The woman caught in Adultery

[FaithWillDo]

See…the first time reading this about the adulterous woman brought to the Priest and made to drink the bitter water…I said “what a scary ritual God! It sounds like Satanic worship and the rituals of demons” because I only saw the woman as a gender. I thought God promoted women as cattle or a possession or as “weak vessels”, this passage of woman put on her knees and made to drink was offensive to me.

Until I saw Christ in the “if she be free”
And saw …this isn’t a passage about gender favorites …it’s declaring a way…it’s declaring a body as a whole under the definition of “the woman” caught in adultery. And there is love there in “she shall be free from the curse.” Also is “she shall be a curse among her people.” All things spoken to Israel.

…lol that they (the Pharisees and religious) as good as acknowledged Jesus Christ as the High Priest in bringing an adulterous woman “caught in the act” to him. As the adulterous woman is taken to the High priest…they also took her to Jesus Christ. I guess to see what He would do. I found the woman dragged to the High Priest, put on her knees and made to drink bitter water as …abuse of females. Funny how the word calls followers of Christ “sheep” and I have not seen anyone complain or get offended as being referred to as cattle. But I was offended as if Women were nothing more than cattle or a possession…but I had no qualms about being “a sheep”. Nobody wants to be a goat. That all changed (all the offensive woman talk) when I began to really see God is not sexist. It was my perspective changing of the adulterous woman and the drinking of the bitter water that took a passage that was offensive and turned it (changed it)into “beautiful” God’s revealing of and “she shall be free from the curse” and no longer “a curse among the people”. Same as perspective of “a sheep”. If a sheep is nothing more than cattle, then …Lol and here comes the Pharisees bringing Jesus Christ a woman caught in the act of adultery, missing the point that the Word was speaking to Israel as the woman; Either a curse among her people or she shall be free and conceive seed. Reminds me of the passage Matthew 21:38-43 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' [39] And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. [40] When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" [41] They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons." [42] Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? [43] Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
I didn't mention (but you did point it out) that Numbers 5 leads into the birthing analogy. The birthing analogy is a separate analogy but one could also say that it is a continuation of the marriage analogy.

Here is where it is mentioned in Numbers:

Num 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

In short, the birthing analogy is the birth (as children of God) of the rest of mankind. Christ and His Bride (wife) will produce their offspring in the final age. After the last person is saved (birthed), this verse will then be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Bride (Elect) will share in Christ's work which He performs in the final age (Rev 22:17). In other words, the Bride will reign with Him to bring in the full harvest of mankind (the farming analogy). This is the main purpose for why the Elect are saved early and are called First Fruits.

Joe

 

[CadyandZoe]

John 8:3-11 Now the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in the act of adultery, and after placing her in the center of the courtyard, [4] they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of committing adultery. [5] Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [6] Now they were saying this to test Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [7] When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [8] And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [9] Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. [10] And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [11] She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”

My husband brought up a good question this morning. Where is the man caught in adultery with the woman? To me this is significant because of reading on sites of comments with why God’s word is offense. One thing that is brought up on those sites (of why God is sexist) is the man is exempt and it’s always the woman for example the woman raped in the OT who didn’t cry out.

Where is the man caught in adulterous acts with the woman they wished to cast stones at?

I suspect Jesus wrote their names on the ground. When a man saw his name, he walked away. Eventually, they all left.

 

[Mr E]

See…the first time reading this about the adulterous woman brought to the Priest and made to drink the bitter water…I said “what a scary ritual God! It sounds like Satanic worship and the rituals of demons” because I only saw the woman as a gender. I thought God promoted women as cattle or a possession or as “weak vessels”, this passage of woman put on her knees and made to drink was offensive to me.

Until I saw Christ in the “if she be free”
And saw …this isn’t a passage about gender favorites …it’s declaring a way…it’s declaring a body as a whole under the definition of “the woman” caught in adultery. And there is love there in “she shall be free from the curse.” Also is “she shall be a curse among her people.” All things spoken to Israel.

…lol that they (the Pharisees and religious) as good as acknowledged Jesus Christ as the High Priest in bringing an adulterous woman “caught in the act” to him. As the adulterous woman is taken to the High priest…they also took her to Jesus Christ. I guess to see what He would do. I found the woman dragged to the High Priest, put on her knees and made to drink bitter water as …abuse of females. Funny how the word calls followers of Christ “sheep” and I have not seen anyone complain or get offended as being referred to as cattle. But I was offended as if Women were nothing more than cattle or a possession…but I had no qualms about being “a sheep”. Nobody wants to be a goat. That all changed (all the offensive woman talk) when I began to really see God is not sexist. It was my perspective changing of the adulterous woman and the drinking of the bitter water that took a passage that was offensive and turned it (changed it)into “beautiful” God’s revealing of and “she shall be free from the curse” and no longer “a curse among the people”. Same as perspective of “a sheep”. If a sheep is nothing more than cattle, then …Lol and here comes the Pharisees bringing Jesus Christ a woman caught in the act of adultery, missing the point that the Word was speaking to Israel as the woman; Either a curse among her people or she shall be free and conceive seed. Reminds me of the passage Matthew 21:38-43 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' [39] And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. [40] When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" [41] They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons." [42] Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? [43] Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

I love Psalm 139. I mean, it's no Psalm 23, but it's still pretty good. That shepherd boy wrote some good stuff.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I suspect Jesus wrote their names on the ground. When a man saw his name, he walked away. Eventually, they all left.

I get your point too. We can’t really know for sure what He wrote on the ground. I do see a connection to His removing of a heart of stone and giving a new heart of flesh (considering the parable of the seed and the sower, where the ground is the heart seed is sown into)where He writes His laws.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I didn't mention (but you did point it out) that Numbers 5 leads into the birthing analogy. The birthing analogy is a separate analogy but one could also say that it is a continuation of the marriage analogy.

Here is where it is mentioned in Numbers:

Num 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

In short, the birthing analogy is the birth (as children of God) of the rest of mankind. Christ and His Bride (wife) will produce their offspring in the final age. After the last person is saved (birthed), this verse will then be testified to be true:

I see the two women in the bitter water parable
Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, (that bears wrath) do you not listen to the law? [22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. [23] But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. [24] Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. [25] Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. [26] But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. [27] For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband." [28] Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. [29] But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. [30] But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." [31] So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

As I said earlier concerning seeing:
My first seeing or reading of the Adulterous woman who the priest makes to drink the bitter water out from the Law of Jealousies. I saw gender of condemnation against (women). I mean why does a man, whoever committed adultery with the woman from Numbers be brought with her to drink of the bitter water. “The husband” is mentioned but not the other party in the adultery. First reading…it was literal and I picked it apart as offensive. As a creep ritual performed upon “women”.

The above though clarifies it better than I can …what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants.
See, wow it’s not respect of a gender but tells another story. Yes also can see the woman is saved through child bearing. When Christ is born.

 

[Mr E]

I see the two women in the bitter water parable
Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, (that bears wrath) do you not listen to the law? [22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. [23] But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. [24] Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. [25] Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. [26] But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. [27] For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband." [28] Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. [29] But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. [30] But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." [31] So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

As I said earlier concerning seeing:
My first seeing or reading of the Adulterous woman who the priest makes to drink the bitter water out from the Law of Jealousies. I saw gender of condemnation against (women). I mean why does a man, whoever committed adultery with the woman from Numbers be brought with her to drink of the bitter water. “The husband” is mentioned but not the other (make)party in the adultery. First reading…it was literal and I picked it apart as offensive.

The above though clarifies it better than I can …of what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants.

You are getting it. I LOVE that it invites any reader to interpret allegorically. It's like shouting-- LOOK FOR MORE!

When you do, you see beyond the obvious story of Hagar and Sarah, and the writer says--- forget about that for a minute. Hagar is the earthly Jerusalem-- mother of slaves. Sarah is the Jerusalem above-- home of the free.

It's quite different than how both Jews and Christians view Jerusalem today.

 

[Mr E]

Now consider the woman in your OP. (look for more)

What is she? Just a woman? Or something beyond? And what is adultery? --it's unfaithfulness. In the spiritual sense, it's no different than idolatry. They are co-equal. Both front and center of those ten commandments.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I see the two women in the bitter water parable
Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, (that bears wrath) do you not listen to the law? [22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. [23] But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. [24] Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. [25] Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. [26] But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. [27] For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband." [28] Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. [29] But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. [30] But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." [31] So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

As I said earlier concerning seeing:
My first seeing or reading of the Adulterous woman who the priest makes to drink the bitter water out from the Law of Jealousies. I saw gender of condemnation against (women). I mean why does a man, whoever committed adultery with the woman from Numbers be brought with her to drink of the bitter water. “The husband” is mentioned but not the other party in the adultery. First reading…it was literal and I picked it apart as offensive. As a creep ritual performed upon “women”.

The above though clarifies it better than I can …what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants.
See, wow it’s not respect of a gender but tells another story. Yes also can see the woman is saved through child bearing. When Christ is born.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
You quoted Gal 4:21-31. Here is what Paul is teaching with the birthing analogy as it applies to the Elect:

All mankind is represented by the son (Ishmael) who is birthed by Satan and Hagar. Ishmael is a "type" for a child of the devil. Because mankind is the offspring of Satan and Hagar, mankind is born into slavery (to sin) and is under the Law. But since God the Father desires His own children, He sent Christ to be the Savior of the world (1John 4:14). In other words, Christ's mission that the Father gave Him is to "convert" mankind into children of God. In this age, Christ is only converting the chosen Elect. They will be the heirs and are called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. They are blessed.

Christ begins the conversion process within each of His Elect when He comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. However, the Early Rain will leave the person carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, the person will not be converted.

They will still prefer the Old Wine (Old Covenant) over the New Wine (New Covenant):

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The believers who Paul is addressing in Galatians 4 have only received the Early Rain and are still preferring the Old Wine over the New Wine. They are still under the Law.

The Old Wine is also represented by the woman Hagar, mankind's mother (she also represents our carnal nature). She is synonymous with the terms earthly Jerusalem, Sodom, Egypt and the Great Harlot.

The next step on the pathway to salvation for the Elect person occurs when Satan enters them via the spirit of anti-Christ. When this happens, the person will be made "worse than the first" (a worsened child of the devil, a man of sin). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs within the Elect person (they are God's temple since the Early Rain of the Spirit indwells them).

After the Elect person has fully accepted Satan's "another gospel", they will be ready for Christ to come to them a second time with the Latter Rain (Mat 24:14). With the Latter Rain, the Elect person will have their spiritual blindness healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had occurred within them earlier (Mat 24:15). Judgment will then fall on the person and they will be "converted" into a child of God.

In the analogy, the child of God's father is Christ and their mother is Sarah (New Covenant). The child "Isaac" is a type for the child of God. Scripture also says that this is when Christ is birthed within the person.

You said:
The above though clarifies it better than I can …what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants. See, wow it’s not respect of a gender but tells another story. Yes also can see the woman is saved through child bearing. When Christ is born.

I'm happy that you are now seeing that the spiritual word "woman" does not represent a physical gender.

Joe

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Now consider the woman in your OP. (look for more)

What is she? Just a woman? Or something beyond? And what is adultery? --it's unfaithfulness. In the spiritual sense, it's no different than idolatry. They are co-equal. Both front and center of those ten commandments.

I don’t know. One thing that does stand out is how well the Pharisees and scribes knew scripture (as well as the devil could quote scripture tempting Jesus in the wilderness) …in taking the woman caught in the act of adultery to Him…and also the verses that follow
John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
Their referring to:
John 7:16-19 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he will know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [19] Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keep the law? Why go you about to kill me?

That is maybe not relevant to your asking me to consider the woman caught in adultery but I’ve never noticed how well the Pharisees and scribes quotes the scriptures to do harm against Him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Dear VictoryinJesus,
You quoted Gal 4:21-31. Here is what Paul is teaching with the birthing analogy as it applies to the Elect:

All mankind is represented by the son (Ishmael) who is birthed by Satan and Hagar. Ishmael is a "type" for a child of the devil. Because mankind is the offspring of Satan and Hagar, mankind is born into slavery (to sin) and is under the Law. But since God the Father desires His own children, He sent Christ to be the Savior of the world (1John 4:14). In other words, Christ's mission that the Father gave Him is to "convert" mankind into children of God. In this age, Christ is only converting the chosen Elect. They will be the heirs and are called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. They are blessed.

Christ begins the conversion process within each of His Elect when He comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. However, the Early Rain will leave the person carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, the person will not be converted.

They will still prefer the Old Wine (Old Covenant) over the New Wine (New Covenant):

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The believers who Paul is addressing in Galatians 4 have only received the Early Rain and are still preferring the Old Wine over the New Wine. They are still under the Law.

The Old Wine is also represented by the woman Hagar, mankind's mother (she also represents our carnal nature). She is synonymous with the terms earthly Jerusalem, Sodom, Egypt and the Great Harlot.

The next step on the pathway to salvation for the Elect person occurs when Satan enters them via the spirit of anti-Christ. When this happens, the person will be made "worse than the first" (a worsened child of the devil, a man of sin). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs within the Elect person (they are God's temple since the Early Rain of the Spirit indwells them).

After the Elect person has fully accepted Satan's "another gospel", they will be ready for Christ to come to them a second time with the Latter Rain (Mat 24:14). With the Latter Rain, the Elect person will have their spiritual blindness healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had occurred within them earlier (Mat 24:15). Judgment will then fall on the person and they will be "converted" into a child of God.

In the analogy, the child of God's father is Christ and their mother is Sarah (New Covenant). The child "Isaac" is a type for the child of God. Scripture also says that this is when Christ is birthed within the person.

You said:
The above though clarifies it better than I can …what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants. See, wow it’s not respect of a gender but tells another story. Yes also can see the woman is saved through child bearing. When Christ is born.

I'm happy that you are now seeing that the spiritual word "woman" does not represent a physical gender.

Joe

You do share a lot that is helpful. Thank you. But what throws me in most of your post is the time table…I don’t understand it. For example “when” this happens then this will happen. I’m sure how that all fits.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You do share a lot that is helpful. Thank you. But what throws me in most of your post is the time table…I don’t understand it. For example “when” this happens then this will happen. I’m sure how that all fits.

Dear VictoryinJesus,
Christ teaches that there is a step by step spiritual process that He causes His Elect to travel to be converted. That pathway began in about 62 A.D when Paul wrote this to Timothy:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul is referring to his conversion experience (Acts chapter 9) which began on the Damascus Road (Early Rain) and ended a few days later after being in Damascus for three days. Paul's conversion experience teaches many of the details of the pathway to salvation. Also, Christ's "longsuffering" occurs while an Elect believer is in a fallen away spiritual state that occurs during the time they spend between the Early and Latter Rains.

The pathway to salvation is very concealed in scripture and is a part of the "great mystery" of Christ and His church (Eph 5:32). It is taught in Christ's spiritual language and is presented in scripture "here a little and there a little". We also have to build that understanding "line upon line" and "percept upon precept" (like constructing a building).

This verse applies:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk (the converted Elect), and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

It took me several years of studying to fully understand the pathway to salvation after I was converted and had my spiritual blindness healed. My conversion occurred back in 2005. At that time, I was 44 years old and had unknowingly been in the apostate church all my life.

This scripture very well sums up my experience in my search for God's hidden treasure after my blindness was healed:

Prov 2:1 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Since the apostate church is made up of believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are spiritually blind and do not understand the pathway to salvation. They are the ones who have fallen "backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken" by Satan. All the Elect must pass through this time of "great tribulation" (as Matthew 24:21 calls it).

The pathway to salvation starts with the Early Rain of the Spirit and it ends when Christ "comes again" (this is commonly called the second coming of Christ but is greatly misunderstood). When Christ 'comes again", He will first increase a fallen away Elect believer's faith and cause them to stop mixing their own "works" with faith. To cause this to happen, Christ will send a person to them in the spirit of Elijah. John the Baptist served this purpose for the Jewish Elect. Once the believer repents of mixing works with faith, the pathway for Christ to "come again" is made straight.

Note: Man's works (which is the foundation of the Old Covenant) is called the crooked way. This is the way taught by Satan's "another gospel" and is why scripture calls Satan the "crooked serpent". The crooked way is also pleasing to mankind's carnal nature. An Early Rain believer will prefer the Old Wine over the New Wine until they are converted (Luke 5:39). That is why a new believer who remains carnal and blind will quickly accept Satan's false gospel. Satan has no problem at all deceiving new believers.

Christ said this about it:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Christ also said this:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This post is getting a little long but before I end, I wanted to summarize the steps of the pathway to salvation. I can give scriptural support for any of the steps that you may have questions about - just let me know.

Here are the major events which occur on the Pathway to Salvation for Christ’s Elect:

• The receiving of the Early Rain of the Spirit and entering the church.
• The coming of the spirit of anti-Christ to the believer and their consuming of leavened bread.
• Falling away, the Abomination of Desolation and becoming a Man of Sin.
• Hearing and answering the call of Elijah so that the pathway for Christ is made straight.
• The Second Coming of Christ when He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and seals the Elect believer.
• Spiritual blindness healed.
• Marriage Supper when the believer consumes milk, bread, meat and New Wine.
• From their new knowledge, Christ spiritually appears and gathers the believer to dwell with Him in heaven.
• Judgment of the Day of the Lord (more specifically, it is the Thousand Years Reign).
• Conversion.
• The time of testing.
• The bodily resurrection at the end of the age.

Joe

 

[Mr E]

I don’t know. One thing that does stand out is how well the Pharisees and scribes knew scripture (as well as the devil could quote scripture tempting Jesus in the wilderness) …in taking the woman caught in the act of adultery to Him…and also the verses that follow
John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
Their referring to:
John 7:16-19 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he will know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. [19] Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keep the law? Why go you about to kill me?

That is maybe not relevant to your asking me to consider the woman caught in adultery but I’ve never noticed how well the Pharisees and scribes quotes the scriptures to do harm against Him.

They had an external understanding of scripture. They knew the scriptures well, and harnessed them for their own external purposes, while Jesus had the inner workings of the spirit-- within him. He knew the scriptures also, and the logos, or logic of God was in him, explaining and expressing the Father's intent.

Oh, but they knew the Law alright. And Jesus used 'their head knowledge' against them -- the way you do battle with any lawyer--- by citing the actual law and any precedent cases/decisions.

What was the Law? The Law of Moses required (as has been pointed out) that both the woman and the man who were caught in adultery should be stoned. So that's a completely fair question that has been asked here-- 'Where is the man?' We don't know, because it wasn't recorded for us what Jesus wrote in the dirt-- in the earth, but perhaps he wrote the woman's name and if he did then 'by law' the man's name should be listed beside hers.

Jeremiah 17 says:

The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart.

And- All that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

I find all of that interesting-- that he would squat and write 'in the dirt' like that. He could have argued the point and verbally sparred with them as on other occasions, or told a story, lectured or scolded them, but instead he scratched whatever he wrote, in the earth.

And maybe also, he wrote the names of accusers. Law required the testimony of at least two eye witnesses in order to be considered a valid accusation. Law also dictated that these witnesses were to be the ones to cast the first stone. His challenge calling on 'he who is without sin' to cast the first stone is a direct shot at those supposed witnesses. And the same law requires the same penalty for anyone bearing false witness, if they are lying. It's a fascinating story if you look closely.

Interesting that Jesus didn't cast a stone, eh?

 

[Waiting on him]

Dear VictoryinJesus,
You quoted Gal 4:21-31. Here is what Paul is teaching with the birthing analogy as it applies to the Elect:

All mankind is represented by the son (Ishmael) who is birthed by Satan and Hagar. Ishmael is a "type" for a child of the devil. Because mankind is the offspring of Satan and Hagar, mankind is born into slavery (to sin) and is under the Law. But since God the Father desires His own children, He sent Christ to be the Savior of the world (1John 4:14). In other words, Christ's mission that the Father gave Him is to "convert" mankind into children of God. In this age, Christ is only converting the chosen Elect. They will be the heirs and are called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. They are blessed.

Christ begins the conversion process within each of His Elect when He comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. However, the Early Rain will leave the person carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, the person will not be converted.

They will still prefer the Old Wine (Old Covenant) over the New Wine (New Covenant):

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The believers who Paul is addressing in Galatians 4 have only received the Early Rain and are still preferring the Old Wine over the New Wine. They are still under the Law.

The Old Wine is also represented by the woman Hagar, mankind's mother (she also represents our carnal nature). She is synonymous with the terms earthly Jerusalem, Sodom, Egypt and the Great Harlot.

The next step on the pathway to salvation for the Elect person occurs when Satan enters them via the spirit of anti-Christ. When this happens, the person will be made "worse than the first" (a worsened child of the devil, a man of sin). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs within the Elect person (they are God's temple since the Early Rain of the Spirit indwells them).

After the Elect person has fully accepted Satan's "another gospel", they will be ready for Christ to come to them a second time with the Latter Rain (Mat 24:14). With the Latter Rain, the Elect person will have their spiritual blindness healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had occurred within them earlier (Mat 24:15). Judgment will then fall on the person and they will be "converted" into a child of God.

In the analogy, the child of God's father is Christ and their mother is Sarah (New Covenant). The child "Isaac" is a type for the child of God. Scripture also says that this is when Christ is birthed within the person.

You said:
The above though clarifies it better than I can …what the bitter water analogy represents and what it reveals of these women are two covenants. See, wow it’s not respect of a gender but tells another story. Yes also can see the woman is saved through child bearing. When Christ is born.

I'm happy that you are now seeing that the spiritual word "woman" does not represent a physical gender.

Joe

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
— 1 Timothy 2:15

 

[Waiting on him]

It took me several years of studying to fully understand the pathway to salvation after I was converted and had my spiritual blindness healed. My conversion occurred back in 2005. At that time, I was 44 years old and had unknowingly been in the apostate church all my life.

Paul was only in the desert for three years.

 

[Mark51]

John 8:3-11 Now the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in the act of adultery, and after placing her in the center of the courtyard, [4] they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of committing adultery. [5] Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [6] Now they were saying this to test Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [7] When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [8] And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [9] Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. [10] And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [11] She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”

My husband brought up a good question this morning. Where is the man caught in adultery with the woman? To me this is significant because of reading on sites of comments with why God’s word is offense. One thing that is brought up on those sites (of why God is sexist) is the man is exempt and it’s always the woman for example the woman raped in the OT who didn’t cry out.

Where is the man caught in adulterous acts with the woman they wished to cast stones at?

John 8:1-11 is deemed to have been added several centuries after John’s penned this inspired gospel. Consequently, such verses are suspect and not all version/translations of the Bible contain them.

I also question this account because it does not mention, imply, accuse, and condemn the woman’s partner. Was she married? Was the participating partner married? Was she single and therefore actually guilty of committing fornication? Under the Mosaic Law, fornicators were not subjected to the same discipline under fleshly adultery.

Just as verse 6 states: “…they were saying this to put him to the test….” There are other scriptures where the scribes and Pharisees tried to put Jesus to a test with the intention to make accusations against him. In verse 7, Jesus was making a point of showing mercy. It seems to me that he indicated/implied that the accusers may themselves have been guilty of adultery/fornication. The difference is that their conducts was not uncovered. Is it not the same in modern times? For example, is not a woman’s sexual misconduct viewed differently than a man’s?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Paul was only in the desert for three years.

Dear Waiting on him,

Below is where Paul applies the birthing analogy to himself:

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Concerning your comment about Paul being in the desert for three years, I can't find any information on that in scripture. Did you find it in scripture?

What I have found in scripture is that Paul spent three days in Damascus while he was blind (represents his spiritual blindness) and unable to drink (blood of the New Covenant) or eat (true bread from heaven). In Christ's spiritual language, this represents the time Paul spent int the wilderness.

Paul's three days in Damascus occurred after he received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. The "three" days represents a spiritual process and "types" when Paul was made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when Satan killed Paul.

Damascus is another symbol which means the same as Sodom/Old Jerusalem/Great Harlot. Those symbols all represents mankind's carnal nature. For that reason, scripture says that Old Jerusalem is where Satan kills the saints (through our carnal nature).

Do you understand the full "type" that Paul's conversion experience teaches?

Paul's conversion experience is a "type" for the pathway to salvation that all the Elect "hereafter" will travel:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern (type) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The pathway to salvation is frequently taught in the NT using types, parables and analogies ("a little here and a little there", Isa 28:9-12). The woman taken in adultery is one of those types.

Joe

 

[Waiting on him]

Dear Waiting on him,

Below is where Paul applies the birthing analogy to himself:

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Concerning your comment about Paul being in the desert for three years, I can't find any information on that in scripture. Did you find it in scripture?

What I have found in scripture is that Paul spent three days in Damascus while he was blind (represents his spiritual blindness) and unable to drink (blood of the New Covenant) or eat (true bread from heaven). In Christ's spiritual language, this represents the time Paul spent int the wilderness.

Paul's three days in Damascus occurred after he received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. The "three" days represents a spiritual process and "types" when Paul was made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when Satan killed Paul.

Damascus is another symbol which means the same as Sodom/Old Jerusalem/Great Harlot. Those symbols all represents mankind's carnal nature. For that reason, scripture says that Old Jerusalem is where Satan kills the saints (through our carnal nature).

Do you understand the full "type" that Paul's conversion experience teaches?

Paul's conversion experience is a "type" for the pathway to salvation that all the Elect "hereafter" will travel:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern (type) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The pathway to salvation is frequently taught in the NT using types, parables and analogies ("a little here and a little there", Isa 28:9-12). The woman taken in adultery is one of those types.

Joe

Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
— Galatians 1:17-18
It could be a misunderstanding on my part?
Paul at some point receive the Gospel he taught from the Man Jesus Christ.

What do you believe Paul was up too there in the region where Mt Sinai is located for three years?

 

[Waiting on him]

Dear Waiting on him,

Below is where Paul applies the birthing analogy to himself:

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Concerning your comment about Paul being in the desert for three years, I can't find any information on that in scripture. Did you find it in scripture?

What I have found in scripture is that Paul spent three days in Damascus while he was blind (represents his spiritual blindness) and unable to drink (blood of the New Covenant) or eat (true bread from heaven). In Christ's spiritual language, this represents the time Paul spent int the wilderness.

Paul's three days in Damascus occurred after he received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. The "three" days represents a spiritual process and "types" when Paul was made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when Satan killed Paul.

Damascus is another symbol which means the same as Sodom/Old Jerusalem/Great Harlot. Those symbols all represents mankind's carnal nature. For that reason, scripture says that Old Jerusalem is where Satan kills the saints (through our carnal nature).

Do you understand the full "type" that Paul's conversion experience teaches?

Paul's conversion experience is a "type" for the pathway to salvation that all the Elect "hereafter" will travel:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern (type) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The pathway to salvation is frequently taught in the NT using types, parables and analogies ("a little here and a little there", Isa 28:9-12). The woman taken in adultery is one of those types.

Joe

I was reading Genesis this morning and something really odd occurred to me. In the account of the woman eating from the tree of knowledge, it is the man that is put out of the garden. No mention of the woman. They become one.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
— Genesis 3:22-24

The Man became as one of us? No mention of the woman. The man went east.

 

[JohnDB]

John 8 is highly disputed text...mostly because it belongs in Mark 10.

Because it's written in Mark's style of writing instead of John's style.


I know, not exactly a popular discussion topic but it fits in Mark 10 much more poignantly than in John 8.

Because Jesus taught: point, counter-point, and the impossible position to hold.

Because after a divorce it's impossible to be like a little innocent child without resentment, hardened hearts, and bitterness. But with God all things are possible.

 

[Waiting on him]

Do you understand the full "type" that Paul's conversion experience teaches?

I’m learning more each and every day!

There a woman in Revelation that is chased into the desert in birth pains. She is about to deliver a man child. As the story goes a dragon’s awaits the delivery wishing to devour the child but the earth helps the woman.