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Featured Trinity, A deeper look

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by CoreIssue, May 21, 2019.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Your point?

    Not necessarily.

    And also, the fact that the term means even, would indicate that it is not necessarily a separate person from any person spoken of immediately before (though I will not argue that they are not distinct).
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to the three men that appeared to Abraham, one of them was not the Holy Ghost; and neither was one of them the Father.

    One of them was a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ; and the other two were angels.
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    LOL, you can't answer the John 1:1-3 and Isaiah 44:24 question. no mind,

    second you just contridicted your ownself. "you said, "The second person of the Trinity appears in both the Old Testament and New Testament". but then you turned around and said, "Jesus never appears in the Old Testament". see your problem is "manifested", not appeared. big difference. but putting all that aside , lets get to something you want and cannot get.

    What does Elohim mean? accorcing to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments,
    H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
    אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
    1. (literally) supreme ones.
    2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
    3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
    4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
    5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
    6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
    [plural of H433]
    KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
    Root(s): H433

    Now 101G Definition, Elohim, is a diversity/plural of God himself in flesh ..... :p

    PICJAG
     
  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I was addressing the claim that God cares more about the heart than Bible knowledge.

    As far as word meaning, you cannot cherry pick a verse from one place and supposedly into what you want to say. It has to be in harmony with the rest of the Bible.

    Harmony and linguistics demand separate people. Which is Trinity
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It seems clear to me that since we all have one father (Malachi 2:10); that if you take a wild look at Hebrews 2:11-13 it just might be saying that Jesus is that one Father...?

    Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

    Heb 2:11, For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
    Heb 2:12, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
    Heb 2:13, And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    bible knowledge is the heart of God, the wat one ACTS from the heart.
    ERROR, Isaiah 28:10 "For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

    PICJAG.
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is never called father.

    He called the father in heaven father.
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Which requires linguistic knowledge to understand.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is a true and faithful claim.

    The doctrine of the Trinity states that the three persons are distinct, not separate.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You are in denial of the verses in question. Jesus' brethren, He calls them His children in the passage at hand.

    Heb 2:11, For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
    Heb 2:12, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
    Heb 2:13, And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    another error on your part. scripture,
    John 14:26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". ALL THINGS, that's the "HEART" of the matter.
    the Lord JESUS is that one "FATHER", see Isaiah 6:9


    PICJAG.
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You mean Isaiah 9:6.

    Isaiah 6:9 speaks also, however.
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    correct, and thank you. this is why God made "GOOD" saints to help out other saints, for none of us are 100% perfect

    again thank you.

    PICJAG

    like minds ... (smile).
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    He that sanctifieth is God the Father according to Jude.

    Jde 1:1, Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

    Now go here:

    Trinity, A deeper look
     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    God in Three Persons is very strongly present in the Bible; see John's Gospel, John's First Epistle, Romans 8, the end of Matthew 28, etc.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Especially the doctrine of Christ's Deity.
     
  17. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    we see what you're saying
    we see what you're saying, like wise in flesh as "brethren", but in Spirit, as "Father". we got you. ... :)

    PICJAG
     
    justbyfaith likes this.
  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You do not even understand what you are saying here. The truth is indeed contained in the Bible, but you are blind to so much of it because of you agenda. Find rather God agenda!

    The truth cannot be seen unless the heart is able to see it. This is why God looks at the heart... not because God is more concerned with one than with the other. What is needed is the vision to see the truth. The Truth is seen as a man is able to see the face of God... but who is able to see His face? Who is it now who can or ever will be able to see the face of God? This is why God is looking at our hearts. Are our hearts changed?

    First God speaking to Moses:
    "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Ex 33:20


    Then David speaking to God:
    "How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?" Psalm 13:1


    David again speaking to God:
    "When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8


    Then Solomon writing about God:
    "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2


    Then Paul:
    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12


    For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
    But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." Matt 13:15-17


    Where do we get eyes able to see the face of God? They are not the pair of fleshly orbs located just below the forehead, but rather if and when we have them they are in our heart... and I speak NOT the of muscular vessel in our chest that pumps red blood through our physical body. These eyes are the Holy Spirit in us quickening the vision of the new man... They are not focused on the death of people who may be missing it... such as those you so often want to point at calling them "cults". They, that is the real "eyes", see the Life which Jesus is and which Jesus brought to whosoever will. Jesus paid a price to make it possible for us to buy this golden vision, but the cost for us is death, the death of the old man...who is always contemplating the death of others or his own death in which he lives [without Life].

    "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18
     
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The Bible teaches Trinity which you deny.
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you have the same disease as did Dave L.

    Telling @amadeus that he is wrong for denying the Trinity is not going to do him any good. You need to help him believe in the truth by showing him the Trinity from scripture.

    People believe what they believe for a reason. Most people are not going to change what they believe simply because they are told that they are wrong. They need to be shown the truth. Give them a reason to believe in the truth, other than the condemnation that you are currently heaping upon them.

    Most people will not believe what you tell them because of coercion. Even people that have converted to Islam because of the sword have retained their Christian faith as moderates; of course when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, they will confess that Jesus is the Son of God if God abides in Him and He in them, even in the face of the sword of Islam.

    But my point being that, if you cannot show from the Bible the reality of the Trinity, nor can show from the Bible the essentiality (concerning salvation) of it as a doctrine; then your condemnation of those who do not hold to that doctrine is only based on your opinion and not the word of the Lord. Therefore there is no need to fear the condemnation that you are preaching about.

    But if you can show from scripture that believing in the Trinity is essential for salvation, those who do not believe in it will be forced to at least look at it as a doctrine to see whether the Bible actually teaches it so that it would be absolutely sound doctrine.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe in the Trinity myself...I'm just not certain that people who are searching for the truth are necessarily condemned if they don't believe in it yet.

    I see the Deity of Christ as absolutely essential (John 8:24, Exodus 3:14); but there is no verse or passage in the Bible that I can find that condemns disbelief in the Triune nature of our Lord. While I believe that the Bible teaches this doctrine; and if one is aware of the verses that teach it so clearly, to disregard or deny them would be to deny Christ, who is the Word: if someone is unaware of the verses that teach it and are still developing their theology, the Lord is not going to condemn them for their lack of knowledge (as long as they are seeking accurate knowledge); but He looks at their heart: and if they love Him, they are known by Him (1 Corinthians 8:3).
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    amadeus likes this.
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