There is no spiritual gift called "the gift of tongues".
- Thread starter 2 Peter 1:10-11
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Matthew 7:13-14
The Way to Heaven and the Way to Hell
“You can enter true life only through the narrow gate. The gate to hell is very wide, and there is plenty of room on the road that leads there. Many people go that way. But the gate that opens the way to true life is narrow. And the road that leads there is hard to follow. Only a few people find it.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes the great crowd and resurrected who are not anointed will get life everlasting on earth( new earth)
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The other sheep are the great crowd, no man can number( Rev 7:9)--The little flock( Luke 12:32) are the anointed bride, numbered at 144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3)--they make up 1 flock yet 2 folds of that 1 flock( John 10:16--Other sheep( great crowd) who are not of that fold( little flock)
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Which is the narrow gate?
1 single religion, unified in love, peace and thought, a worldwide brotherhood
2) hundreds of religions with hundreds of different truths= a mass of confusion.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You obviously are not 'seeking', because you have already shown by your posts that you simply believe whatever man stands up at a pulpit and says, regardless that it is a doctrine of men, and not God's Word. You simply don't yet know the difference.
The Scripture verse does not support your theory, and you just lost your credibility as a reliable witness to the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
How did you know it was accurate unless you ALSO know the language the tongues were spoken in?
What was your comparative?
And can you discern between similar languages like Spanish and Portuguese?
Knowledge of idioms is also important in any language translation.
But most importantly, what point are you trying to make about tongues?
1 Corinthians 14:39 NIV
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy,
and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
/
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
For me, the gift of a tongue (singular) is something that can be demonstrated because I personally know a missionary who miraculously received the ability to speak a foreign language. That language is Navajo, and the gift to speak the language is permanent. It isn't something that just "comes over him" at certain times. Also, he speaks it with a terrible white-boy accent.
I do think a temporary miraculous ability to give a message in a language unknown to the speaker is something that happens. In my youth, a missionary visited our small (charismatic) church who gave a short message in a language unintelligible to me. Then one of the men in the church - a man from the island nation of Tonga - stood up and translated the message from Tongan so that we all knew what had been said. And boy did he look surprised.
And neither of those things seems to be the same as the folks who speak in "prayer language" and have no idea what they're actually saying, and no translation is ever given. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. You've pointed this verse out...
...but in the same chapter it also says:
1Co 14:28
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
It seems to be that tongues (or a gift of a tongue) is real but rare, and it seems to be primarily the province of missionaries.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Great post, thanks.
overlooking the "and let him speak to himself, and to God" statement. "in the church" being inferred.
So, "keep silent in the church" in the sense sense of not ADDRESSING the WHOLE church with a message in tongues.
But RATHER "let him speak to himself, and to God." INSTEAD.
So...
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in [addressing] the [whole] church;
and let him speak to himself, and to God [in the church].
/ @Hillsage
Interesting that those against tongues latch on to the phrase "keep silence in the church" while completely
overlooking the "and let him speak to himself, and to God" statement. "in the church" being inferred.
So, "keep silent in the church" in the sense sense of not ADDRESSING the WHOLE church with a message in tongues.
But RATHER "let him speak to himself, and to God." INSTEAD.
So...
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in [addressing] the [whole] church;
and let him speak to himself, and to God [in the church].
/ @Hillsage
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with that.
I think "tongues" get over-spiritualized. The way I read it, Paul is talking about regular old human languages. Suppose a fellow's native language is... German. We shouldn't prohibit him from praying quietly in his native language. But it seems undesirable to have him address the whole congregation in German das niemand versteht. Ja?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I would take chapter 14 in the general context of chapter 12-13 about spiritual gifts, that is, manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Which would NOT be what a natural born German (or whoever) is doing when speaking their native tongue. Not speaking in tongues for them.
/
Keiw
Well-Known Member
My post was a teaching from Jesus in every translation on earth. Yes the ones who take the lead in the religion he is with teach that without fail.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Your darkness is something else--Here is what Jesus said--Matt 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the EARTH.
Revelation 7
Easy-to-Read Version
The 144,000 People of Israel
7 After this happened I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth. The angels were holding the four winds of the earth. They were stopping the wind from blowing on the land or the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming from the east. This angel had the seal of the living God. The angel called out in a loud voice to the four angels. These were the four angels that God had given the power to hurt the earth and the sea. The angel said to them, 3 “Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees before we mark the foreheads of those who serve our God.”4 Then I heard how many people had God’s mark on their foreheads. There were 144,000. They were from every tribe of the people of Israel:
5 from the tribe of Judah 12,000
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000
from the tribe of Gad 12,000
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000
from the tribe of Levi 12,000
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000
The Great Crowd
9 Then I looked, and there was a large crowd of people. There were so many people that no one could count them all. They were from every nation, tribe, race of people, and language of the earth. They were standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They all wore white robes and had palm branches in their hands. 10 They shouted loudly, “Victory belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”11 The elders and the four living beings were there. All the angels were standing around them and the throne. The angels bowed down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God. 12 They said, “Amen! Praise, glory, wisdom, thanks, honor, power, and strength belong to our God forever and ever. Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people in white robes? Where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “You know who they are, sir.”
And the elder said, “These are the ones who have come out of the great suffering. They have washed their robes[a] with the blood of the Lamb, and they are clean and white. 15 So now these people are before the throne of God. They worship God day and night in his temple. And the one who sits on the throne will protect them. 16 They will never be hungry again. They will never be thirsty again. The sun will not hurt them. No heat will burn them. 17 The Lamb in front of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of water that give life. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Footnotes
- Revelation 7:14 washed their robes Meaning that they had believed in Jesus and had been made clean from sin by his blood sacrifice. See Rev. 5:9; Heb. 9:14; 10:14-22; Acts 22:16; 1 Jn. 1:7.
There were 144,000. They were from every tribe of the people of Israel:
2 And I heard a sound from heaven as loud as the crashing of floodwaters or claps of thunder. But it sounded like harpists playing their harps. 3 The people sang a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders. The only ones who could learn the new song were the 144,000 who had been bought from the earth. No one else could learn it.
4 These are the ones who did not do sinful things with women. They kept themselves pure. Now they follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were bought from among the people of the earth as the first to be offered to God and the Lamb. 5 They are not guilty of telling lies; they are without fault.
Friend, it is clear they were Jewish young Men and Virgins. Married men have children and therefore are not virgins --- to be part of the 144,000 one can not be married and must be Jewish.
Revelation 14
Easy-to-Read Version
God’s People Sing a New Song
14 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, who was standing on Mount Zion.[a] There were 144,000 people with him. They all had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.2 And I heard a sound from heaven as loud as the crashing of floodwaters or claps of thunder. But it sounded like harpists playing their harps. 3 The people sang a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders. The only ones who could learn the new song were the 144,000 who had been bought from the earth. No one else could learn it.
4 These are the ones who did not do sinful things with women. They kept themselves pure. Now they follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were bought from among the people of the earth as the first to be offered to God and the Lamb. 5 They are not guilty of telling lies; they are without fault.
Friend, it is clear they were Jewish young Men and Virgins. Married men have children and therefore are not virgins --- to be part of the 144,000 one can not be married and must be Jewish.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
There is symbolism in Rev 14--Like this fact--Peter is one of those anointed144,000-he was married thus not a literal virgin to woman. It actually means this-In the OT King Jehosaphat was a good king, yet he failed to take down the high places(false God worship and religious stuff) God referred to those serving those other gods-as having immoral intercourse with them( symbolism)-Thus the reference to being a virgin to women meant never had anything to do with false religions or false god worship. As you mentioned kept themselves pure of those. One of the reasons God calls Babylon the great( worldwide false religions) a harlot.
- Status
Similar threads
