Thorn in the flesh

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Ziggy

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2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Humbleness.
That's what comes to mind when I read this passasge. Humbleness.
I don't think it matters who the messenger is, but rather the message being brought.

just thinking..
Hugs
 

Ronald Nolette

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2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Humbleness.
That's what comes to mind when I read this passasge. Humbleness.
I don't think it matters who the messenger is, but rather the message being brought.

just thinking..
Hugs

Well humility is not a thorn but virtue. This was in his body and nearly all believe it to be the fact Paul never fully recovered his eyesight after being knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus. He needed a guide to help in his journeys and Paul only handwrote one of his epistles. the rest were dictated to others who wrote his words down.
 

Daniel Veler

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In the same chapter it tells you the thorn. It was not his eye sight. Read it and understand.
 

Ronald Nolette

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In the same chapter it tells you the thorn. It was not his eye sight. Read it and understand.


Well further on the words weakness and infirmity are both the exact same word "astheneia" which is an illness or infirmity of body. So I think I do understand.
 

amigo de christo

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Well humility is not a thorn but virtue. This was in his body and nearly all believe it to be the fact Paul never fully recovered his eyesight after being knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus. He needed a guide to help in his journeys and Paul only handwrote one of his epistles. the rest were dictated to others who wrote his words down.
Paul sure did have some others writing down what he was saying . Best guess is it was his eye sight .
However , remember this , paul said satan buffeted him . SO this had nothing to do with the miraculous light
that did indeed blind him . No this was something else . cause HE says a messenger of satan was sent to buffet him .
Now , i have just one more reminder to give us .
LET THE GLORIOUS MAGNIFICENT WONDEROUS LORD BE PRAISED AND THANKED AND PRAISED AND THANKED . PRAISE THE LORD .
 
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amigo de christo

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2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Humbleness.
That's what comes to mind when I read this passasge. Humbleness.
I don't think it matters who the messenger is, but rather the message being brought.

just thinking..
Hugs
exactly ziggy . GOD knew what to allow . He allowed it for the sake of paul . SO as he would not be exalted in mind , due to all those
revelations . GOD looks out for us sister . Humble . of humble mind . LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .
YES , what i say to one i freely say to all , LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED CONTINUOUSLY . YES Indeed .
 
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Ziggy

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I'll tell you what's a thorn right now in the body of Christ.
We have an infirmity, and the illness is spreading.
Everyone contending with another trying to prove themselves right and the other wrong.
This isn't personal. It's universal. And it's personal.
And I'm feeling it everywhere.

What is the message Paul is trying to give us in that verse?
Is it physical sickness or something deeper?
Paul said:
lest I should be exalted above measure

What does that mean to you.. what Paul said?

Hugs...
for real
my heart is breaking..
Let us reason together.
 

Ziggy

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exactly ziggy . GOD knew what to allow . He allowed it for the sake of paul . SO as he would not be exalted in mind , due to all those
revelations . GOD looks out for us sister . Humble . of humble mind . LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .
YES , what i say to one i freely say to all , LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED CONTINUOUSLY . YES Indeed .
Thank You
Hugs
 

amigo de christo

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I'll tell you what's a thorn right now in the body of Christ.
We have an infirmity, and the illness is spreading.
Everyone contending with another trying to prove themselves right and the other wrong.
This isn't personal. It's universal. And it's personal.
And I'm feeling it everywhere.

What is the message Paul is trying to give us in that verse?
Is it physical sickness or something deeper?
Paul said:


What does that mean to you.. what Paul said?

Hugs...
for real
my heart is breaking..
Let us reason together.
There is a far bigger sickness in the church than even what you just said .
This sickness , this putrid doctrine of this all inclusive unity , is casting JESUS right out of the church for sake of unity .
NOW that is super deadly as i am sure my dear sister would agree .
 
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Ziggy

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Hos 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.

Thorns and thistles:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Thorns and thistles come in many shapes, sizes, and authorities.

Who can you trust?

Psa 115:11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
 

Enoch111

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In the same chapter it tells you the thorn. It was not his eye sight. Read it and understand.
It is more than likely that it was Paul's eyesight. But it could have been any physical or crippling disability. Satan does used physical disabilities against people as we see in the Gospels.
 
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theefaith

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Suffering is good for us!

grace is sufficient?

grace enabled him to suffer virtuously for Christ


Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.





Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He is our model in everything!

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 
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amigo de christo

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Hos 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.

Thorns and thistles:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Thorns and thistles come in many shapes, sizes, and authorities.

Who can you trust?

Psa 115:11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
They sure do my dear sister . And often they come from within the same group . OH yes .
 
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amadeus

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2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Humbleness.
That's what comes to mind when I read this passasge. Humbleness.
I don't think it matters who the messenger is, but rather the message being brought.

just thinking..
Hugs
And the written words of Paul continue...

"For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong" II Cor 12:8-10

We do not need to be physically healed to do God's work. Here for Paul cited God's words on it...

...My grace is sufficient for thee...

People on forums, including this one, are often arguing or discussing the grace of God, what it or is not, what it does or does not do. Here Paul has given us a definite 'for instance'!

Give God the glory! Walk ahead in pain following God's lead...if that is the Way that He is leading!
Thank you dear God!

Not all pain is physical pain! Not all thorns come from rose bushes.
 

Daniel Veler

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Read chapters
2 Corinthians 11 and 12 and see what Paul suffered.


Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
 

Daniel Veler

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Well further on the words weakness and infirmity are both the exact same word "astheneia" which is an illness or infirmity of body. So I think I do understand.


2 Corinthians 11 and 12


Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Paul sure did have some others writing down what he was saying . Best guess is it was his eye sight .
However , remember this , paul said satan buffeted him . SO this had nothing to do with the miraculous light
that did indeed blind him . No this was something else . cause HE says a messenger of satan was sent to buffet him .
Now , i have just one more reminder to give us .
LET THE GLORIOUS MAGNIFICENT WONDEROUS LORD BE PRAISED AND THANKED AND PRAISED AND THANKED . PRAISE THE LORD .


And it still could be his eyesight. to buffet is to treat badly so I am content with his eyes, but if it is something else, I am content with that as well. This is a small thing that amounts to near nothing.
 

Ronald Nolette

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2 Corinthians 11 and 12


Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

So are you saying that being persecuted for the faith is a messenger of Satan?
 

theefaith

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And it still could be his eyesight. to buffet is to treat badly so I am content with his eyes, but if it is something else, I am content with that as well. This is a small thing that amounts to near nothing.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

all it says is flesh so you’re free to think so as long as it was physical suffering

I’m sure he followed col 1:24