"THE WORDS...ARE SPIRIT" version of understanding scripture.

[ScottA]

Most look to the written word of God as being literary (language-based), and that it is. But more importantly--it's not--but is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.​

As "language"--the words are "confused" by God: Genesis 11:7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”​

​

That is "ALL" language: Genesis 11:9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.​

Most commonly, however, those who study the word of God, study with the idea that the words are literary and the correct understanding of the words is based on language and culture during the time and place they were written, as being the best interpretation, even perfect and exact. From which comes the term: exegesis.

ex·e·ge·sis​

/ˌeksəˈjēsəs/​

​

noun​

noun: exegesis; plural noun: exegeses​

1. critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.

...Which is mostly good--to a point. In fact, I recommend it--at least as a start just after simply reading the scriptures. My wife and I are actually currently participating a group study--although I myself have been doing that sort of study for years--and it's good. The problem is, it should be introduced as elementary, and yet it is not. Instead, it is considered the way of digging deeper into the meaning of scripture--the ultimate, and the way of seminaries and the teachings of men.

Again--that is all mostly good. But where that leaves us is back in that time--two or more thousand years ago. Two thousand minimum. Which was indeed a great time in human history--but these times were to be "greater" (John 14:12). Throughout history God has been advancing the knowledge of men, and where Jesus and the apostles left off two thousand years ago with much of scripture, only ended with an introduction to the words being spirit (as Jesus said). And Paul--oh my gosh, Paul--he even said he was determined to "press on" (Philippians 3:12) "leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits" (Hebrews 6:1-3). Are you getting this? He--even then considered those seemingly language and culture-based teachings of Christ to be "elementary."

So, what--we should forever go back and immerse ourselves in "confusion" after picking up where they left off--not pressing on into that "greater" spiritual calling and instruction...as if the Spirit were not greater than what we were told was elementary?

How do we press on into that greater spiritual understanding? Follow the instruction they gave us. Actually press on!

1. Understand that the words of scripture (all language) has been confused.
2. Understand rather that the words are spirit and must be spiritually discerned.
3. Understand that only some people, by the gifts of the Spirit, are given to knowledge and interpretation--yes, among many who are false.
4. Understand that if we hinder the Spirit, we will answer to God for doing so.
5. Test every spirit--not by men's understanding, but by the Spirit. Which means being silent in church just as the bride of Christ (men and women alike) are instructed, that only the Spirit is heard.
6. Build on that--the means by which Jesus said He would build His church--with only that which comes from our Father in heaven, in spirit (as Jesus explained was how Peter knew He was the Christ).
7. "He who has an ear let him hear."

 

[ScottA]

A working and reliable example of what was really to be following the scriptures in the form of confused language is given by Jesus when He explained how His church would actually be built. His word on the matter going forward, as to be--as He told Peter, "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church (Matthew 16: 17-18).

Which continued at first--completely contrary to the practice of exegesis. This too is written, when in the gospels the apostles quoted the psalms of David's suffering as it were also about the suffering of Jesus. Which, according to the common practice of exegesis would be a violation of context. After all, who among us would claim the suffering of a biblical character recorded in the scriptures, was also about someone who came along a thousand years later and seemed to suffer in like manner? But there it is in the scriptures.

What has happened in the church, that the very thing that Jesus said would be, now breaks the rules of modern exegesis taught by most in the church today?

Peter revealed that too (by the Spirit--just as Jesus said), saying, "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction (2 Peter 2:1). And we know who they are...for "by their fruits you will know them" (Matthew 7:20). For they speak against all these things.

 

[ScottA]

A good question to ask regarding every word come down from heaven from the Word, showing "the words are Spirit", is:

Are the scriptures the revelation of Jesus Christ, or are they simply howto words about living in this world? In other words, even if "bread" in the scriptures sometimes seems to be just about bread--is it ever really only about bread, as if the world were not passing away and we should settle in to the ways of this world and make sure we have bread for our bellies?

I know, I know--even Jesus got hungry and ate bread! Ah, but was that the only message? Hardly!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A good question to ask regarding every word come down from heaven from the Word, showing "the words are Spirit", is:

Are the scriptures the revelation of Jesus Christ, or are they simply howto words about living in this world? In other words, even if "bread" in the scriptures sometimes seems to be just about bread--is it ever really only about bread, as if the world were not passing away and we should settle in to the ways of this world and make sure we have bread for our bellies?

I know, I know--even Jesus got hungry and ate bread! Ah, but was that the only message? Hardly!

And thus is revealed the successor to Jim Jones, David Koresh, Mary Baker Eddy, Charles t. Russel, and Jospeh Smith.

But let me give you a chance to answer a question honesltly and sincerely for tI ask it sincerely.

When your "higher spiritual meaning", differs from another who received a "higher spiritual meaning" and you both say you got it from God and both can't be true, who is irght or are both you wrong.

 

[ScottA]

When your "higher spiritual meaning", differs from another who received a "higher spiritual meaning" and you both say you got it from God and both can't be true, who is irght or are both you wrong.

The one truly sent by God, or whom God is speaking through. Of which there are many who are false.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The one truly sent by God, or whom God is speaking through. Of which there are many who are false.

Nice non answer. If your higher spiritual meaning contradicts another's higher spiritual meaning are you right or wrong? How does one determine, what basis do you declare someone else's "higher spiritual meaning" right or wrong?

afoolish example. You are given a higher spiritual meaning that pre marital sex is okay. Another is given a higher spiritual meaning that it is wrong. Who i s right and why?

 

[Wrangler]

it is. But more importantly--it's not

I almost didn’t see the contradiction there.

Nice non answer.

His answer, like the premise of the thread, is circular.
1. Words are spiritual.
2. How do you know
3. See P1.

After being resurrected, Jesus didn’t grill spiritual fish for his friends on the beach at Galilee.

 

[ScottA]

Nice non answer. If your higher spiritual meaning contradicts another's higher spiritual meaning are you right or wrong? How does one determine, what basis do you declare someone else's "higher spiritual meaning" right or wrong?

afoolish example. You are given a higher spiritual meaning that pre marital sex is okay. Another is given a higher spiritual meaning that it is wrong. Who i s right and why?

You sound like a jealous, vindictive, teenager. But that is also the same argument given by atheists, saying: "What proof do you have?"

 

[ScottA]

I almost didn’t see the contradiction there.

Yes...that is the contradiction that separates--that separates the written word to be falsely represented by those who see the scriptures as only literary, and those who see and hear the greater message of what the Spirit says. That is indeed the cause of much misunderstanding and disagreement here.

If one argues from the literary camp, the scriptures are worldly, and maybe moral and good, and Jesus is just a good teacher; and in the church, those whose aspirations are "glorified flesh bodies", etc. But from the camp of those who have and ear and hear what the Spirit says, comes the greater truth from God--that "all truth" promised by Christ. Each a very different position, one that is prone to stifle the Spirit, and the other that is overflowing with the Spirit, overflowing beyond the pail of this world.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes...that is the contradiction that separates

I'll go ahead and return you to ignore.

 

[doctrox]

When your "higher spiritual meaning", differs from another who received a "higher spiritual meaning" and you both say you got it from God and both can't be true, who is irght or are both you wrong.

The answer to that dilemma is, of course, found in scripture.

The one truly sent by God, or whom God is speaking through. Of which there are many who are false.

That sidesteps the issue.

So, what does scripture tell us about the apparent dilemma of two people, both claiming "they got it from God," but what one "got" is totally different from what the other "got"?

"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face. Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet, I, the Lord, will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols." - Ezekiel 14:3-4

When Ezekiel says that when the people "cometh to the prophet" to seek the will of the Lord, they are inquiring of God through the authority of "the prophet" - who the New Testament tells us is JESUS CHRIST. For example, in the book of John we learn that when Jesus preached, the people said "Of a truth, this is the prophet." (John 7:40) Peter also said that Jesus fulfilled the prediction of a great prophet that would arise in Israel when he stated "A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you...." (Acts 7:37) There are many Scriptural texts proving that Jesus is "the prophet."

Ezekiel is told by the Lord that when "every man" comes to him to seek his will and they "setteth up idols" in their hearts, God will answer them "according to the multitude of his idols" (Ezekiel 14:3-4). First we need to see that an "idol" that is in the heart can be anything that comes between the believer and God. Because idolatry is a concept (as opposed to a statue that one worships), we must realize that an idol can be any thought, belief, bible version, or even doctrine that we want to believe.

When God says he will answer the inquirer "according to" the idol, he is saying he will not tear down the false beliefs that exist in the hearts of the believers. Remember, the text says the believers are the ones that have "set up their idols in their heart" (Ezekiel 14:3) Thus, the Lord plainly states that he will give you the answer you've already decided you want!

This is a gigantic truth, and it is another area concerning God's attributes that is commonly distorted by the false teachers. Pastors and Christian writers commonly tell us that God never deceives people - yet the Scriptures tell us that God allows us to continue in the deceptions that we've ensnared ourselves in. The Bible says "the Lord knoweth how to...reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (2 Peter 2:9).

In fact, the Apostle Paul plainly says that God will actually initiate deception when he writes that "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 The. 2:11,10).

And it is also God who chooses their delusions! "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not" (Isaiah 66:4).

What we're seeing here should be frightening, because it is a scriptural proof text that indicates if we are not completely sold out to hearing the truth - regardless of how unsavory the truth may be - we are subject to being deceived. Furthermore, the very fact that this principle exists is tantamount to a prediction that there will be believers that think they are truly seeking the truth, but in actuality they have placed their idolatrous doctrines in their hearts, and are going before the LORD to ask him to validate the "idol" that is their false interpretation.

In the passage in Ezekiel, the Lord also refers to "the stumblingblock of their iniquity" as another obstacle to receiving the truth when seeking God. The text indicates that when the believer "putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face" when he seeks the Lord on a matter, this too will cause the Lord to "set my face against that man...." (Ezekiel 14:8).

This aspect of the prophecy informs us that our iniquity produces a "stumblingblock." Although we see variations on the term with the Scriptures sometimes calling it a "stumblingstone," the idiom is not used much in the modern English vernacular. It might be useful to state that if we think of walking forward and tripping over a large stone that we did not see, we have a valid picture of what is being said. For example, I live out in the country where it is completely pitch black at night. If I am walking around in total darkness and can't see a significant stone in my path, I'm likely to fall over it and be injured.

A stumblingblock is not intrinsically evil as the Scriptures state that Christ was to "the Jews a stumblingblock, and a rock of offense...." (1 Cor. 1:23) What we see in this amazing prophecy from Ezekiel is that it is our sin that keeps us from seeing things that we need to see. To put it another way, our iniquity is directly proportional to our spiritual blindness, and God will not just override that sin and force us to hear his truth. In order to get past this vulnerable condition, we must consistently demonstrate our willingness to receive the truth - in short, we must LOVE the TRUTH.

JESUS CHRIST told us that HE is the truth - "I am the way, the truth, and the life." (John 14:6) If we genuinely love the truth, then we will find it. Indeed, the very fact that there exists a multiplicity of "Christian traditions" is an indicator that something is dreadfully wrong. Thus, the idea that 'we can agree to disagree' is completely unscriptural on any matter concerning the faith. There is only one truth, and everything else is a lie.

This is an extraordinary perspective and it cuts like the proverbial two-edged sword. The idea of stumblingblocks is essentially synonymous with the New Testament concept of Strongholds. This is another way of describing a stumblingblock. A "Stronghold" is a place where someone or something may be defended. This term is commonly used as a military concept in the context of warfare - and the Bible frequently speaks of the war that is continuously occurring in the realm of the Spirit. In I Corinthians, we see,

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing [read idol] that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ...." (2 Cor. 10:3-5)

What this verse is so eloquently teaching us is that we are the ones that pull down the "Strongholds." We are the ones that seek out the "Stumblingblocks" in order achieve the victory in Christ. And we do these things, not in our power, but "through God" as we become "sanctified through the truth" (John 17:19). To be sanctified means to be set apart for glory, but for those that are not sanctified of God, "...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...." (Romans 1:18)

To put this into perspective, whenever we fail to fully embrace the truth, we allow the Devil to establish a Spiritual Stronghold that enters into our lives - and this is something that can eventually destroy us. When we refuse to see the truth that God wants us to see, that Stronghold becomes a Stumblingblock that causes us to stumble and fall further and further away from the will of the LORD. As this process continues, we are not abiding in the truth, and we then become subject to the wrath of God which is directed to all that "hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Romans 1:18). Essentially, when we say that we love him, and do not love the truth, we have become liars because he IS the truth.

Through Ezekiel, God says that he has allowed this situation to progress because "they are all estranged from me through their idols" (Ezekiel 14:5). God desires our fellowship - a fellowship that is true and unfeigned - not simply words, but deeds. God will hold all accountable, and the only way to ensure that we know him is to be found in him - in righteousness and in truth. "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? For the time is come that the judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:18,17)

-- brother James

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You sound like a jealous, vindictive, teenager. But that is also the same argument given by atheists, saying: "What proof do you have?"

You are confusing requests. I simply asked if you and another both receive what they believe is a "higher spiritual meaning" and you contradict each other, who is right? I gave an example for you to try to show what your meanings are.

Even teh Apostle Paul proved his bonafides to the church. You appear to shun the very thing Paul did. Even jesus proved Himself to Israel.

If one argues from the literary camp, the scriptures are worldly, and maybe moral and good, and Jesus is just a good teacher; and in the church, those whose aspirations are "glorified flesh bodies", etc. But from the camp of those who have and ear and hear what the Spirit says, comes the greater truth from God--that "all truth" promised by Christ. Each a very different position, one that is prone to stifle the Spirit, and the other that is overflowing with the Spirit, overflowing beyond the pail of this world.

And for any many that would be a falsehood. One who is overflowing with teh spirit, will not create new doctrtine out of whole cloth as you say happens. they will show all the fruit of the spirit and teach from mastering the Scriptures which as Paul said:

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and also:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

King James Version

​

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

But you listen to voices that could very well be:

Isaiah 8:19
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

King James Version

​

12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You are not an apostle, expanding the foundation of the church. That foundation was laid in the first century. we just raise the building called the church built upon that foundation.

would you like a list of the legions of false doctrines created by those who just like you have declared they received "higher spiritual meaning"?

 

[ScottA]

You are confusing requests. I simply asked if you and another both receive what they believe is a "higher spiritual meaning" and you contradict each other, who is right? I gave an example for you to try to show what your meanings are.

Even teh Apostle Paul proved his bonafides to the church. You appear to shun the very thing Paul did. Even jesus proved Himself to Israel.

And for any many that would be a falsehood. One who is overflowing with teh spirit, will not create new doctrtine out of whole cloth as you say happens. they will show all the fruit of the spirit and teach from mastering the Scriptures which as Paul said:

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and also:

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

​

King James Version​

​

​

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

But you listen to voices that could very well be:

Isaiah 8:19
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

2 Corinthians 11:12-15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You are not an apostle, expanding the foundation of the church. That foundation was laid in the first century. we just raise the building called the church built upon that foundation.

would you like a list of the legions of false doctrines created by those who just like you have declared they received "higher spiritual meaning"?

You apparently don't know what "approved unto God" means.

Meanwhile you left out the "finish" of the Church, meaning you are stuck in the building phase--ranting false accusations and scoffings at that part you show yourself not qualified to even understand what is written of what comes next.

And you made so many mistakes and false assumptions I'll have to address them one at a time. Maybe later.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You apparently don't know what "approved unto God" means.

Meanwhile you left out the "finish" of the Church, meaning you are stuck in the building phase--ranting false accusations and scoffings at that part you show yourself not qualified to even understand what is written of what comes next.

And you made so many mistakes and false assumptions I'll have to address them one at a time. Maybe later.

The church is far from being finished. We are still building, sorry.

Oh I understand what is written and what comes next according to God's Word, not according to your "higher spiritual meanings".

Not only do I know what approved unto God means, as a child of God I am approved!

 

[ShineTheLight]

The church is far from being finished. We are still building, sorry.

Oh I understand what is written and what comes next according to God's Word, not according to your "higher spiritual meanings".

Not only do I know what approved unto God means, as a child of God I am approved!

You know and are "approved". Really?