Tithe

[Truther]

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:...

8 And here men that die receive tithes; ...

AKA...The Jewish priests.

 

[Truther]

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.


Pick your priesthood.

You can't be under both Aaron and Judah.

You must only be under one of them,

With Jesus, there is no representative priesthood between us and him.

Only with the Aaronic priesthood are there go- between representatives.

 

[Truther]

If a man tells us "if you tithe to me you are tithing to Jesus", then they are making themselves the recipient of the tithe and they are Jesus' proxy. They are our priests under the order of Melchisedek.

Yikes!

 

[doctrox]

The tithes were not connected so much with the "land" in which the Israelites lived, but rather with the "fertile soil of God", that God had given for them to inhabited in communion with Him.

Beautiful.

 

[Fred J]

But my church doesn't. I've never attended a church that insists on a compulsory 10%.

Even 'tithing'?

Then this thread doesn't concern you.

But most of the so called born again and built in honor of the Protestant and Reformers fathers, churches are practicing so.

"Percentage" is merely another way of expressing "proportion". There's no practical difference between the two; the distinction is purely in terminology. All proportions are a percentage. Whatever amount you are giving is a percentage of your income, whether you want to call it that or not. So Paul's 'proportion' is a percentage - he just didn't specify what the percentage (or proportion) should be.

We disagree and it's absurd, folly, twisted and related to 'lukewarm' faith.

Why?

Example giving by percentage, so this week your income as GOD made you prosper, is $ 1,016.50

So you decided to give 20% as offering, therefore equals to $ 203.30 your offering.

Looks like this is how you give your offering with added 3 dollars and 30 cents syilings and likewise.

Apparetly you seem to be carnally wiser and gone ahead of Apostle Paul and GOD and Word to give 'percentage' offering, awfully brilliant.

Example this is 'legit' giving by 'proportion' requested by the Word of GOD, as we'll give according to what our spiritual heart decide to give in 'proportion'.

We'll set aside a 'round firgure' sum of $ 500,00 or less from the same income which we've decided to give as offeering.

True born again readers,

Please do not hold back what you've decided to give as Ananias ans Sapphira did, give it anyway even though you may fall back 'anxious' about tomorrow suddenly.

For the GOD who made you prosper called you not to be anxious about tommorow, for HE who counts the strands of hair on your scalp, will meet your needs more than them fowls.

And that is faith stepping forward growing step by step, as faith comes from hearing and hearing the Word of GOD, that is HIS every word that proceeded out of HIS mouth. (2Timothy3:16&17)

To conclude and back again, you and your friends with you need to do a 'reality check' rather than immaturely and unwisely debate in vain.

Furthermore continue in 'lawlessness', even simply unable to differentiate between 'percentage' and 'porportion' when there's difference by definition.

Mind you, a simple misinterpret of English words, add to or take away from our reliable English version Holy Bible, can lead GOD's innocent lambs astary and in lawlessness.

For such an accountable person according to the Word of GOD, a stone should be tied around one's neck and thrown into the deep ocean.(Matthew 18:6)

 

[Fred J]

True born again readers,

'Tithes' or even 'percentage' as offering is 'not' mentioned in the New Testament, period

However is in the Law of Moses the Old Testamentmt, and the flesh was weak to fulfill, until there were laws for the rmission of sin and purfication and cleansing.

All Israelites under the Law apparently fall under sin, bondage, curse and death, even though they comply the laws of redemption including the priests.

When Jesus brought grace and truth, in their 'unbelief' and 'blindness' they were 'opposed' the God and the new covenant, He wanted to give and make with them.

All though they were alive, Jesus on the contrary said that they were white washed tombs, pristine on the outside but bones, dirt and stench on the inside.

To cut it short, they a remnant together with us Gentiles, now are 'born again' by grace and through faith the gift of GOD, together from 'dry bones we've become flesh in the spirit.

A 'new creation' now built in the foundation of the Prophets who 'foretold' and foundation of the Apostle that has come in 'accomplishment'.

When the Law and the Prophets was fulfilled, whereby sin, bondage, curse and death was nailed on the Cross in 'accomplishment', it's since 'abolished'.

To none pertaining to the Law, whether 'dot' or 'comma', to a letter of letters demanded in them, were reintroduced to the New Testament of grace.

Those who've come under grace have the tendency of going back practicing to a letter or letters pertaining to the Law in 'ignorance'.

Even to 'tithes' and 'percentage' offerimgs to everything GOD made one prosper in one's land or now business or job, whether income, bonuses, commissions etc.

They are no longer under grace and the New Covenant/Testament/Agreement of GOD, and 'nullyfy' the 'accomplishment' of Lord Jesus Christ that has set them 'free'.

Clearly, in the New Testament, those under 'grace' and built in the foundation of the Apostles, is given also the term on 'offering' in a better way as GOD's children.

As Jesus said and is written that, "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven." (believers will not be going to Heaven) (Matthew5:20)

The only 'term' the Apostles discipled us was, 'To give a proportion (no longer percentage) from what GOD made you prosper and how much a child of GOD felt in their born again spiritual heart to give.

Moreover in the 'term' of one should be, a 'generous giver' and at the same time a 'cheerful giver', as 'doers' and 'abiders' cum bear much good fruit.

The less one gives the less one reaps, and the more one gives the more one reaps, and 'overflowing', as, 'freely you have received, freely give'.

Apparently a child of GOD who's a 'doer' and 'abider' to HIS Word of the N.T., tend to start from a spiritual child giver to a matured man giver progressively.

 

[Fred J]

Galatians 3:
10. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
11. But that no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12. And the Law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 5:
3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcissed(or tithing), that he is a debtor to do the whole Law.
4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.

James 2:
10. For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point(even tithing or percentage), he is guilty of all.

Mind you, the Law consist of 'tithing' and 'percentage giving', and there's no 'compromise' or under under 'curse', period

 

[markalan]

Mind you, the Law consist of 'tithing' and 'percentage giving', and there's no 'compromise' or under under 'curse', period

You do know that tithing preceded the Law, right?

 

[Fred J]

You do know that tithing preceded the Law, right?

Right.

Do you know 'tithing' is in the Law?

What i meant, is it not a 'letter' in the Law?

 

[Fred J]

You do know that tithing preceded the Law, right?

So did 'circumcission'.

According to Paul, we're called and born again under the N.T. the 'new covenant' Gentiles, can we 'circumcize' like the Jews?

 

[markalan]

Right.

Do you know 'tithing' is in the Law?

Was Abraham keeping the Law?

 

[Fred J]

Was Abraham keeping the Law?

Was 'sin' recorded then?

 

[markalan]

Was 'sin' recorded then?

Abraham paid tithes out of honour, not sin. Hebrews 7

 

[Fred J]

If a man tells us "if you tithe to me you are tithing to Jesus", then they are making themselves the recipient of the tithe and they are Jesus' proxy. They are our priests under the order of Melchisedek.

Yikes!

Abraham and Melchizedek were not under the Law nor sin was recorded then and apparently they're exempted from the Law and consequences.

When the Law came sin was 'recorded', and Paul said by the Law sin came to life, meaning he knew by the Law what truly is sin and he battled. (Romans ch.7)

Including Gentiles without the Law and GOD, for basically they had the Law to some extend in their conscience, either excusing or convicting them.

When Christ came and went, Jews and Gentiles likewise come under the catergory of, 'For all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD'. (Romans3:23)

So if the church wants to go back following Abraham and Melchizedek, men get yourselves 'circumcised' as well, and all pertaining to the Law.

Grace is not for you, period

 

[Fred J]

Abraham paid tithes out of honour, not sin. Hebrews 7

Immature, give a verse in the New Testament our 'new covenant', GOD given and made with us church under 'grace', 'tithes' and 'percentage' is written for us to 'do' and 'abide'.

If not, we've nothing in common and it's in vain to continue.

 

[markalan]

Abraham and Melchizedek were not under the Law nor sin was recorded then and apparently they're exempted from the Law and consequences.

When the Law came sin was 'recorded', and Paul said by the Law sin came to life, meaning he knew by the Law what truly is sin and he battled. (Romans ch.7)

Including Gentiles without the Law and GOD, for basically they had the Law to some extend in their conscience, either excusing or convicting them.

When Christ came and went, Jews and Gentiles likewise come under the catergory of, 'For all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD'. (Romans3:23)

So if the church wants to go back following Abraham and Melchizedek, men get yourselves 'circumcised' as well, and all pertaining to the Law.

Grace is not for you, period

Romans 4:9-13

"Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,
and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."

 

[Fred J]

Romans 4:9-13

The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,

Beloved true born again readers,

As per above quote by Apotle Paul to the Gentile church, is it for them to 'believe' Abraham?

So the church no need to be circumcised like Abraham but can give 'tithes' as offering like Abraham to Melchizedek, and today's church to priests is fine?

Heresy!

Only 'believe' GOD, HIS Word and HIS Covenant given and made with HIS people individually or as per generation and at the same time periodically!

Abraham believe the Word of GOD during his time and in faith acted upon it, and that was counted as righteousness on his part then.

(Since Abraham was not suppose to receive the Law, hence sin did not come to life in him, for him to know sin and battle like Paul who received the Law. Moreover Abraham's sin was not recorded then, because by the Law and when sin is recorded, Abraham too is guilty of sin)

Because Abraham is like all of us, children from Adam and Eve, and when it comes to the Spiritual Law of GOD through Moses, we all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. (Romans3:23)

Then came the Israelites descended from Abraham (besides those who rebelled and were punished), believe the Word of GOD and received the Law of GOD through Moses in their time.

They 'obeyed' the Law (besides those violate) and acted in 'faith', even to the saying of the Prophets of the coming Messiah as their Old Covenant/Testament/Agreement.

(One among others Jesus spoke about is Nathanael, saying, "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!")

Messiah Jesus the Lord from Heaven came and became flesh on earth, whereby a remnant of them believed. likewise acted in faith in their time.

And He discipled them the Kingdom of GOD and acted on it, even to the fulfillment of the Old, hence gave and made with them the New Covenant as promised.

Hence before He ascended, commissioned them He,to take the same to the ends of the earth, make disicples and baptized the scattered Jews and Gentiles in all nation.

Those who believe and acted by faith the same New Covenant in their time, became the 'body of Christ/church' and were furthermore instructed to observe all that Jesus have commanded.

And we Gentiles too did the same, believe and acted in faith to the Word of GOD in our time, which came through the discipled and commissioned Apostles and churches after them.

Finally, the verse quoted by 'markalan' above out of context, but in context and sound doctrine teaches us that, we're not to act Abraham's faith.

But rather to act in faith like Abraham to the Word of GOD and the Covenant HE gives and makes in our time of visitatiion, like father Abraham and the Israelites in thier time.

According to our time of believe and act of faith by the New Covenant and under grace, the Law have been 'abolished' since fulfilled by Messiah Jesus already.

That's why our believe and act of faith counted as righteousness by the given and made the New Covenant in our time, no longer abide by what's been 'abolished' nor of Abraham's that's been done with.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

Galatians 3:
10. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
11. But that no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12. And the Law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 5:
3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcissed(or tithing), that he is a debtor to do the whole Law.
4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.

James 2:
10. For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point(even tithing), he is guilty of all.

''Tithe' and 'percentage' offering are 'letters' written in the Law of GOD through Moses according to the Old Covenant/Testament/Agreement.

Which have been 'fulfilled' by our Lord Jesus Christ and since been 'abolished', when GOD through HIS Son Jesus 'in these last days' gave and made the New Covenant/Testament/Agreement. (Hebrews 1:1&2)

Apparently first with the Jews, initially are dead in sin based on the Law, likewise with Gentiles dead in sin based on the Law to certain extend in their consciense.

'Both' since have been 'resurrected' with Christ, by grace and through faith the gift of GOD, become 'born again' a 'new creature/creation'.

[Remember the parable of Jesus that new wine (New Covenant) must be stored in a new wine bag skin (born again body of Christ/church)]

[Because the old wine bag skin (Jews, even Gentiles) was initially stored with the old wine (Old Covenant to the Law and Prophets)]

[Therefore you cannot store the 'new wine' into an empty (dead in sin) 'old wine bag skin', which only cause the 'bag to swell and brust', hence the 'new wine' shall be wasted]

Since the New Covenant (new wine) is already given and made (stored) with the new creature/creation (new wine bag skin) and sufficient to hold and not run out.

Therefore why 'look back' or 'go back' looking for the 'old wine' (Old Covenant) since it' has 'run out', 'discontinued' (abolished) and made way for a new and better wine (fulfilled, given and made the New Covenant)??

Isn't the 'new wine' (New Covenant) better, sweet, sufficient, sustain and never run out for ever and ever, that we should be 'contented' with, which given and made for eternity with GOD??

 

[Fred J]

Hi @Fred J referring to your original post -
I appreciate the distinction being made between the Old Covenant tithe and New Covenant giving. It is important that we understand tithing within its biblical context rather than simply transferring the Mosaic system directly into the church.

Under the Law of Moses, tithing was connected to Israel's covenant structure, the Levites, the temple service, and the care of the stranger, widow, and orphan. It was not simply a weekly monetary contribution to a local assembly, as many understand it today.

The New Testament pattern does not present a command that believers must give a fixed 10% to the church. Instead, the apostles emphasized willing, generous, and sacrificial giving:

"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7

However, we should also be careful not to conclude that because the New Testament does not command a tithe, generosity is somehow reduced. The early believers gave sacrificially, cared for those in need, and supported those who labored in the gospel.

The question is therefore not whether Christians should give, because scripture clearly teaches generosity, but whether the Mosaic tithe system should be presented as a New Covenant requirement.

One point I would clarify is that scripture does not say tithing began with Cain and Abel. Cain and Abel brought offerings, but the first recorded tithe is Abraham giving a tenth to Melchizedek. Abraham's action is important, but Scripture records it as an act of faith rather than a command given to all believers.

Ultimately, the New Covenant calls believers to something deeper than a legal percentage. We are called to be faithful stewards of everything God has entrusted to us, giving according to faith, love, and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Dear Angelina,

Thank you very much for your humble feedback as per the New Testament believe and faith.

The point am making and am a witness myself, is that the church also use the word 'tithe' and 'a tenth' offering from one's income.

During Apostle Paul's ministy, he also faced the 'issue' instigated by the 'sneaked Jews' that Gentiles should be 'circumcised' as well.

And we have the account of the reaction that came from him and James based on thier epistles, and it was not all pleasent since the seriousness and danger of it.

Now we're witnessing the church who should know better from the account itself and supposedly discipled, are 'bewitched' once again.

Apparently going back to the Old Covenant and from the Law of Moses pick up once again practices like 'tithes' and 'a tenth' offering that has been 'abolished' is 'folly' and 'lawlessness'.

For one, practice just a 'letter'(circumcission/tithe) pertaining to the Law, compulsory must practice all that is in the Law.

Even to violate the least of the 'letter' comprised in the Law, therefore violate all, hence 'neglect' and 'curse' is the end result.

Apparently such churches unwisely are accumulating trouble for themselves on judgement day, therefore 'pray' they need to be addressed.

The believers in the Methodist congregation am attending do use the word 'tithes' and apparently 'a tenth' from one's income.

But i don't follow, rather i go with 'proportion' decided in my heart is offered and not even 'percentage' anymore.

Believers did highlight to the pastor that 'tithes' is of the Old Testament but he responded with a verse in Matthew ch. 23:23, claiming that Jesus Himself approves.

For a moment i was taken back, but based on discipled recollection by the helper Holy Ghost, it's out of context and not the context to distinguish.

If it's okay, may i know your respond on this, thank you?

 

[Truther]

Abraham and Melchizedek were not under the Law nor sin was recorded then and apparently they're exempted from the Law and consequences.

When the Law came sin was 'recorded', and Paul said by the Law sin came to life, meaning he knew by the Law what truly is sin and he battled. (Romans ch.7)

Including Gentiles without the Law and GOD, for basically they had the Law to some extend in their conscience, either excusing or convicting them.

When Christ came and went, Jews and Gentiles likewise come under the catergory of, 'For all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD'. (Romans3:23)

So if the church wants to go back following Abraham and Melchizedek, men get yourselves 'circumcised' as well, and all pertaining to the Law.

Grace is not for you, period

Wait, Jesus is "Melchisedek". He is after that order. Hebrews 7

We have to choose between the Melchisedek(Jesus) priesthood(that was changed) or the Aaronic priesthood,

They cannot be mingled.

Jesus was from Judah, disqualifying him, per the Law, from the OT Law for priests.

This is a huge change....


3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,


So, we cannot place ourselves between other believers to receive tithes for Jesus.

We cannot give tithe to Jesus. Nor can we receive it for Jesus. We are all equals as priests under 1 high priest(hood).

There is no mediator between us and Jesus.

We have nothing to do with the OT Law if we are born again.(and walking in the Spirit)