Its just people believing what makes them feel good and rejecting what doesn't,as you can see some of them go to great lengths...they eagerly accept the good at face value needing no translation while the bad neds to be constantly translated to suit their desires...its just people being people realy.
There is no eternal punishment!
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Its just people believing what makes them feel good and rejecting what doesn't,as you can see some of them go to great lengths...they eagerly accept the good at face value needing no translation while the bad neds to be constantly translated to suit their desires...its just people being people realy.
hmmmm. We are called to preach the ''good news" (gospel). We are called to demonstrate the love of God to the world, as He was in Christ reconciling the world to HImself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,,as though God were pleading through us..." be reconciled to God" . (paraphrased..2Cor.5:19).
I can assure you that the heart responds better to God's kindness than His wrath. It is His goodness that leads us to repentance. There are those who try to threaten or scare people to get them to submit to God. This is not our mandate. A bended reed He will not break...a smoldering wick He will not snuff out. This is our Savior. full of grace and truth.
Jesus said those who will believe on Him would not perish, but have everlasting life. Seems to me that everlasting life is not designated to those who will perish. (see also,John6:50,51, where one will either die or live forever.) These are also written. Your references have been explained in past posts. There is presently, torment in Hades. This is not permanent. There is weeping and gnashing of teeth. But it will end at the Lake of fire, where, unlike with the devil and his angels, mankind will die, perish, be destroyed..both body and soul (Math.10:28). To be in conscious torment forever, one must be alive forever.
Well can you post the scriptures that you think support your belief that endless torment is the punishment for not believing in/rejecting Christ so we can discuss them?
I never said that aion had different meanings concerning heaven and hell, not sure why you think so, but I assure you it didn't come from me.
If you can and care to, I would like to discuss exactly what the scriptures do indeed say concerning God's plan and the destiny of believers and non-believers, but can you try to do it with out all the sarcasm.
Sarcasm ? i have nothing but contempt for people who cannot accept the word of God...like spoiled bratty children they embrace what warms their wicked hearts and scratches their itching ears,they lull people to sleep and complacency with their worldly compromising ways and lead people to a Hell they themselves will not escape "The smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever ansd they have no rest day or night"..."shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever"....it doesn't matter what scripture i or anyone else offers,you say its not tanslated correctly or try to use anothet scripture to disprove it....your basic message is that the bible simply cannot be trusted,it is not the word of God,it contradicts itself....except for the good stuff...that is all perfectly translated in perfect harmony and can be accepted at face value...for ever and ever means for ever and ever in regard to heaven but it means temporary in regard to hell..heaven good,real and eternal...hell bad,and temporary.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
sounds like you cannot wait for Judgment Day so you can cheer on the parade of the damned as they get their just reward! So much for loving your enemies.....
What translation(s) do you consider the "word of God"?
You are speaking out of ignorance about what I believe.
A commnet of extreme ignorance combined with extreme arrogance...my enemies such as they are will not enter heaven or hell based on how i feel about them,but what they did with the salvation offered them by Jesus...i'm sure in your reprobate mind God will cut anybody you approve of a break.
Among my favorites are the collection of happy,snappy,perky and peppy bible verses to pet a puppy or snuggle with a kitten over...it feels good to feel good about feeling good and beleiving what makes you feel good feels good...it better to feel good than to feel bad,God wants us to feel good all the time regardless of how we live....sin is a naughty and negative word that has no place in our group hug society....i hear some "versions" of the bible leave it out altogether...they should dontcha think...being called sinners make happy folks feel bad
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I am starting to wonder if you are willfully full of hatred or just delusional......in all the years of posting on the internet, I have only met two other people who were so hostile. Honestly, I am becoming quite concerned for the people in your life.
As usual, your post does not even address my comment and your insight into my 'reprobate' mind is among the poorest examples I have ever witnessed. Based on your total lack of empathy and your extremely poor insight into yourself and, most certainly others, think you might be a dangerous person in real life. It is baffling for me to imagine someone with the depth of antisocial tendencies actually functioning in society.
I will pray for you and for those who come in contact with you in the real world.
Oh boy,my favorite part of dealing with a snide arrogant pompous liberal,the dime store psycho analysis...save it Dilbert and get back to your knitting.
I know I am jumping in on this wonderful edifying discussion, but I would like to reply to these references. In the first place, the passage says that smoke will rise forever. So far, we know that there will be eternal smoke. As well, those who have no rest day or night...well, I agree. At the momoent, that is true in Hades. There is torment, and there is no rest day or night. But the word 'forever' is not in that passage concerning no rest day or night. Finally, the persons in question concerning forever torment, are only three: the beast, the false prophet, and the devil. So now, in each context, there are things said and things not said.
It is typical for those who promote forever conscious human torment, to lump all these things together as though they came from one context. They do not. It is typical to read things into these passages that do not exist in them. So now, I have replied to them.
In a court of law, the jury is asked to examine evidence presented and make a decision. If guilt is determined, it needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt. I have shown reasonable doubt as to the conclusions given from these passages, as they could mean something other than what is being presented. What you have presented is mere circumstantial evidence. The passages on their own are inconclusive. However, I have presented passages which state point blank that living forever is not designated for all humankind, but merely for those who partake of the Lord by faith.
I haven't seen any rebuttle so far concerning these passages. (John6:50,51...John 3:16...Math.10:28..Gen.3:22 ). I have not ignored the evidence on the one side, but I see that there are those who choose to ignore the obvious in their quest to prove forever conscious human torment. Harsh and unkind words may feel justified but carry no weight in proving doctrine.
Before Christ it was not understood that God would put his Spirit in those who believe. The Spirit of God is what gives life. The spirit of man is the chemical reactions in his brain. The thought paterns and reactions die when the body dies. thus there is no consiousness in death for man until he is counted worthy and ressurected from the dead by the Spirit of God.
The Spirit of God full Grown in each believer is the only thing that is savable.
Just as it was for Enoch and Elijah
I can support it with scripture...but all scripture is poorly translated....remember...except for the good stuff...belive what you like its of no concern to me.
There is nothing edifying about heresy and false teaching,this generation and its millions upon millions of itching ears wants to hear what it wants to hear and it wants to hear that if one accepts Jesus then it eternal bliss,reject Jesus and you just die...the bible teaches that those who reject God get their wish and live eternaly seperated from him...in a place called Hell
More idle words, you say you can prove yet haven't posted anything but unsubstantiated baseless opinion. Have you ever consider a political career? :lol:
So you say. I was taught and believed forever conscious torment (eternal seperation), and accepted it for years. Then I began noticing a few scriptures that contradicted the doctrine. Upon further invesitgation, along with prayer and meditation, I opened up to the possibility that the doctrine was wrong. I discovered that the passages used to promote it were not as convinciong as I thought. But I see you are not willing to address the few that I gave you. This is a debate site, not just an opinion poll. Opinions do not prove a thing.
As for your comment...."all scripture is poorly translated" , how is it that one can use it then, to prove what you believe? It works both ways. I do not believe what I like. Do you think I like knowing that some loved ones of mine are possibly in torment in Hades as we speak? Do you think I like knowing that there is at least a thousand years of torment more to come until the Great White Throne judgment and the second death? There's no itching ears concerning this. That is an inappropriate accusation, my friend.
I have followed this heresy among others since coming here,every scripture offered has been dismissed as poorly translated or some other scripture has been offered that supposedly contradicts it which is realy saying the bible is not the word of God and can't be trusted...have you ever considered a TV evangelist career :lol: too bad Rev Ike isn't still around,you could work for him.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Strat.....all bark and no bite....I thought so
Go ahead and report this post to Strat - just like the one your reported the one I wrote to you yesterday. You certainly clarified your character for me, by doing so.
Go ahead and report this post to Strat - just like the one your reported the one I wrote to you yesterday. You certainly clarified your character for me, by doing so.
On the contrary, This also works both ways.
My stance is that the bible is being poorly understood. It can indeed be trusted. How are the words 'perish', die, death, destroy, live forever, have everlasting life, poorly translated? But here is what happens; those who don't like these words that contradict their understanding, simply change the meaning of some of them. But really, the typical t.v. evangelist is all about hell fire and brimstone, fear motivating the listener to run for their life from eternal torment. On average, those guys are on your side. They say that all humans live forever and have everlasting life. It is just a matter of location. They contradict John6:50,51, and John 3:16, which state that living forever is not designated for all humans. No, that has nothing to do with poor translation. It is borderline obteuse.
Yet you offer no scriptural support for your opinion. Maybe you can take some classes or seek some help from others who share the same religious paradigm so that you will be able to offer a little scriptural support and credibility to your beliefs and stop making empty arguments. :lol:
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