There is no Second Coming or Rapture

[Nomad]

Yeah... I know Benoni. You truly are the quintessential heretic. Christian orthodoxy has been wrong all along on so many things. Thank God you finally came along 2000 years later to set us all straight. I hope at this point the members of this board can see the dangers of "lone-ranger-do-it-yourself Christianity."

 

[Benoni]

Heretic could you please use this word with a scripture instead of your religious bias opinion?

Actually the bible should of set is straight, Orthodoxy has always been in the Bible, it is called Babylon.


Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the
earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Yeah... I know Benoni. You truly are the quintessential heretic. Christian orthodoxy has been wrong all along on so many things. Thank God you finally came along 2000 years later to set us all straight. I hope at this point the members of this board can see the dangers of "lone-ranger-do-it-yourself Christianity."

 

[Nomad]

Goodbye Benoni. I'm shaking the dust from my feet. Go learn what that means. I pray that God will grant you repentance.

 

[Benoni]

Goodbye Nomad,

Yes, like the self-righteousness of Babylon that spreads to everyone and eventually destroys all of the selfrighteous nature of our flesh (the first Adam). From out of the fire will emerge the righteous one who is Christ in us (the last Adam).

God appointed and ordained the Babylonians to judge and punish. (Hab 1:12) O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

The Babylonians are self-righteous. (Hab 1:7) They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor.

And their self-righteousness will spread to all. (Hab 2:16) You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon was a gold cup in the LORD's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad.

 

[EAHARA]

Yeah... I know Benoni. You truly are the quintessential heretic. Christian orthodoxy has been wrong all along on so many things. Thank God you finally came along 2000 years later to set us all straight. I hope at this point the members of this board can see the dangers of "lone-ranger-do-it-yourself Christianity."

I do not say this meanly, Nomad, but I just want you to stop and think. You criticize those who engage in "lone-ranger-do-it-yourself-Christianity" but that is exactly what all of Protestantism is about. It is based in that mentality that the Reformers started in which every man was encouraged to take his own understanding of the scriptures and accept it, even if he was not trained in theology or even if he was not very intelligent. This is why we have over 33,000 denominations today.

The Bible says that the Church is the "pillar and ground of Truth" and the Lord promised to the Apostles that they would be led into all Truth. Early Christians did not decide to go their own ways and start their own "churches". They listened to the Apostles and when a severely contentious issue came up, it was settled by a council and the results were listened to and obeyed. This was how it was all through history until the Reformers decided that they were smarter than 1500 years of saints and holy men.

And just look at the results!!

If you are not part of the Church which Christ left on earth under the shepherding of St. Peter, then you are part of the very problem for which you criticize Benoni

 

[Nomad]

Early Christians did not decide to go their own ways and start their own "churches". They listened to the Apostles and when a severely contentious issue came up, it was settled by a council and the results were listened to and obeyed.

Really? This is like the pot calling the kettle black Eddie. Were the East and West in tune with the Apostles in 1054 AD? Which council settled the Great Schism? Was it the West or the East that left the one true Catholic and Apostolic Church? The West says it was the East, and the East says that it was the West. Here we are over a thousand years later and the conflict has yet to be settled by reference to Apostles or council. By your own standard you're no better than a Protestant. Actually I take that back. Protestants are justified in splitting from an apostate communion for the sake of the true Gospel unlike the East having a hissy fit over the filioque. It's true Eddie, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

1 thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Why comfort one another with these words.

The Lord will descend with a shout, The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,
The Lord will descend with a shout,


Not in secret! No where does it say in secret. Therefore Rapture is a lie! Read the Bible people!

You can't just pick and choose verses.

The whole world will see him! It's plain and simple, and plainly told in the scriptures!

 

[EAHARA]

Really? This is like the pot calling the kettle black Eddie. Were the East and West in tune with the Apostles in 1054 AD? Which council settled the Great Schism? Was it the West or the East that left the one true Catholic and Apostolic Church? The West says it was the East, and the East says that it was the West. Here we are over a thousand years later and the conflict has yet to be settled by reference to Apostles or council. By your own standard you're no better than a Protestant. Actually I take that back. Protestants are justified in splitting from an apostate communion for the sake of the true Gospel unlike the East having a hissy fit over the filioque. It's true Eddie, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The Great Schism is one of the great horrors of the Christian Faith. We see sin manifesting itself in terrible ways there.

Google the word "Photius" and see what this man did to the Church by his sinful insistence on having his own way and not submitting to the decisions of the authority over him.

The interesting part about all this is that despite their denials, the Holy Orthodox routinely went to Rome as the final arbiter of disputes within their churches. So even they recognized there was a final authority, a "top dog" so to speak.

Which, of course, answers the question of who split from whom.

Pointing to this terrible sin does not justify the sin of the Reformers at all. That is like a drunkard pointing to a whoremonger and saying "I'm better than he is."

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

Nowhere in God’s Word speaks of the "second coming" of Christ. Interesting, isn't it - how some of the major and most commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible? There is no mention whatever of such things as Christmas, Easter, the "immaculate conception" of Mary, mass, popes, church buildings, the Trinity, or - the "second coming"! The Lord's people should purge their conversation, purify their terminology, and remove from their consciousness the multitude of non-scriptural and extra-biblical expressions carried over from Mystery Babylon. We have both parroted and coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures and the wonderful plan of God.

Odd you would mention Christmas. No it was actually a Pagan holiday. It came about because in December the pagans thought the sun was getting farther away and then noticed on or about December 25 it returned closer. It was called the "birth of the sun" i.e...December 25, birth of a Son. No one really knows when Jesus was born.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Odd you would mention Christmas. No it was actually a Pagan holiday. It came about because in December the pagans thought the sun was getting farther away and then noticed on or about December 25 it returned closer. It was called the "birth of the sun" i.e...December 25, birth of a Son. No one really knows when Jesus was born.

You might not know when Christ was born but I do. You would also if you would study Scripture.

 

[andrew444]

Most of OP's original post is lifted from a tract written by J. Preston Eby. Source: http://www.theologue...eory-JPEby.html

The title of this thread is misleading and seems written for a.) shock value and b.) as a way to tear down learned doctrines and replace them with "new" ones. The OP claims that there is "no second coming or rapture", but then goes into lengthy dissertations to explain that there actually is a second coming and rapture, just not the kind that has been generally taught and assumed. Thus, the title is misleading because it is contradictory to the OP's argument.

OP presents an exegesis on Scriptures central to teachings on the Rapture, taking the stance that everything has a "hidden" or "mysterious" meaning. The rules of accurate exegesis state that any deduced esoteric meaning cannot contradict the literal surface meaning, so, for example, when Jesus says He is "coming in the clouds", one must accept the literal meaning of this statement before applying an esoteric meaning to the text. You cannot have one (spiritual) without the other (literal).

Holding to a strictly spiritual translation of Scripture while discarding all literal translations is dangerous, and Gnostic in practice.

The Bible does talk about mysteries, and there is the mystery of Christ in us. He does stand at the door and knock and He does come and dwell with believers, so there is an element of truth to what has been presented here. Proper understanding of these mysteries, however, depends on knowledge and belief in the literal text before exploring any esoteric possibilities.

The real danger in attempting to refute literal doctrines, and what the Gnostics have done, is to teach that there was no literal Jesus, no literal crucifixion, that it was all a spiritual representation of something else, thereby robbing people of their hope in the power of the Gospel, the Cross, and the blood of Jesus for the remission of sins.

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

-1 John 4:2-3