There must be degrees of reward or punishment in the afterlife?

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Alan McDougall

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There must be degrees of eternal reward or punishment in the afterlife by Alan McDougall.

If there are degrees of reward in heaven, will there likewise be degrees of punishment in hell? Yes indeed. On several occasions, when speaking of eternal torment, the Bible mentions those who will suffer to a lesser or greater degree. And each time such a reference occurs, the punishment is proportionate to the opportunities missed.

Those who are blessed with numerous opportunities to obey the gospel and still reject it will receive greater condemnation than those who have little or no occasion to accept Christ. Jesus echoed this sentiment in His rebuke to the inhabitants of the cities of Bethsaida and Chorazin.

In addition, that servant, who knew his Lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, "shall be beaten with many stripes"; but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, "shall be beaten with few stripes". And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more"

“Woe unto thee, Chorazin! Woe unto thee, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes”.” However, I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the Day of Judgment than for you. And thou, Capernaum, shalt thou be exalted unto heaven? Thou shalt go down unto Hades: for if the mighty works had been done in Sodom, which was done in thee, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the Day of Judgment, than for thee (Matthew 11:21-24)

Jesus offered this censure to those Jewish cities where He had done much of His preaching, and where, on occasion, He even had performed miracles. The citizens of those towns had more opportunity to accept the Messiah than many others living around them, yet they persisted in their rejection of Him. On the other hand, the Gentile cities of Tyre and Sidon-renowned for their wickedness would receive a lesser punishment at the Day of Judgment for the simple reason that they had been deprived of direct exposure to Christ's message and miracles. All were to endure punishment, for all had rejected God's law. Nevertheless, it would not be equal punishment.

The writer of Hebrews further emphasized this point when he addressed the "sorer punishment" that was to befall those who had "trodden underfoot the Son of God" (10:29). Notice also Peter's stinging statement regarding the terrible fate that awaits unfaithful, backsliding Christians:

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first (2 Peter 2:20-21).

If Peter's statement teaches anything, it teaches degrees of punishment.
However, perhaps the most convincing argument for the concept of degrees of punishment derives from Jesus' parable of the wicked servant, as recorded in Luke 12:42-48.

In addition, the Lord said, "Who, then, is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall set over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth, I say unto you, that he will set him over all that he hath. But if that servant shall say in his heart, 'My lord
delayeth his coming,' and shall begin to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the unfaithful.

The meaning of the last section of this parable is inescapable. All the wicked will be punished; however, those limited in their opportunities to learn about Christ will be punished "with fewer stripes" than those who knew the truth and obeyed it not.

I do not believe that a non-Christian that has led a fairly good and honest life with few transgressions would be punished by God in everlasting, pain, torment of utter hopelessness and lowliness and utter hopelessness.


The terrible ultimate hell depicted in Revelations chp: 20 is for Hitler and his kind for the unspeakable evil they perpetrated in the earthly livesWe must always remember God is the "Righteous Judge" and it follows logically that his judgments will be fair and just.

Alan McDougall
 

mjrhealth

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The terrible ultimate hell depicted in Revelations chp: 20 is for Hitler and his kind for the unspeakable evil they perpetrated in the earthly livesWe must always remember God is the "Righteous Judge" and it follows logically that his judgments will be fair and just.
Grace is even there for Him. Have you not read,

Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
 

ScaliaFan

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bling said:
I see degrees of punishment, but degrees of blessings does not make sense?
sure it does

some loved Jesus more than others in this life... and so they are closer to Him in Heaven than someone who did not. Both are adequately happy, however...
 

bling

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ScaliaFan said:
sure it does

some loved Jesus more than others in this life... and so they are closer to Him in Heaven than someone who did not. Both are adequately happy, however...
I agree some go to heaven with a greater Godly type Love they grow here on earth, but that just means they Love you more than you Love them back, so who is the "loser" in that scenario?
 

shnarkle

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There must be degrees of eternal reward or punishment in the afterlife by Alan McDougall.

If there are degrees of reward in heaven, will there likewise be degrees of punishment in hell? Yes indeed. On several occasions, when speaking of eternal torment, the Bible mentions those who will suffer to a lesser or greater degree. And each time such a reference occurs, the punishment is proportionate to the opportunities missed.

Those who are blessed with numerous opportunities to obey the gospel and still reject it will receive greater condemnation than those who have little or no occasion to accept Christ. Jesus echoed this sentiment in His rebuke to the inhabitants of the cities of Bethsaida and Chorazin.

In addition, that servant, who knew his Lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, "shall be beaten with many stripes"; but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, "shall be beaten with few stripes". And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more"

“Woe unto thee, Chorazin! Woe unto thee, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes”.” However, I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the Day of Judgment than for you. And thou, Capernaum, shalt thou be exalted unto heaven? Thou shalt go down unto Hades: for if the mighty works had been done in Sodom, which was done in thee, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the Day of Judgment, than for thee (Matthew 11:21-24)

Jesus offered this censure to those Jewish cities where He had done much of His preaching, and where, on occasion, He even had performed miracles. The citizens of those towns had more opportunity to accept the Messiah than many others living around them, yet they persisted in their rejection of Him. On the other hand, the Gentile cities of Tyre and Sidon-renowned for their wickedness would receive a lesser punishment at the Day of Judgment for the simple reason that they had been deprived of direct exposure to Christ's message and miracles. All were to endure punishment, for all had rejected God's law. Nevertheless, it would not be equal punishment.

The writer of Hebrews further emphasized this point when he addressed the "sorer punishment" that was to befall those who had "trodden underfoot the Son of God" (10:29). Notice also Peter's stinging statement regarding the terrible fate that awaits unfaithful, backsliding Christians:

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first (2 Peter 2:20-21).

If Peter's statement teaches anything, it teaches degrees of punishment.
However, perhaps the most convincing argument for the concept of degrees of punishment derives from Jesus' parable of the wicked servant, as recorded in Luke 12:42-48.

In addition, the Lord said, "Who, then, is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall set over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth, I say unto you, that he will set him over all that he hath. But if that servant shall say in his heart, 'My lord
delayeth his coming,' and shall begin to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the unfaithful.

The meaning of the last section of this parable is inescapable. All the wicked will be punished; however, those limited in their opportunities to learn about Christ will be punished "with fewer stripes" than those who knew the truth and obeyed it not.

I do not believe that a non-Christian that has led a fairly good and honest life with few transgressions would be punished by God in everlasting, pain, torment of utter hopelessness and lowliness and utter hopelessness.


The terrible ultimate hell depicted in Revelations chp: 20 is for Hitler and his kind for the unspeakable evil they perpetrated in the earthly livesWe must always remember God is the "Righteous Judge" and it follows logically that his judgments will be fair and just.

Alan McDougall
It's funny how when I click on these threads, they never seem to be about what I think they're going to be about. So. what I was expecting when I saw the word "degrees" I thought of a caste system, e.g. "the meek shall inherit the earth because they are too meek to ask for more" etc. So, getting back to this topic, it seems to me that what it really means is "the bigger they come, the harder they fall". In other words, if heaven is the penthouse apartment and hell is the street. Those who fall from the penthouse, (e.g. Lucifer) fall from a pernicious height while those who fall from the second floor don't feel much of an impact; they both end up in the same place though. If you're a few floors below the penthouse, the difference in rent is astounding, so while they still have a fantastic view from a few floors below they still have to figure out how to make the kinda scratch that it's going to take to get to the penthouse. This will probably require some trips down to the street level which in and of itself kills a lot of time. The money required to get to the penthouse is in addition to the already enormous amount of money required just to keep the place you're in. You don't get to sell all your stuff and rent a shotgun shack in the woods until you can get the money together to get to the penthouse so you see those who have a lot of stuff, have to take care of a lot of stuff as well.
 

Alan McDougall

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shnarkle said:
It's funny how when I click on these threads, they never seem to be about what I think they're going to be about. So. what I was expecting when I saw the word "degrees" I thought of a caste system, e.g. "the meek shall inherit the earth because they are too meek to ask for more" etc. So, getting back to this topic, it seems to me that what it really means is "the bigger they come, the harder they fall". In other words, if heaven is the penthouse apartment and hell is the street. Those who fall from the penthouse, (e.g. Lucifer) fall from a pernicious height while those who fall from the second floor don't feel much of an impact; they both end up in the same place though. If you're a few floors below the penthouse, the difference in rent is astounding, so while they still have a fantastic view from a few floors below they still have to figure out how to make the kinda scratch that it's going to take to get to the penthouse. This will probably require some trips down to the street level which in and of itself kills a lot of time. The money required to get to the penthouse is in addition to the already enormous amount of money required just to keep the place you're in. You don't get to sell all your stuff and rent a shotgun shack in the woods until you can get the money together to get to the penthouse so you see those who have a lot of stuff, have to take care of a lot of stuff as well.

Oh man!! Go away from your bleak judgemental life and exchange it for something better!
 

shnarkle

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Oh man!! Go away from your bleak judgemental life and exchange it for something better!
While I can agree that it could be interpreted as bleak, it is certainly no where near as bleak as what you posted. For example, you suggested that the punishment depicted in Revelations is for Hitler. Really? Do you not know that the same law by which you judge others judges you, and that to fail in one point is to fail in all points of the law? Do you know that we all have the same depraved corrupt heart? Hitler was just a bit more ambitious than you are. What I was pointing to in my post is that God doesn't have to waste his effort on extra stripes for the particularly horrid souls that have fallen from grace; their fall is punishment enough. Only Lucifer could appreciate the pernicious height from which he fell. Unlike you, I'd prefer to see the gates of hell locked from the inside rather than some vengeful stingy god greedily disallowing his love to reach the far corners of infinity, stretching out for his eternal workout of wrath. A hell for those who cannot stand the idea of an all loving God, and must therefore hide in eternal darkness puts the blame justly where it belongs; on themselves. If you'd rather see a punishing god, my only suggestion is to be careful, you might just get what you wish for...
 

Alan McDougall

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shnarkle said:
While I can agree that it could be interpreted as bleak, it is certainly no where near as bleak as what you posted. For example, you suggested that the punishment depicted in Revelations is for Hitler. Really? Do you not know that the same law by which you judge others judges you, and that to fail in one point is to fail in all points of the law? Do you know that we all have the same depraved corrupt heart? Hitler was just a bit more ambitious than you are. What I was pointing to in my post is that God doesn't have to waste his effort on extra stripes for the particularly horrid souls that have fallen from grace; their fall is punishment enough. Only Lucifer could appreciate the pernicious height from which he fell. Unlike you, I'd prefer to see the gates of hell locked from the inside rather than some vengeful stingy god greedily disallowing his love to reach the far corners of infinity, stretching out for his eternal workout of wrath. A hell for those who cannot stand the idea of an all loving God, and must therefore hide in eternal darkness puts the blame justly where it belongs; on themselves. If you'd rather see a punishing god, my only suggestion is to be careful, you might just get what you wish for...
The reality of heaven and hell, punishments and reward are set up by the Supreme Authority namely by Almighy God and nothing you say or do can alter that reality, other than living a life of agape love and having an altruistic nature towards your fellow humans. If he live like the devil then you must expect the same eternal fate as his period.