The works of faith

[Prentis]

Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah was also a made a heir of the righteousness which is by faith... It is most interesting to see how this happened. He was warned, and had faith, so he was moved with fear, and built an ark. Here we see the results of faith; the works of faith.

And so we, if we claim to be justified by faith, must then have the same kind of faith. The process is the same for us. We are provided with a better ark, Christ! The work of faith for us is to enter INTO Christ, and abide there until the judgement (flood) is passed. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah was also a made a heir of the righteousness which is by faith... It is most interesting to see how this happened. He was warned, and had faith, so he was moved with fear, and built an ark. Here we see the results of faith; the works of faith.

And so we, if we claim to be justified by faith, must then have the same kind of faith. The process is the same for us. We are provided with a better ark, Christ! The work of faith for us is to enter INTO Christ, and abide there until the judgement (flood) is passed. :)

Very good! Acting by faith is what saves us. Phinehas acted in faith when he slew the transgressors. He pleased God. ...which is the greatest thing we mortals can do! :)

 

[Prentis]

Very good! Acting by faith is what saves us. Phinehas acted in faith when he slew the transgressors. He pleased God. ...which is the greatest thing we mortals can do! :)

Yes! :)

And the thing is, faith doesn't look the same to human eyes from one manifestation of it to another... So it can't be mimicked. Two are in a field, one is taken. Which is why it is impossible for us to compare ourselves to someone who God justified, and if the comparison looks favorable in our eyes, justify ourselves.

In that very doing, justifying ourselves by comparing to others (or whatever means), we stop running the race and we stop walking by faith.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

If we justify ourselves, we fall from grace. We are no longer advancing by faith, relying on God, but we are relying on our own sight and judgment. And so the moment we declare ourselves to have arrived... We stop moving towards our destination. The enemy loves persuading men that they should justify themselves, and are justified, before the Lord declares it.

So whether it be by the law (circumcision, etc) or by our 'beliefs' (which is but another law), when we justify ourselves, we fall from grace, and are no longer walking by faith.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes! :)

And the thing is, faith doesn't look the same to human eyes from one manifestation of it to another... So it can't be mimicked. Two are in a field, one is taken. Which is why it is impossible for us to compare ourselves to someone who God justified, and if the comparison looks favorable in our eyes, justify ourselves.

In that very doing, justifying ourselves by comparing to others (or whatever means), we stop running the race and we stop walking by faith.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

If we justify ourselves, we fall from grace. We are no longer advancing by faith, relying on God, but we are relying on our own sight and judgment. And so the moment we declare ourselves to have arrived... We stop moving towards our destination. The enemy loves persuading men that they should justify themselves, and are justified, before the Lord declares it.

So whether it be by the law (circumcision, etc) or by our 'beliefs' (which is but another law), when we justify ourselves, we fall from grace, and are no longer walking by faith.

Exactly! Someone who has made himself comfortable does not need the Comforter sent to him.

 

[Axehead]

Great thread, brothers.

Abiding in Him and walking in the Spirit is a work of faith.

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (another work of faith).

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; (yet another one)

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: (And another one)

Men's doctrines have blinded their followers from what the Word is saying.

Amazing that people have been brainwashed into thinking that all you do is mentally ascent to the fact that Jesus died for you.

"Rom_10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (This verse is not all there is to it. It is just the opportunity to walk with Christ).

Axehead

 

[Prentis]

Amen!! Good posts brothers!


The interesting thing we see with this is that faith cannot be made into an ethic, a rule... We cannot say 'He had faith and so do I, so I am justified.' Only makes this judgment, as we see the example of those who persevered and followed and yet did not justify themselves... And we see the faith that pleased God manifest itself in so many ways. The Pharisees fell into this error, because the followed the commands God had given, but in such a way as to justify themselves. 'As they obeyed so have we, and so as they were then justified so are we.' But now man is justifying and deciding what measure of faith pleases God.

The modern evangelical makes the same error. 'They believed, and God justified them, and so I believe, and am justified'. They lose sight of the fact that God accepted the faith of these men and accounted it as righteousness to them. Now men are counting it as righteousness for themselves.

When one tactic fails, the devil adjusts; what once looked legalistic and religious, going back to the law (circumcision and the like), now looks liberal and based on no outward manifestation (justifying oneself by their own beliefs). Interestingly, it is the same error, to make the declaration of ourselves by what we see by our sight and the standard we set before us. Both miss the purpose of God that man would walk by faith...

To justify oneself in this way is actually an act of rebellion. It is to attempt to bind God to a law, so that we would not have to answer to him... If he asks us something, we defer him to the law that is above him. Men actually try to get away with what they are this way. But God is not bound to law, rather the law is there because God is always the same, and the law is a manifestation of who he is. God does what he wants, He is the one who quantifies and decides what pleases him. The standard is to please him by faith. Who are we that we would judge our faith is sufficient and pleasing to God? Who are we to decide when God is pleased?

Exactly! Someone who has made himself comfortable does not need the Comforter sent to him.

Yes! We must wait for God to comfort us and not comfort ourselves.... We must wait for God to approve us and not approve ourselves.... :) But men seldom do this, because it requires faith that indeed, God will intervene.

 

[Axehead]

We hold up OUR interpretation of His Law to Him and presume to tell Him that we are OK. (Approve ourselves).

But, if we look at the full counsel of God, we know that we are only Ok if we endure to the end.

One must finish his course to know whether he has kept the faith or not. Paul's 3 "I haves".
2Ti_4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Not only did they say they "See", but they said they were SAFE, too (We have Abraham as our Father, we have Calvin as our father, Arminius as our father, John McArthur as our father, John Gill as our father,,,plug in the man whose teachings you live by).

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (What? My confession does not make me SAFE?)

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Shall be! (You're not there, yet!)

Axehead

 

[justaname]

Romans 10​

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, ​

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; ​

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ​

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”​

My confidence in the word of God is not a false confidence, nor is it self appointed righteousness. My declaration of salvation has been given by Him; the decree has gone out and will not return void!​

Romans 3​

Justification by Faith​

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,​

22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;​

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,​

24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;​

25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;​

26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.​

Justification comes from God and what He does through us, not what we must do now that we believe. ​

Romans 4​

22Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. ​

23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, ​

24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, ​

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.​

Romans 5​

Results of Justification​

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,​

2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.​

3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; ​

4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;​

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5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.​

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6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.​

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7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.​

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8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

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9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.​

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Most of what you are attempting to convey seems to directly conflict with scripture. Can you please further explain or maybe address this in simpler terms so I may have a better understanding of what you are attempting to convey?​

 

[Prentis]

Romans 10​

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, ​

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; ​

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ​

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”​

My confidence in the word of God is not a false confidence, nor is it self appointed righteousness. My declaration of salvation has been given by Him; the decree has gone out and will not return void!​

Justification by Faith​

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,​

22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;​

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,​

24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;​

25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;​

26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.​

Justification comes from God and what He does through us, not what we must do now that we believe. ​

Do I sense an insecurity and a need to defend oneself? ;)

The fruit of true faith is simply the result and proof of faith... We can claim true faith all we want, but if the light does not reveal it to be so, our confessions mean nothing. What we must do now that we believe does matter; it reveals if we really do believe.

Noah can claim to believe what was spoken to him all he wants, if he doesn't build the ark....

 

[justaname]

I am the one claiming to have no insecurities because I believe. My salvation is reliant on the word of God being faithful and true and Him doing His work through me as scripture promises. If I were to listen blindly to what you are saying I would think Noah might not build the ark. I would think God is reliant on man and not the latter.

 

[JohnnyB]

I am the one claiming to have no insecurities because I believe. My salvation is reliant on the word of God being faithful and true and Him doing His work through me as scripture promises. If I were to listen blindly to what you are saying I would think Noah might not build the ark. I would think God is reliant on man and not the latter.

Did God rely on Noah to build the ark? Afterall, Noah could have chosen to disobey. He chose to do the work, by faith, and God justified him.

James said, was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? His faith and actions were working together, we are not justified by faith alone.

James also said, you BELIEVE there is only one God, good, even demons believe that and shudder. Belief alone doesn't justify you, as other's have pointed out.

If all we need to do is believe, someone should have let Paul know. ;)

We make up the body of Christ, if God doesn't rely on the body of Christ, then who? God needs the the Body to act in faith.

 

[justaname]

Johnny,

Psalms 8

4 What is man that You take thought of him,​

And the son of man that You care for him? ​

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, ​

And You crown him with glory and majesty! ​

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; ​

God does not need anything He is self sufficient.
Notice the Psalmist speaks of what God does for man and not the latter.
In Noah's case, do you think an all knowing all powerful God would have chosen someone who was willing to disobey to build the ark?

Ephesians 2

10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

This is directed to believers in Christ. Notice it says we are His workmanship, not a workmanship of our own. When speaking of good works the word also teaches that God prepared them so that we would walk in them.
To think of us transforming into the image of Christ, it is God working in us.

I am not against stirring each other up. I simply want to point out we not fear and can have confidence that God will complete the work He started in us.


Prentis said,
Yes! We must wait for God to comfort us and not comfort ourselves.... We must wait for God to approve us and not approve ourselves.... :) But men seldom do this, because it requires faith that indeed, God will intervene.

My reply is we have the Holy Spirit and God's word for comfort. We only need to believe God does what He says. God's approval is given upon belief in His Son. You might do well to take heed to what Jesus teaches.

John 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6:37

37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.​

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38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.​

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39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.​

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40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

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[Prentis]

The Greek word in John 6:29 is eis, which actually means to believe INTO Jesus.

It doesn't matter if someone is confident in their own belief, self confidence is not what God is looking for. Jesus says if we are the sons of Abraham we will do the works of Abraham... And Paul says those who are of faith are the sons of Abraham. That is, those who (as Jesus says) do the works of Abraham by faith are his children.

The Jews were convinced that because of their genealogy they were the sons of Abraham, accepted of God. Today, in Christendom, men are convinced that they are the sons of Abraham because they adhere to certain beliefs... The error is the same. It is man justifying themselves.

Rather by faith we must walk in obedience and do the works of faith, and then God will see and judge, and he will decide whether we are worthy to be counted among God's people.


1Th_2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2Th_1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

If we judge ourselves worthy we are jumping ahead of God, and losing the humility of the servant. The man of faith needs not justify himself, because he trusts that if it be right, God will justify him. The man of faith does not need to defend his perceived security.... Because his only security is in abiding, and so he doesn't defend it, but abides.

Jesus said 'when you have done all those things that are commanded you, say 'we are unprofitable servants, we only did what was our duty to do'. Christendom teaches the exact opposite; to justify oneself... And it teaches we don't even have to do what is our duty to do, the commands, and we can still justify ourselves... The error is double.

 

[justaname]

2 Thess 1:5
2Th_1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
The word in these verses "count" can also be translated "make"

The 1Thess verse you should check your context. Paul is speaking of what he did. Actually if you look here you will see that Paul makes a request and not a demand.

Ephesians 4:1

1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,

There is nothing you can do to justify yourself, Jesus Christ is the just and justifier. My confidence does not depend on what I do, rather what God did through Jesus Christ.
Please use this verse and tell me exactly what must be done by you.
John 6
37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

 

[JohnnyB]

The Greek word in John 6:29 is eis, which actually means to believe INTO Jesus.

It doesn't matter if someone is confident in their own belief, self confidence is not what God is looking for. Jesus says if we are the sons of Abraham we will do the works of Abraham... And Paul says those who are of faith are the sons of Abraham. That is, those who (as Jesus says) do the works of Abraham by faith are his children.

The Jews were convinced that because of their genealogy they were the sons of Abraham, accepted of God. Today, in Christendom, men are convinced that they are the sons of Abraham because they adhere to certain beliefs... The error is the same. It is man justifying themselves.

Rather by faith we must walk in obedience and do the works of faith, and then God will see and judge, and he will decide whether we are worthy to be counted among God's people.


1Th_2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2Th_1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

If we judge ourselves worthy we are jumping ahead of God, and losing the humility of the servant. The man of faith needs not justify himself, because he trusts that if it be right, God will justify him. The man of faith does not need to defend his perceived security.... Because his only security is in abiding, and so he doesn't defend it, but abides.

Jesus said 'when you have done all those things that are commanded you, say 'we are unprofitable servants, we only did what was our duty to do'. Christendom teaches the exact opposite; to justify oneself... And it teaches we don't even have to do what is our duty to do, the commands, and we can still justify ourselves... The error is double.

Amen Prentis!

It was self justification that displaced Adam and Eve from the garden and got Jesus hung on a cross. We justify ourselves when we declare ourselves saved.

Faithfulness is faith IN ACTION.

 

[justaname]

Amen Prentis!

It was self justification that displaced Adam and Eve from the garden and got Jesus hung on a cross. We justify ourselves when we declare ourselves saved.

Faithfulness is faith IN ACTION.

Romans 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

I am not justifying myself by believing what the scriptures teach.

 

[JohnnyB]

Romans 5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

I am not justifying myself by believing what the scriptures teach.

Faith goes beyond just believing.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi justaname,

Justification comes from God and what He does through us, not what we must do now that we believe.

I think I understand what you're saying. :)

In fact, reading all these references to self-justification and self-righteousness I'm getting the impression there is a serious issue with self-consciousness here, which if everyone stopped talking as if there is a problem with everyone else, and just carried on walking with God in the Spirit, would vanish.

We justify ourselves when we declare ourselves saved.

Hi Johnny,

There is an important difference between declaring oneself saved before the race has been completed, and, declaring one's faith in Christ Jesus for one's salvation. It is absolutely essential that each believer can say to someone else, 'I have trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation'. That is a legitimate testimony. And having so made that testimony, the onus is on the believer to obey God, so that other's will believe what he said about himself. (There's a lot more to obeying God than just 'doing' certain actions, as I hope you know. And it's the work which God does in the believer during his process of obeying, that changes the believer into a believable witness to the truth of the gospel, and the life of Christ.)

 

[justaname]

faith

■ noun​

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1 complete trust or confidence.​

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2 strong belief in a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.​

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▶ a particular religion.​

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– origin Middle English: from Old French feid, from Latin fides.​

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faithful

■ adjective​

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1 remaining loyal and steadfast.​

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▶ remaining sexually loyal to a lover or spouse.​

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2 true to the facts or the original.​

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■ noun (the faithful) those who are faithful to a particular religion or political party.​

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– derivatives faithfulness noun​

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[JohnnyB]

Hi justaname,




I think I understand what you're saying. :)

In fact, reading all these references to self-justification and self-righteousness I'm getting the impression there is a serious issue with self-consciousness here, which if everyone stopped talking as if there is a problem with everyone else, and just carried on walking with God in the Spirit, would vanish.



Hi Johnny,

There is an important difference between declaring oneself saved before the race has been completed, and, declaring one's faith in Christ Jesus for one's salvation. It is absolutely essential that each believer can say to someone else, 'I have trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation'. That is a legitimate testimony. And having so made that testimony, the onus is on the believer to obey God, so that other's will believe what he said about himself. (There's a lot more to obeying God than just 'doing' certain actions, as I hope you know. And it's the work which God does in the believer during his process of obeying, that changes the believer into a believable witness to the truth of the gospel, and the life of Christ.)

I agree, the obedience part is what some would like to compromise, though. The equation believe=saved does not add up.

Should we also compromise and let the deception continue?