels and speaks at various churches and he would notice how spiritually dead the worship service would be. He finally realized that all the songs they sang were about God....but when you are there to sing praises and worship of Him you should sing TO Him not about Him...
So I began to change words in songs we same for ex. Jesus, Jesus, how I love Him...How I proved Him o'er and o'er....to Jesus, Jesus, how I love YOU...How I prove you o'er and o'er....

So this changed everything about worship for me....I feel His presence everytime I am in a worship service because it is worshipping Him through song and praise...and it says in scripture He INHABITS our praises.

Glory to you, Abba, Father!