Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
My brother, we can be wrong and still remain brothers. We all have timbers in our eyes and so we must remain loving and humble with one another.
Transgender
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
But:
“…you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either! Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)
And:
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2)
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
What IS God's message on the transgender issue?
Chapter and verse please. Thanks.
It seems that you are confusing conservative politics with God's word.
VCO
Active Member
What do you think GOD MEANS BY ETERNAL ? ? ?
Mat. 25:46
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment,
Luke 8:31 (NCV)
31 The demons begged Jesus not to send them into eternal darkness.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 (ISV)
9 Such people will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power
Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 13:41-42 (KJV)
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; {HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS, if one has Genuine REMORSE and Confesses that sin, Not because of that DEED, but sincere repentence, wanting to return to GOD and walk in HIS ways, You have been forgiven, before Time began. Not because you did something, but because of what HE did on the Cross. You see, most of us have already been there. I was 29 years old when I surrendered to JESUS. Prior to that I lived like the Devil himself. I do not know how close I came to where HE gave up on me. It was very close, because I remember thinking I was in the doorway to Hell, ready to walk in! It is a fact that the longer you wait, the harder it takes to turn around, Surrender to Jesus, and begin to walk HIS WAY. Do I Believe in Death Bed Confessions? Yes, I do; but they are extremely RARE. If you are feeling that CONVICTION in your heart. The time is NOW! Surrender to HIM, let HIM rule your life, and KNOW JESUS will HELP YOU. . . . . . Waiting till Later is not an option. HE IS AT THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART, KNOCKING. LET HIM IN TO RULE 100%. OR this will be your destiny.}
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
The Decision to Surrender to HIM, was the best decision I ever made. I am happier now, then I could ever be without HIM.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Good question.
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.
Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21
Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
CC: @Patrick1966
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
I think that trying to demonstrate to many Christians that the original scriptures said NO SUCH THING is an unfruitful endeavor. While Hell is punitive, it is punitive for the purpose of restoring and purifying. It's also temporary.
I encourage you to look up Young's Literal Translation online and put in verses that talk about "eternity" or "everlasting" and you will see that the verses are mistranslated by most English bibles.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
VCO
Active Member
I KNOW IN MY HEART IT IS REALITY, I was standing there ready to walk in.
Revelation 20:14-15 (ASV)
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15 (HCSB)
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15 (GW)
14 Death and hell were thrown into the fiery lake. (The fiery lake is the second death.)
15 Those whose names were not found in the Book of Life were thrown into the fiery lake.
Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake <G3441> of fire <G4442>.
Jude 1:11-13 (NRSV)
11 Woe to them! For they go the way of Cain, and abandon themselves to Balaam's error for the sake of gain, and perish in Korah's rebellion.
12 These are blemishes on your love-feasts, while they feast with you without fear, feeding themselves. They are waterless clouds carried along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted;
13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the deepest darkness has been reserved forever.
2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
VCO
Active Member
We evangelicals and most other denominations believe HELL IS REAL, and that is Literally Eternal. No we do not believe at all that it was mistranslated. I have never been around anyone that has your interpretation of Scripture, never your denomination, and I am from the Bible Belt. Believe what you want to, but I will always believe what the BIBLE says.
So I think we are at a Stalemate.
Do you Believe in the Holy Trinity the same WAY WE DO?
How do you define BORN AGAIN?
Probably true!
In my studies, I've found the same language that is used of the everlasting life of the redeemed is the same language used to describe the suffering of the condemned. So if you think the words mean temporary suffering, do you likewise see an end to the eternal life of the redeemed? That would be consistent.
Much love!
VCO
Active Member
According to the Parallel Bible, between YLT and the NIV, and the rest of the English Bibles, KJ21, ASV, AMP, AMPC, BRG, CSB, CEB, CJB, CEB, DARBY, DLNT, DRA, DEV, ERV, EHV, ESV, ESVUK, EXB, GNV, GW, GNT, HCSB, ICB, ISV, PHILLIPS, JUB, KJB, AKJV, LSB, LEB, TLB, MSG, MEV, MOUNCE, NOG, NABRE, NASB, NASB1995, NCB, NCV, NET, NIRV, NIV, NIVUK, NKJV, NLV, NMB, NRVA, NRSVACE, NRSVACE, NRSVCE, NRSVUE, NTE, OJB, RGT, RSV, RSVECE, TLV, WEB, WE, WYC,
AND THE EXPRESSION IN YLT, punishment age-during, MEANS, EXACTLY ETERNAL OR EVERLASTING. No, I am not trying to argue, but it is your translators that made the error. They changed the meaning of the expression. It is only the difference is between VERY OLD ENGLISH expressions, and Modern English expressions that mean the exact same thing.
Wouldn't you agree, that false Interpretation is busted, every which way but LOOSE ? ? ? But you go ahead and believe what you want to, and we will Believe what the BIBLE SAYS.
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Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
VCO
Active Member
Where on earth did you get the idea, that I was filled with anger.
1 Timothy 4:10 (YLT)
10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.
That is where I get the idea, that there is only ONE SIN THAT EVERYONE GOING TO HELL is guilty of, and that is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, which is to get us to the point of believing and receiving HIM AS LORD, ruler of my life.
Mark 3:28-30 (HCSB)
28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Luke 12:10 (HCSB)
10 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
CHRIST PAID FOR ALL SINS OF MANKIND ON THE CROSS, EXCEPT, that one sin. They refused to let CHRIST rule their life, and continued to rule their own lives.
Adolf Hitler, was doomed, not because he killed 6,000,0000 Jews, Christ paid for his sins too. But Adolf Hitler refused to let CHRIST rule his life.
That is the only Sin that sends People to Hell for ETERNITY.
That is strike two, Next time, I will put you on my IGNORE LIST.
Titus 3:9-11 (NIV)
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
PLEASE Repent, and come to JESUS, and let HIM RULE.
I still would like to hear you answer to my two questions:
Do you Believe in the Holy Trinity the same WAY WE DO?
How do you define BORN AGAIN?
I am desperately trying to reach out with the truth, before it is too late.
1 Timothy 4:10 (YLT)
10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.
That is where I get the idea, that there is only ONE SIN THAT EVERYONE GOING TO HELL is guilty of, and that is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, which is to get us to the point of believing and receiving HIM AS LORD, ruler of my life.
Mark 3:28-30 (HCSB)
28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Luke 12:10 (HCSB)
10 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
CHRIST PAID FOR ALL SINS OF MANKIND ON THE CROSS, EXCEPT, that one sin. They refused to let CHRIST rule their life, and continued to rule their own lives.
Adolf Hitler, was doomed, not because he killed 6,000,0000 Jews, Christ paid for his sins too. But Adolf Hitler refused to let CHRIST rule his life.
That is the only Sin that sends People to Hell for ETERNITY.
That is strike two, Next time, I will put you on my IGNORE LIST.
Titus 3:9-11 (NIV)
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
PLEASE Repent, and come to JESUS, and let HIM RULE.
I still would like to hear you answer to my two questions:
Do you Believe in the Holy Trinity the same WAY WE DO?
How do you define BORN AGAIN?
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Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
I'm constantly amazed at all of the Christians that despise their brothers and sisters in Christ. They are too proud and haughty to be reached and their Himalayan egos prevent them from accepting the truth, even when it's God's own words. As Jesus said, shake the dust and move on.
VCO
Active Member
2 Corinthians 11:2-4 (HCSB)
2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, because I have promised you in marriage to one husband—to present a pure virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a complete and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!
Galatians 1:6-7 (HCSB)
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
7 not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the good news about the Messiah.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 (NASB)
3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
2 John 1:10 (NRSV)
10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;
2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, because I have promised you in marriage to one husband—to present a pure virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a complete and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!
Galatians 1:6-7 (HCSB)
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
7 not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the good news about the Messiah.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 (NASB)
3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
2 John 1:10 (NRSV)
10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;
TinMan
Well-Known Member
I know more than a few transexuals who say the same thing about fundamentalist Christians.
VCO
Active Member
IT IS WHAT GOD SAYS THAT COUNTS!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 (GW)
16 Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (GW)
20 First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation.
21 No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God's direction.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
God works on us in AGES. The end of this age will occur with Christ's return and then we will enter a new age. Various verses discuss some people being saved from death and damnation in this age but it's understood that they will also be resurrected when Christ returns while others will remain in the ground. The second resurrection will occur on the LAST day, after Jesus has put everyone and everything under his feet (1 Corinthians 15) and then Jesus, having completed his mission, will then give the kingdom, which includes every person that has ever existed, to God the Father. And that will conclude the ages and then we will live for eternity with God on the new Earth.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
You ignore a MOUNTAIN of scripture that demonstrates that all will live with God in his kingdom.
From 1 Corinthians 15:
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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