THE WORD OF GOD

[Eternal Entity]

The author known as "John" tells us that Jesus said and did many things that are not recorded in the Bible. John 21:25 tells us: 'And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.'

This raises a question: what did Jesus say that is not recorded?

The Gospel of John itself suggests that what was recorded was selected for a purpose - that readers might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). But that purpose does not exhaust the full witness of Jesus. The Spirit, Jesus said, would guide his followers into all truth (John 16:13). That guidance was not limited to the written text - to the Bible itself - that object which many declare and worship as THE WORD OF GOD.

Rather THE WORD OF GOD represents many facets of communion - many ways in which GOD speaks and has interactions with Humans. Not just one book and not just what that one book examples in those witnesses and reports contained in said book.

The Word that is GOD is not confined to a book. That Word is living, active, and still speaking. The Bible bears witness to that Word, but it is not identical to it. It offers but a thin layer in the total strata of the incredible variety of how GOD speaks. The written word points to the Living Word, but it cannot contain Him fully.

 

[Eternal Entity]

The Bible is the ONLY book that was penned by over 40 writers, during a period exceeding 1500 years & completed approx 2000 years ago.
NO other book comes close

Who ever told you that, and whoever tells it like that are not speaking TRUTH.
A library can be described in the same way.
The bible is a set of documents which can be regarded as "books" in their own right.
Other religions also have a "book of books" so the Bible is not alone in that regard as one believes.
Even the book of revelations shows us that when the author of that book wrote about not adding or taking anything away from his book, he was not talking about the Bible but of the book that he had written about his alternate experience. We know this because the Bible as we know it today, did not even exist when Revelations was written.

Multiple authorship over a long period does not, in itself, prove divine origin; it merely proves cultural endurance. If longevity and multiplicity were the sole markers of divine truth, then Hinduism and Zoroastrianism would have equal or greater claims.

The Bible is not a single book; it is a canon - a curated collection of scrolls, letters, poems, genealogies, apocalyptic visions, and legal codes. The very word biblia is plural in Greek, meaning "little books." To treat the Bible as a single unified "book" is a post-printing-press convenience, not an ancient reality. The early Church did not possess a leather-bound, gold-leafed codex; they possessed scattered papyri in different communities, many of which they debated over which were authoritative.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Think of it like this - and perhaps take it to your heart...
The recorded words of Jesus in the Bible are the Drop.
Whereas, the unrecorded words of Jesus are the Lake...

 

[NayborBear]

Hebrews 7:11

If therefore perfection (completeness) were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that ANOTHER priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

 

[NayborBear]

Ya see? This thing called internet CAN be used as a good thing!
If it were mandatory that we all had to congregate together?
1 grenade would GET US ALL!
As HE told me?
"I ain't playin' that way!"
"NO MORE!"

 

[Eternal Entity]

I LOVE YOU

What do you want - What is your desire
It will be given to you on a pillar of fire
All of your dreams - Will be made real
Whatever you want my child - Whatever you feel
I love you


Your flesh is young - your bones are new
Words on your tongue may be many or few
Kingdoms are built on words use them with care
Thought is an instrument we don't need to fear
I love you
I love you


Sit with the circle children -now close your eyes
Think on the silence of infinities skies
Your guardian Angel resides within
Helps you to see the end from where you begin
I love you
I love you
I love you


Feel free to change your world ask and receive
Goodness will give you all the things that you need
With this in mind you are sure to desire
All that you need will be all you require
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you


What do you want my child - what is your desire
It will be given to you on a pillar of fire
All of your dearest dreams will be fulfilled
Whatever you receive will be all you have willed
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you
I love you

 

[Papa Smurf]

This raises a question: what did Jesus say that is not recorded?

Hello Eternal Entity, since we cannot know (not on this side of the grave anyway), why bother raising the question

The good news about this (which we begin to find deep in the OT, and then throughout the rest of the Bible too) is that God loves us and has given us all that we need, to find Him, to know Him, to know what He thinks of us and what He wants/expects from us, as well how to be reconciled, forgiven and saved by Him (so that we can spend the balance of eternity with Him rather than apart from Him ). We don't know why there are "secret things" and Biblical "mysteries", etc., that He has chosen not to reveal to us, but what we do know (again) is that He's given us all that we 'need' to know and understand for now.

As the 5th Book of the Pentateuch puts it for us,

Deuteronomy 29​

29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.​

The Word that is GOD is not confined to a book.

Well, yes, of course. The "Word" or "Logos" of God, who is God, the 2nd Member of the Trinitarian Godhead, that is, is a Divine (and now also human) Person, NOT a scroll or a book, but everything that He needs us to know (for now anyway) is contained in His Book, the Bible.

That Word is living, active, and still speaking. The Bible bears witness to that Word, but it is not identical to it. It offers but a thin layer in the total strata of the incredible variety of how GOD speaks. The written word points to the Living Word, but it cannot contain Him fully.

What God is "typically" referring to when He speaks of "the word of God" in the Bible, is the Bible, ~not~ His only begotten Son (who I believe is only referred to as the "Word" of God in the opening 14 verses of John 1). IOW, it's the Bible, not the Lord Jesus, that is said to be living and active today (Hebrews 4:12), and indeed it is because, even though it was written many millennia ago, it is still able to judge the thoughts and intentions of our hearts and by doing so properly expose and diagnose the sin that infects our hearts, which is only possible because it is the inspired ("breathed") word of the living God .. e.g. 1 Timothy 4:10 (who is the same yesterday and today and forever .. e.g. Hebrews 13:8).

We typically (or first and foremost) speak to the Lord through prayer today, and He typically speaks to us through His God-breathed word, the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17). In what other ways do you still believe that He speaks to us today, apart from the Bible, that is

Thanks

May the Lord bless you as you seek to find Him and know Him!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - we do, along with the Bible, declare the Bible to be the inspired word of God, but we never worship the printed page, rather, we worship the Divine Author of those words, and Him alone.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hello Eternal Entity, since we cannot know (not on this side of the grave anyway), why bother raising the question

Where did you get the impression that "we cannot know"?

 

[ScottA]

The Bible is the ONLY book that was penned by over 40 writers, during a period exceeding 1500 years & completed approx 2000 years ago.
NO other book comes close

Who ever told you that, and whoever tells it like that are not speaking TRUTH.
A library can be described in the same way.
The bible is a set of documents which can be regarded as "books" in their own right.
Other religions also have a "book of books" so the Bible is not alone in that regard as one believes.
Even the book of revelations shows us that when the author of that book wrote about not adding or taking anything away from his book, he was not talking about the Bible but of the book that he had written about his alternate experience. We know this because the Bible as we know it today, did not even exist when Revelations was written.

Multiple authorship over a long period does not, in itself, prove divine origin; it merely proves cultural endurance. If longevity and multiplicity were the sole markers of divine truth, then Hinduism and Zoroastrianism would have equal or greater claims.

The Bible is not a single book; it is a canon - a curated collection of scrolls, letters, poems, genealogies, apocalyptic visions, and legal codes. The very word biblia is plural in Greek, meaning "little books." To treat the Bible as a single unified "book" is a post-printing-press convenience, not an ancient reality. The early Church did not possess a leather-bound, gold-leafed codex; they possessed scattered papyri in different communities, many of which they debated over which were authoritative.

What makes the Bible unique in all the world, is its connectivity from the beginning to the end of time and this world, from many authors who's only connection is God who spoke to or inspired them by one means or another down through all of recorded history. Wherein, it is stated (as God speaking) that His word is His alone, not under the providence of men who may seem to have had control of it from time to time, but is rather under His providence alone.

 

[ScottA]

This raises a question: what did Jesus say that is not recorded?

Actually, there are even things written that are written about that were not published. Even so, "the words are spirit", thus otherwise written, even if not on parchment--and even those that are do not fully revealed "all truth" in their literary form.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Where did you get the impression that "we cannot know"?

Hello again Eternal Entity, first and foremost, from common sense. How can we know what the Lord Jesus (or anyone else for that matter) did (or said) more than 2,000 years ago unless it has been recorded in some manner and passed down to us

What am I missing here

Thanks!

--Papa Smurf

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hello again Eternal Entity, first and foremost, from common sense. How can we know what the Lord Jesus (or anyone else for that matter) did (or said) more than 2,000 years ago unless it has been recorded in some manner and passed down to us

What am I missing here

Thanks!

--Papa Smurf

Do you not think The Father can relay that data? (seek and you shall find?)

 

[Papa Smurf]

Do you not think The Father can relay that data? (seek and you shall find?)

Hello again Eternal Entity, in response to your question above, the very same Being who spoke the Universe into existence has shown Himself to be quite the capable communicator over the millennia too, so I have no doubt that if He ~wanted~ to relay all of the additional, missing data (about His Son's activities here among us) that He could certainly do so. That said, I don't believe that the question, "can He do so", is what truly needs to be asked.

Instead, what we really need to consider (if all of this missing, historical data is vital for us to know) is this, 1. why didn't He do so 2,000 years ago (because He certainly could have if He wanted to) and 2. why hasn't He done so by now, 2,000 years later (because He certainly could have done so if He wanted to)

The thing is, He sent His one and only Son here to die on the Cross on our behalf, to redeem us so that we could be forgiven by/reconciled to our heavenly Father (so that we wouldn't have to live out eternity without Him, nor He w/o us ).

He has also promised us that we already have ~all~ that we need to find our way to Him and come to know Him, that He will save us and continue to sanctify us (make us more and more Christlike) throughout the balance of our lives here, and that He will watch over us and see us safely through this life to be with Him in Glory (in the age to come).

So, I'm grateful for all that we've ALREADY been given, and I have no doubt that what we already have is all that we will ever need, so why waste time trying to acquire information that God does not deem necessary for us to know

He has clearly demonstrated that He loves us, cares about us, and wants the very best for us, and because He is God, He is able to see that we get it, too (and since He knows us/knows our hearts, He also knows exactly what that is, even when we so often do not).

This is one of the reasons that I finally decided to become a Christian and to trust Him with my life, both in the here and now, and in the age to come

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Romans 5​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. ​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. ​

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hello again Eternal Entity, in response to your question above, the very same Being who spoke the Universe into existence has shown Himself to be quite the capable communicator over the millennia too, so I have no doubt that if He ~wanted~ to relay all of the additional, missing data (about His Son's activities here among us) that He could certainly do so.

Yes.

That said, I don't believe that the question, "can He do so", is what truly needs to be asked. Instead, what we really need to consider (if all of this missing, historical data is vital for us to know) is, 1. why didn't He do so 2,000 years ago (because He certainly could have if He wanted to) and 2. why hasn't He done so by now, 2,000 years later (because He certainly could have if He wanted to)

Who is to say that He does not?

The thing is, He sent His one and only Son here to die on the Cross on our behalf, to redeem us so that we could be forgiven by/reconciled to our heavenly Father (so that we wouldn't have to live out eternity without Him, nor He w/o us ).

Yes. Any extra data would be conveyed only to those seeking more than is available in the bible.

He has also promised us that we already have ~all~ that we need to find our way to Him and come to know Him, that He will save us and continue to sanctify us (make us more and more Christlike) throughout the balance of our lives here, and that He will watch over us and see us safely through this life to be with Him in Glory (in the age to come).

Even so, there will be those who seek more in the interim.

So, I'm grateful for all that we've ALREADY been given, and I have no doubt that what we already have is all that we will ever need, so why waste time trying to acquire information that God does not deem necessary for us to know

Of course. Why would GOD give information to those who don't think there is more to necessarily know?

He has clearly demonstrated that He loves us, cares about us, and wants the very best for us, and because He is God, He is able to see that we get it, too (and since He knows us/knows our hearts, He also knows exactly what that is, even when we so often do not).
This is one of the reasons that I finally decided to become a Christian and to trust Him with my life, both in the here and now, and in the age to come too



God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Romans 5​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. ​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. ​

I think that anyone who - like yourself - wants to go along with that "why bother", then "okay" as long as such do not complain or question the validity those who go further/deeper...

Which is to say, why would we be informed there was more to know, if it wasn't relevant?

 

[Papa Smurf]

......extra data would be conveyed only to those seeking more than is available in the bible.

Hello Eternal Entity, while we may consider how that might happen, and also, why such a thing has never happened before (a conveyance or data drop*, that is, of all of the unknown, missing, never before seen historical data on the Lord Jesus Christ), the thing that I'm wondering about first is, what is your endgame IOW, what do you plan to do with all of this new information if you happen to get it, what do you think that you'll find, and perhaps also, what are you hoping to discover

Why would GOD give information to those who don't think there is more to necessarily know?

Well, that would fit the pattern that He's always used with us over the millennia, would it not (giving us what we need/need to know, whether we want it and know that we need it, or not).

IOW, He is "for us"/on our side, which He proved to us when He sent His Son here to live for us and to die on the Cross for us/in our stead. His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, was the very best that He had to offer or give to us, so why would He withhold anything else from us going forward (Romans 8:32), unless He knew that it would be useless and/or harmful to us in some way, of course

......why would we be informed there was more to know, if it wasn't relevant?

As I mentioned earlier, God loves us/cares for us/always wants the very best for us, and He told us that He has already given us all that we need & need to know in this life about Him in order to find Him and know Him, in order to be saved by Him/receive eternal life from Him, and to glorify Him and enjoy Him, forever

The fact that the Apostle John mentioned that Jesus did MANY more AMAZING things during His short time with us (as a man) is what is relevant in this case (so that we would know this, be even more amazed by Him, and be able to share it with others), but the minute details (about EVERTHING that He did, EVERY miracle that He performed, etc.) are not relevant (in the case of the missing information concerning His ministry years, as well His early years growing up). You know, sometimes looking at the beauty of a forest as a whole, rather than always taking a closeup look at everything that it contains, is exactly what is needed, especially if it keeps our focus right where it needs to be, on that which ~truly~ matters!

Again, we can be assured of this, that God (who loves us) has already revealed any/all information that is vital for us to know.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - lastly, if (or hopefully, when) you come to saving faith, you will have a very different perspective concerning the incredible amount of information and knowledge that God has already blessed us with and, like me, I'm certain that you will quickly come to realize that the eternity that lies before us will likely not be enough time to truly grasp all of it, mine all of its depths and/or to know and understand all that there is to know and understand, about Him!

If you have the time, please consider this, as well, the difference between knowing all that can be known ~about~ God (on the one hand), and simply ~knowing~ Him (on the other) because, while knowing as much as we can about Him is incredibly important, the key to literally everything is found in knowing Him (personally), instead. Or as the Lord Jesus said,

John 17​

3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. ​

*(You know, if a direct conveyance or data drop of information from God to us is possible, then why do you think that He has always used prophets, apostles, theologians, evangelists, apologists, pastors and billons of the members of laity (as witnesses) over the years to get the Gospel message out, instead of just using the data drop method from the get-go

The Bible, in point of fact, tells us that He does/has always done that in a small way, by writing a basic set of laws on the heart of everyone from birth (which is why everyone/everywhere has an innate knowledge & understanding of right & wrong, good & evil, from a very early age .. e.g. Romans 2:14-15. So, why do you think that He chose to stop there, rather than giving us the whole Law instead? How could doing so possibly be understood to be a benefit and blessing to us do you think )

 

[Eternal Entity]

Hello Eternal Entity, while we may consider how that might happen, and also, why such a thing has never happened before (a conveyance or data drop*, that is, of all of the unknown, missing, never before seen historical data on the Lord Jesus Christ), the thing that I'm wondering about first is, what is your endgame IOW, what do you plan to do with all of this new information if you happen to get it, what do you think that you'll find, and perhaps also, what are you hoping to discover

Hi PS
You are assuming a data drop of this magnitude is what I am suggesting. The Lake is for exploring -

the thing that I'm wondering about first is, what is your endgame IOW, what do you plan to do with all of this new information if you happen to get it, what do you think that you'll find, and perhaps also, what are you hoping to discover

The information is found in the exploration - there is no "end game"

what do you plan to do with all of this new information if you happen to get it, what do you think that you'll find, and perhaps also, what are you hoping to discover

Truth previously hidden

Well, that would fit the pattern that He's always used with us over the millennia, would it not (giving us what we need/need to know, whether we want it and know that we need it, or not).

No. The pattern has been for the Christian Church to continue delivering the information they have to those who are unable or unwilling to go further than the basics that the faith demand.

IOW, He is "for us"/on our side, which He proved to us when He sent His Son here to live for us and to die on the Cross for us/in our stead. His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, was the very best that He had to offer or give to us, so why would He withhold anything else from us going forward (Romans 8:32), unless He knew that it would be useless and/or harmful to us in some way, of course

Was it really "the very best he had to offer"? Why would someone think that? How do they know that is true. There is no withholding going forward at all. Rather there is a resistance to knowing more - as you wrote "why bother?" - that is the general attitude. "Why bother" is not GOD withholding anything. "Why bother" is the one asking, doing the withholding - or more specifically the resisting.

Naturally enough, GOD gives to those who seek not to those who say "why bother seeking".

 

[Eternal Entity]

As I mentioned earlier, God loves us/cares for us/always wants the very best for us, and He told us that He has already given us all that we need & need to know in this life about Him in order to find Him and know Him, in order to be saved by Him/receive eternal life from Him, and to glorify Him and enjoy Him, forever

Of course, what we may think is "the very best for us" may not be the same as what GOD thinks will be the very best for us.

The fact that the Apostle John mentioned that Jesus did MANY more AMAZING things during His short time with us (as a man) is what is relevant in this case (so that we would know this, be even more amazed by Him, and be able to share it with others), but the minute details (about EVERTHING that He did, EVERY miracle that He performed, etc.) are not relevant (in the case of the missing information concerning His ministry years, as well His early years growing up). You know, sometimes looking at the beauty of a forest as a whole, rather than always taking a closeup look at everything that it contains, is exactly what is needed, especially if it keeps our focus right where it needs to be, on that which ~truly~ matters!

One need not assume John was simply mentioning "minute details". Indeed, it is the details we would otherwise not seek if we simply stayed in the contained arena of salvation.

One can be content to "know GOD" in the image of the whole forest or one can prefer to explore the whole forest in absolute detail. But tell me, which person knows the whole forest intimately? The one viewing it as a whole image or the one exploring it in every detail?

p.s. - lastly, if (or hopefully, when) you come to saving faith, you will have a very different perspective concerning the incredible amount of information and knowledge that God has already blessed us with and, like me, I'm certain that you will quickly come to realize that the eternity that lies before us will likely not be enough time to truly grasp all of it, mine all of its depths and/or to know and understand all that there is to know and understand, about Him!

You presume I have not already gone through all of that. The truth is, I have long been there and done that and have since moved into the depths and discovered a whole other "world" to explore. What you are talking of above is what I have come to know as "the milk" not "the meat".

If you have the time, please consider this, as well, the difference between knowing all that can be known ~about~ God (on the one hand), and simply ~knowing~ Him (on the other) because, while knowing as much as we can about Him is incredibly important, the key to literally everything is found in knowing Him (personally), instead. Or as the Lord Jesus said,

John 17
3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Ironically - that is exactly what I am speaking to. One cannot - simply cannot KNOW GOD - through the medium of prophets, apostles, theologians, evangelists, apologists, pastors and billons of the members of laity.

 

[Anchorite]

You are assuming a data drop of this magnitude is what I am suggesting. The Lake is for exploring -


Truth previously hidden


No. The pattern has been for the Christian Church to continue delivering the information they have to those who are unable or unwilling to go further than the basics that the faith demand.

Was it really "the very best he had to offer"? Why would someone think that? How do they know that is true. There is no withholding going forward at all. Rather there is a resistance to knowing more - as you wrote "why bother?" - that is the general attitude. "Why bother" is not GOD withholding anything. "Why bother" is the one asking, doing the withholding - or more specifically the resisting.

Naturally enough, GOD gives to those who seek not to those who say "why bother seeking".

Have you exhausted the information already provided in the Bible?

Have you perfected the application of the revealed truths?

Are you so advanced in spirituality that you need to “go further than the basics that the faith demand”?

How can you explore a lake (unrecorded teachings of Christ) that is theoretically valid, but non-existent in tangible form?

What method do you have to access the unrecorded teachings of Christ?

Many cults have arisen that claim to supposedly have additional, non-biblical information about Christ.

Many books have been published that claim to contain words that came directly from Jesus.

 

[Anchorite]

I have long been there and done that and have since moved into the depths and discovered a whole other "world" to explore. One cannot - simply cannot KNOW GOD - through the medium of prophets, apostles, theologians, evangelists, apologists, pastors and billons of the members of laity.

Ephesians 4

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.

 

[Eternal Entity]

Have you exhausted the information already provided in the Bible?

Have you perfected the application of the revealed truths?

Are you so advanced in spirituality that you need to “go further than the basics that the faith demand”?

How can you explore a lake (unrecorded teachings of Christ) that is theoretically valid, but non-existent in tangible form?

What method do you have to access the unrecorded teachings of Christ?

Many cults have arisen that claim to supposedly have additional, non-biblical information about Christ.

Many books have been published that claim to contain words that came directly from Jesus.

The Father and I