Let me try to be crystal clear.
We have the same “free will” that Adam had.
The question is what is our “will” really Free to do?
Our will is free to do anything that is in agreement with our nature.
Let ME be crystal clear A,
I'm the one who's been saying that we have the free will of A and E and that it HAS NOT BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM US. Please show me WHERE in scripture it has been taken away.
As to what our free will is really able to do.
Since you wish to be crystal clear...how about forgetting about philosophical free will and try to stick to theological free will.
1. How could our free will be free to do what is in our nature if we don't have free will?
2. In theology free will means the ability to make A MORAL CHOICE.
I do believe you must know this...so stop dancing around the free will bush.
So what is our nature?
Our nature is the same as the nature of Adam. We want to be like God. We do not want to follow God, or obey God, we want to be sovereign like God. We want to do what WE WANT.
So Adam easily had the physical ability to run to God when he had sinned and we have the physical ability to pray to God when we sin ... but Adam WOULD NOT run to God because that is not what Adam wanted. Adam wanted to hide. We do not run to God because that is not what sinners want, we want to hide just like Adam did. All mankind exercises their free will to run and hide. We never lost that free will, we have always had it. What mankind has NEVER had is the natural desire to run to God with our sins.
Very good. You understand that our free will was never taken away because it was NOT one of the supernatural gifts God gave to A and E. We're one whole step ahead.
So now we can discuss what our free will wants.
You say our free will wants to run away from God.
You say we want to hide like Adam wanted to hide.
Sinners do not want to run to God..so now we're dealing with whether or not man has always had the natural desire to run TO GOD.
Good. At least you've admitted we have not lost our free will.
I take this opportunity to say that our free will proves that God is sovereign.
A sovereign God is not afraid to give His creation (us) free will....
God is sovereign and a sovereign God desire MORE SO than a normal human being that a persons love be given freely. I don't want my husband to love me because I force him to...I want his love to be freely give.
So much more does a sovereign and powerful God want us to love Him freely...Not because He chose some to love Him. THAT IS NOT LOVE.
It would be a very weak God that felt He needed to control not only US, but everything that ever happened or will happen in the world...WHY would He be so afraid of events?
John 3:20-21
20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
Above Jesus states that those who do evil hate the light.
Simple. They do not come to the light because they like to do evil.
DOES IT SAY THAT GOD MAKES THEM DO EVIL?
Why would Jesus say this IF HE KNOWS that everything is predetermined?
Jesus states that he who practices THE TRUTH COMES TO THE LIGHT.
HE WHO PRACTICES TRUTH.....NOT the ones whom God has chosen.
NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE ARE THOSE WORDS EVER PUT TOGETHER.
The Good Deeds are Wrought in God....
They are what God wants us to do....
Those that hate the light stay away because they're afraid God will punish them.
WHY would God punish anyone for doing what HE WANTS THEM TO DO since you believe everything is determined?
Adam and people today are both physically capable of confessing our sins, but both Adam and people today exercise their free will by refusing to acknowledge their sins. We make excuses and blame others.
Adam and people today are physically capable of repenting, but we are unwilling to repent and use are free will to resist repenting and continue on the path of OUR choosing.
Not everyone is unwilling to repent.
Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 4:17?
That is why scripture describes us as slaves to sin and dead in our trespasses. That is why God must draw sinners to Christ and why God made us alive even when we were dead. Not because we could not (physically unable to) but because we would not (blind to the spiritual truth and exercising free will in stubborn rebellion).
Could you provide scripture please.
I'm thinking of Romans 6:23
We are dead IN SIN.
When we sin we are as dead spiritually.
But we PRESENT OURSELVES
PRESENT OURSELVES (of our own free will)
to someone as slaves for obedience...and we are slaves of the ONE WE OBEY.
Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
When God removes the heart of stone (a dead heart) and gives us a new heart of flesh (a living heart), we do not cease to have free will, rather our WANTS have changed so that we are now capable of exercising our free will to do the things of God. We can want to run towards God instead of away. We can want to confess our sins rather than blame others. We can want to change our way of life and stop living like a sinner and start living like Christ. Our free will is free from the desires of sin to allow us to do things we did not want to do before.
So my answer is that “libertine free will” (the ability to do good or evil without any help from God) never existed. Adam shows no sign of having it (reread the opening posts). So we cannot loose what we never had.
Oh. I'm sooo disappoiinted.
No need to reread the opening posts A....
So God told Adam not to eat of the tree of G and E.
So, in your opinion, GOD MADE ADAM WANT TO EAT THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT.
Yeah. That makes A LOT OF SENSE.
Did you hear?
Compatibilist free will is NO FREE WILL.
The “free will” to do what we want - follow our natural desire to hide from God and blame others and refuse to change - we have always had and we have never lost.
The “free will” to be Christlike comes only from the gift of God and the Holy Spirit that changes our heart (wants).
Any questions?
Not for you young man.
Calvinism twists scripture around so badly, it's any wonder anyone who understands English and reads the bible can even agree with it.
God doesn't FORCE ANYONE to change their heart.
He only helps us to do what our libertarian free will wants each one of us to do.