These three are one

[Truther]

Not so. You are clearly a TRINITY ...

Truther the husband
Truther the father
Truther the son

Question: is the name of your grandson in the avatar, "Son"?

Hey, great idea.

I will rename him.... Grand Son, and see what his parents think of my title/name!!!

 

[OzSpen]

................................................
I can prove that John 1:1c does not mean that the Word was God. But it takes a little effort to understand the grammar John chose to use, so, of course, no trinitarian will make the effort.

My first personal (and the lengthiest) study is Search For Bible Truths: The "Definite" John 1:1

My next attempt to shorten it and still retain the important facts was Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity

And finally I broke it up into 7 (or 6) lessons Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity

Is there anyone sincere enough to discuss one of these studies (step by step) with me?

You've depended on your JW mates to provide the grammar. Hardly an unbiased perspective!

Oz

 

[tigger 2]

You've depended on your JW mates to provide the grammar. Hardly an unbiased perspective!

Oz

That is a falsehood! I did the research on my own. I have not seen anyone use the same research to the degree I have. The grammar I used was mostly that of Dana and Mantey; A.T. Robertson; Moulton; Moule; and other trinitarians. They don't like what it really says about John 1:1c, but the rest of their Grammars give the tools for an honest investigation.

How do you have the gall to call me a liar by lying yourself?

If you have the integrity to analyze my research with me, you would then be able to honestly rate my research.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I have a setup in my home office, one in my garage and one in my truck. I even keep an emergency setup in the trunk of my wife's car.

I had to stop buying stuff though..there is only one of me. LOL

I know the feeling Truth, me I am addicted to cars, and watches. I am the kind of individual that buys high, and sells low.

 

[Truther]

I know the feeling Truth, me I am addicted to cars, and watches. I am the kind of individual that buys high, and sells low.

The key to not taking a loss is hoarding...LOL

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Regardless of doctrine, it's faith in Christ that saves, both Luther and Calvin possessed that in common. You are no more saved than they! You can get every doctrine of Scripture wrong, but if your faith is in Christ, what He did for us on the Cross, you will be saved.

Whether you want to believe it or not, it is entirely possible for someone to worship a counterfeit Christ. And that is exactly what the Reformers worshiped: a counterfeit Christ that they invented for themselves. It's not enough to believe in a version of Christ that died for someone's sins. A person has to believe in the true Christ and adhere to His doctrines. Read John's own words and try selling this idea that it doesn't matter what someone believes as long as they acknowledge Christ's existence:

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. - 2 Jhn 9

You would do well to notice that John didn't leave any wiggle room in that statement by saying a person only needs to believe a doctrine about Christ and that they can get every other doctrine completely wrong. He said that if anyone deviates from the doctrines of Christ in any way, that person is not being led by God. Why? Because a person who deviates from the doctrines of Christ is being led by their own reasoning.

And that's exactly what Protestantism amounts to: deceived individuals elevating their own reasoning above God's reasoning. That's why a core tenet of Protestantism is to reject God's laws as "Mosaic/Jewish". They hate the fact that God reserves the right to tell them how how to live as their Maker, just like every other unbelieving person on the planet(Rom. 8:7, Eph. 2:2).

In light of that fact, it's not a surprise why Protestants continue to subscribe to the false trinity doctrine. Worshiping a triune god that doesn't demand them to stop living like unbelievers is a whole lot more convenient than worshiping the God that demands people to conform to His image by striving towards moral perfection(Matt. 5:48).

The biggest problem with the idea that a person will be saved by simply believing in the sacrifice of Christ is that Christ Himself contradicts it:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." - Matt. 7:21

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say? - Luk. 6:46

A person can pay Jesus lip service to the day they die, and it will amount to nothing if it isn't accompanied by obedience to His Father and His doctrines. That is exactly why James taught in his epistle that faith without obedience is worthless. It does no one any good to talk about how Jesus is their Savior if they refuses to believe His doctrines enough to live by them. Believing in Christ's sacrifice is only part of the equation, not the entire equation.

 

[Charlie24]

Whether you want to believe it or not, it is entirely possible for someone to worship a counterfeit Christ. And that is exactly what the Reformers worshiped: a counterfeit Christ that they invented for themselves. It's not enough to believe in a version of Christ that died for someone's sins. A person has to believe in the true Christ and adhere to His doctrines. Read John's own words and try selling this idea that it doesn't matter what someone believes as long as they acknowledge Christ's existence:



You would do well to notice that John didn't leave any wiggle room in that statement by saying a person only needs to believe a doctrine about Christ and that they can get every other doctrine completely wrong. He said that if anyone deviates from the doctrines of Christ in any way, that person is not being led by God. Why? Because a person who deviates from the doctrines of Christ is being led by their own reasoning.

And that's exactly what Protestantism amounts to: deceived individuals elevating their own reasoning above God's reasoning. That's why a core tenet of Protestantism is to reject God's laws as "Mosaic/Jewish". They hate the fact that God reserves the right to tell them how how to live as their Maker, just like every other unbelieving person on the planet(Rom. 8:7, Eph. 2:2).

In light of that fact, it's not a surprise why Protestants continue to subscribe to the false trinity doctrine. Worshiping a triune god that doesn't demand them to stop living like unbelievers is a whole lot more convenient than worshiping the God that demands people to conform to His image by striving towards moral perfection(Matt. 5:48).

The biggest problem with the idea that a person will be saved by simply believing in the sacrifice of Christ is that Christ Himself contradicts it:





A person can pay Jesus lip service to the day they die, and it will amount to nothing if it isn't accompanied by obedience to His Father and His doctrines. That is exactly why James taught in his epistle that faith without obedience is worthless. It does no one any good to talk about how Jesus is their Savior if they refuses to believe His doctrines enough to live by them. Believing in Christ's sacrifice is only part of the equation, not the entire equation.

I agree there is "another Jesus" Paul made that clear. I agree it is not good enough to just believe that Christ exists. Matthew made that clear.

We Protestants, most of us, believe that it is well for us to separate from the legalist view of the RCC.

The RCC is has burdened the common man with a load he cannot bear, in the same fashion as the Sanhedrin of old.

Man is loaded down with laws and regulations that Paul never taught, nor is there any example of it in the establishment if his Churches.

The RCC is being less than honest in stating that "there is no salvation outside the Church." There is nothing in Scripture that calls for that statement. It's another "tradition of men."

We will stand against your doctrines, laws and regulations, with simple faith in Jesus Christ, "the author and finisher of our faith."

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Believing in Christ's sacrifice is only part of the equation, not the entire equation.

One-Time belief in The True LORD Jesus Christ, His FINISHED Work on
the Cross, And His Resurrection From the dead is The Entire Equation for
"Justification [For "the PENALTY of All sin"] Unto ETERNAL Life."

The other equation is for the reward/loss of for "works, good or bad,"
At Judgment! (Sanctification Over "the POWER of sin" = life-long!)

I agree there is "another Jesus" Paul made that clear.

Correct, here are the ones that have been "proposed" to me over the years:

1) Jesus is "a god" Not The Almighty God.

2) Jesus has a "father, who is a man" who is "a God of Many Gods,"
who each have their own world with Many wives; this Jesus and all
his followers can "become the same Gods."

3) A trinitarian Jesus, but whose "sacrifice" is INsufficient payment for sin,
and is "RE-sacrificed" daily, all over the world, called down from heaven
into a "wafer, so the recipient can RECEIVE him [cannabilism?]," and
thus hope not to be lost to Eternal torment.

4) Jesus as a mere man, but a good prophet or teacher...

GRACE, Peace, And JOY In The Great God And Saviour, Jesus Christ!

 

[Matthias]

One-Time belief in The True LORD Jesus Christ, His FINISHED Work on
the Cross, And His Resurrection From the dead is The Entire Equation for
"Justification [For "the PENALTY of All sin"] Unto ETERNAL Life."

The other equation is for the reward/loss of for "works, good or bad,"
At Judgment! (Sanctification Over "the POWER of sin" = life-long!)

Correct, here are the ones that have been "proposed" to me over the years:

1) Jesus is "a god" Not The Almighty God.

2) Jesus has a "father, who is a man" who is "a God of Many Gods,"
who each have their own world with Many wives; this Jesus and all
his followers can "become the same Gods."

3) A trinitarian Jesus, but whose "sacrifice" is INsufficient payment for sin,
and is "RE-sacrificed" daily, all over the world, called down from heaven
into a "wafer, so the recipient can RECEIVE him [cannabilism?]," and
thus hope not to be lost to Eternal torment.

4) Jesus as a mere man, but a good prophet or teacher...

GRACE, Peace, And JOY In The Great God And Saviour, Jesus Christ!

What is “a mere man”? How would you define that phrase?

 

[RR144]

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:7, 8

As rendered in the King James Version, verses 7 and 8 are confusing, but most of the reading is spurious, not being found in almost 200 manuscripts earlier than the seventh century. The correct reading is, “For there are three that bear record: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.” (The RSV and the NIV support this rendering.) The Holy Spirit, the water, and the blood are the three witnesses, or essentials, that John was emphasizing. The Spirit is really the understanding of the Word of God; it is enlightenment. Again, John was repeating himself, but the repetition is helpful, for we have to dwell on these points in order to assimilate them. The correct sequence for the Christian is (1) heart baptism, (2) Spirit begettal, (3) literal water baptism, and (4) faithfulness unto death (resisting unto “blood”). Incidentally, the Jews who accepted Christ needed this sequence too, whether or not they had John’s baptism

 

[Robert Gwin]

The key to not taking a loss is hoarding...LOL

I gotche Truth. There definitely be truth in that statement.

 

[Truther]

I gotche Truth. There definitely be truth in that statement.

As I walk sideways in my garage...LOL

 

[Robert Gwin]

As I walk sideways in my garage...LOL

I understand, I turned one day and started to walk and tripped over something hit my knee and literally had a very large bump on my kneecap, I was scared to go to the doctor, and didn't. Thankfully it went away and I have no effects several yrs later. I tend to work till I get sick of it and walk away, leaving stuff out, which can save time from dragging it out and in, but likely being safe is the better way.