There is no rapture
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This is absolutely untrue, you attacked me from the very first day I sign in, it was abusive, and unnecessary. You ''suspended'' me because you could not run me off with your insults, and bullying. Tombstone, and gervais see the same thing that I encountered when arriving here.Christina;72952 said:
I asked you then as now to follow rules from day one which you refused to do from day one as now ...
RAPTURE NO RAPTUREwhy all this nonsense......While there are many points to a Pre-trib Rapture, God's Salvation:1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, There are also many good points for no Rapture. It causes arguments as everyone is right (in there mind)One things is clear though, no matter what you believe. We are not to soon be shaken in mind, have no fear, and God will deliver us from whatever bad stuff is happening. Raptured or no Rapture. Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. All means ALL!!!! You will find that those that do not believe in a rapture, seem to have a very wrong spirit about them trying to prove their point, even to the point of making fun of those that do. The focus should be on what Jesus said. Rapture or no Rapture, we ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS. That is something those that do not believe in the Rapture don't seem to come to terms with. It is not a time of testing, as we won't be subjected to anything that will test us. The blood has already done it's job. I will believe What Jesus said, How we escape, and how we are not appointed to wrath is for God to figure out. Where is the arguing? God has got our back, He promised, and I believe that. Jesus Is Lord
Once again untrue, I am completely cordial to everyone. If anyone breaks the rules it is you, and that is a shame since you seemingly have no one to be accountable to.Christina;72954 said:
Brother Mike;72956]RAPTURE NO RAPTUREwhy all this nonsense......While there are many points to a Pre-trib Rapture said:
Revelation 20.Clearly shows two things...That all believers will go through the time of beast and false prophet.That the first rising of the dead when Christ returns are those who have not worshipped the beast or the false prophet. That during this time Satan is imprisoned for a thousand years.2 Thessalonians 2 warns Christ will not return till the beast and false prophet have come. Then Christ removes the false Prophet and the beast.Then Satan released after the 1,000 year reign of Christ and those saints raised in the first resurrection. He then brings everyone from the 4 corners of the earth to surround the camp of Gods saints. God sends down fire from heaven and destroys them. Putting Satan in the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already wait.We see then the final judgement. No rapture that brings people out of the world before these things.Faithful.
I tend to agree with christina this is something that should not br made light of, the rapture is satans little mind game for christians who cant recognize antichrist from the real christ. Please people the bible tells us there are many atichrists already in the world satan is hunting his children spiritually even as we speak with the rapture lie. Jeremiah 5:26, Psalm 10:9, Psalm 17:12, Psalm 10:2 and Psalm 140:5. I say this not to degrade or to cause striff against the body of christ but to educate and make known satans false lies that are being manifested right in our own churches, its disgracefull along with all the other false man made myths satan acheives through man.
Some years ago, I worked for a large insurance company, and we had a high-rise building downtown. A very nice lady, very sweet and quite religious, was the engineering department secretary.One day, we had a tornado drill, and we all went down to the basement as per the plan. As the Loss Control dept. guy, I went up through the floors, making sure we had compliance.On the seventh floor, Betty was standing there with a stunned look on her face. She had gone to lunch late, and missed it. I said "tornado drill." She gave a huge sigh."Oh, thank the Lord. I came up here, and thought the rapture had come, and I was the only one left behind!"
First of all Let us PLEASE remember Eph 4:1-6 .2nd) I personally do not believe in the Pre-trib rapture. But I do know that one way or another God will deliver me. If he sees fit to let me struggle first then obviously I deserve it. If he does indeed deliver me before it happens then praise be God's mercy.No one should presume they are saved. No one should presume they are holy enough to excape the tribulation. Presumption is a vice opposed to Hope.
watchman;72855]I agree and disagree with you. You are right the pretrib rapture is a myth and we need to let them no this so that they can prepare themselves for the tribulation period. However the even called the rapture will take place (when the living are changed into their heavenly bodies at the return of Christ) but this happen at the post trib 2nd coming not before the tribulation starts.[/QUOTE]Hello watchmanI must agree with you. The Bible does support a rapture it uses the words used are [B]"caught up"[/B] to describe the process. [B]1 Thessolonians 4[/B] NKJV14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again said:
I'm pretty sure what you're describing is the traditionally accepted view of what the "rapture" is... although i'm not an expert by any means, so correct me if i'm wrong.
Lt. "Raptuse" literally means "to be caught up"... which was explained in an earlier post in this thread I believe.
Pretty sure this is the rapture also... although whether your talking pretrib, premillelianism, etc., i'm not sure.
[quote name='Deadwheat1224;73004]I'm pretty sure what you're describing is the traditionally accepted view of what the "rapture" is... although i'm not an expert by any means' date=' so correct me if i'm wrong.Lt. "Raptuse" literally means "to be caught up"... which was explained in an earlier post in this thread I believe. Pretty sure this is the rapture also... although whether your talking pretrib, premillelianism, etc., i'm not sure.[/QUOTE']Oh I usually read a thread till i find a post to reply to then reply then go back and read on. I decided after the last post of mine to read the whole thread through. I am saddened by the controversy.A strong impression i get is that some people are reacting firmly against the rapture thinking there is only one rapture doctrine in existence. Namely the one that has received most media attention
re-Tribulation Rapture.But this is not the only Rapture doctrine. The reason why is it called Pre- Tribulation Rapture is to distinguish it from the Post - Tribulation Rapture Doctrine. I prefer to call this rapture a Second Coming Rapture.I believe in the Rapture, but that it happens upon the return of the Messiah Jesus at the start of the 1000 year period sometimes referred to as the Sabbath millennium. So i say to those who are reacting firmly against the pre-tribulation rapture, I do not believe in a Pre- tribulation rapture. But i do believe that upon the Day of the Lord, True followers of the Messiah who are still alive and who have not been beheaded for their witness to Jesus will be caught up in the Air to meet Jesus as He returns to earth to rule in the millennial Kingdom.Blessings to all in this discussion i hope all can do their utmost to follow the Spirit and correct with love and gentleness.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
re-Tribulation Rapture.But this is not the only Rapture doctrine. The reason why is it called Pre- Tribulation Rapture is to distinguish it from the Post - Tribulation Rapture Doctrine. I prefer to call this rapture a Second Coming Rapture.I believe in the Rapture, but that it happens upon the return of the Messiah Jesus at the start of the 1000 year period sometimes referred to as the Sabbath millennium. So i say to those who are reacting firmly against the pre-tribulation rapture, I do not believe in a Pre- tribulation rapture. But i do believe that upon the Day of the Lord, True followers of the Messiah who are still alive and who have not been beheaded for their witness to Jesus will be caught up in the Air to meet Jesus as He returns to earth to rule in the millennial Kingdom.Blessings to all in this discussion i hope all can do their utmost to follow the Spirit and correct with love and gentleness.All Praise The Ancient Of DaysThank you very much adstar, I had a feeling you were more of a post-trib kind of guy. ;) Thank you also for clarifying. I think you and I will get along well.Peace to allRemember Eph 4:1-6
Oh i thought i better put up the scriptures. That lead me to believe as i do. this post is a bit long because i am quoting a fair bit of scriptures. sorry to those who do not like reading long posts. Sometimes topics need long posts.The Day of the Lord is the Day of the Messiah's Second Coming Jesus describes what will happen on that day. I will bold the words i wish you to take close note of.Matthew 2427For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.So After the tribulation Jesus will return and gather the elect to Him.There is another Rapture verse spoken of by Jesus that links the Day of the Lord to the Rapture.Luke 1729but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31" In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."When will the Son of Man (Messiah Jesus) be revealed? At His second coming the Day of the Lord. Who will take the sleeping man and the woman grinding and the man working in the field? The angels sent out in Matthew 24 verse 21It is also nice to note that Jesus revealed that this will be a world wide event because at the time of His return it will be day on one half of the world "In that day" and it will be night on the other half of the world "in that night" Also this will be an event that will take place in a twinkling of an eye Paul reveals the rapture and its timing at the Last trumpet this scripture is probably the best rapture supporting scripture in the bible:1 Corrinthians15: 49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.So from what we have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.So now we go on to the next scripture this is the last trumpet revealed in the book of Revelation:Revelation107but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets. Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:Revelation 812 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.Now This brings up the belief in two resurrections. The resurrection of the saints that happens at the second coming and the resurrection of the rest of mankind at the end of the 1000 years for the great final Judgement. The Book of Revelation chapter 20 clearly states that their will be two distinct resurrections one at the return of the Messiah Jesus and another at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus:Revelation 204 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. satanic Rebellion Crushed (1) 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The Great White Throne Judgment 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the booksAll Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar;73005]Oh I usually read a thread till i find a post to reply to then reply then go back and read on. I decided after the last post of mine to read the whole thread through. I am saddened by the controversy. A strong impression i get is that some people are reacting firmly against the rapture thinking there is only one rapture doctrine in existence. Namely the one that has received most media attention: Pre-Tribulation Rapture. But this is not the only Rapture doctrine. The reason why is it called [B]Pre[/B]- Tribulation Rapture is to distinguish it from the Post - Tribulation Rapture Doctrine. I prefer to call this rapture a Second Coming Rapture. I believe in the Rapture said:
Im refering to spiritual fighting, thats how satan works is through your thoughts and through the evil ways of the world. I do have one question for you though if you claim that to post tribulation rapture states that we will be caught up in the air when christ returns then why do you call it a rapture. Thats armageddon, the end of the 2nd earth age not rapture. Look at it this way instead of rapturing we will be entering the third and final earth age to be lived on a new heaven and earth.
Adstar;73013]Hello Gumby :) That’s the thing Gumby. The Post tribulation rapture does not say we will be escaping the persecution of the beast. It says that the rapture will happen upon the Second Coming of the Messiah Jesus. If the time of the anti-christ is soon i fully expect to be beheaded for my refusal to worship his image and receive his mark. We will be flying but only up to meet the Returning Jesus on the Day of the Lord. And we will be coming back down with Him to rule with Him on earth for 1000 years. As for fighting? May i ask what kind of combat you are referring to? As for me the combat i believe in is one that involves a battle against false thoughts that bind peoples minds in spiritual darkness. [B]2 Corinthians 10[/B]3 For though we walk in the flesh said:
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