True meanings of: God's wrath; Not knowing the day or the hour;

[Truth7t7]

I agree. But Luke 21:25-28 and Matthew 24:39-31 seem to be talking only about the return of Christ, which makes those verses stand out like a sore thumb in each gospel against the context of all the surrounding verses before and after them, because Luke 21:20-24 is clearly talking about A.D 70, and likewise with Matthew 24:15-21.

SO the fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse can't be an either/or thing. It precludes neither A.D 70, nor the end of our Age, but includes both.

Truth7t7, just in case you've run out out of opening words for your reply, I'll lend you some (you've handed enough of them to me already):

You are in error ..

I Strongly Disagree, The Entire Chapters Of Matthew 24 & Luke 21 are dedicated to the "Future" second coming and resurrection,

Your claim Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD & Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation took place in 70AD is a Preterist fairytale

 

[Truth7t7]

The race "Caucasian" are the peoples of the old "House of Israel" who went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled throughout western Europe, and colonized elsewhere around the world. They are the Christian nations. These are people who represent the “woman” who brought forth the manchild, Jesus Christ, and Satan is after us Christians. So the “woman” is me and you and anyone who professes to be a Christian. Remember that Gentiles who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ have been grafted in and are part of the tree of Israel. And so, we Christians will be the target of this flood of lies and deception that will be coming from Satan and his locust army.

jb

Sounds like the teachings of (Anglo Israelism) (British Israelism) putting the white caucasian race as Gods chosen?

To claim white caucasian's represent the christian nations on earth is a bit out in left field dont ya think?

Revelation 7:9-10KJV
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

 

[Heart2Soul]

How is it that so many people claim to have the revelation knowledge of what and when events will take place?
In my study of Revelation there is one place that John was told not to write what the 7 thunders spoke....they are sealed until the appointed time and at this time the mystery of God will be revealed...
“And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.”
— Revelation 10:4 (KJV)
What is significant about the seven thunders and why are we forbidden to know what they said?
What is plain to know is that ALL...100%....of prophesy must come to pass which was written by the prophets of old testament and Jesus.
Jesus quotes Daniel and said these things must come to pass but the end is not yet....
Matthew 24 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
⁸ All these are the beginning of sorrows.
⁹ Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
¹⁰ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
¹¹ And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
¹² And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
¹³ But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

It is obvious that Jesus is referring to a future event or He would have said the time is at hand.

 

[jessiblue]

Sounds like the teachings of (Anglo Israelism) (British Israelism) putting the white caucasian race as Gods chosen?

To claim white caucasian's represent the christian nations on earth is a bit out in left field dont ya think?

Revelation 7:9-10KJV
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Christians are from all nations and creeds. Read my post again, carefully this time. Or do you think Christians are not of every nation and creed?
jb

 

[Truth7t7]

Christians are from all nations and creeds. Read my post again, carefully this time. Or do you think Christians are not of every nation and creed?
jb

I read your post very carefully, it claims caucasian's are the christian nations, it's that simple, will you now back peddle

Keraz believes as you, are you friends for the (Anglo/British Israelist) cause?

jessiblue said: ↑
"The race "Caucasian" are the peoples of the old "House of Israel" who went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled throughout western Europe, and colonized elsewhere around the world. They are the Christian nations."

To claim white caucasian's represent the christian nations on earth is a bit out in left field dont ya think?

Revelation 7:9-10KJV
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

 

[jessiblue]

I read your post very carefully, it claims caucasian's are the christian nations, it's that simple, will you now back peddle

Keraz believes as you, are you friends for the (Anglo/British Israelist) cause?

jessiblue said: ↑
The race "Caucasian" are the peoples of the old "House of Israel" who went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled throughout western Europe, and colonized elsewhere around the world. They are the Christian nations.

To claim white caucasian's represent the christian nations on earth is a bit out in left field dont ya think?

Revelation 7:9-10KJV
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

I truly have no idea what you’re insinuating here. Any Christian is the “woman” in Revelation 13… from all nations all over the world. Get it?

Revelation 12:13

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Now, what about this "Not knowing the day or the hour"?

This verse, the pre-trib rapture thinkers deduce (and it's not easy to fault them. There seems to be a lot behind their reasoning!) means that the rapture must happen before all the hoopla of the Great Tribulation (be it at the beginning or the middle of the last 7-year week identified by Daniel 9:24-27) based on the following thought process:

Actually, it is easy to fault Pre-Tribbers for reading their views into that verse because

1. They intentionally cherry-pick passages that seem to support their belief
2. They ignore Christ's own words in Matt. 24 where He specifically said the gathering won't take place until AFTER the Tribulation

The problem with Pre-Tribbers isn't that they are simply being mistaken about what a passage says. The core of their theology lies in the fact that they don't want to entertain any notion of having to endure through suffering. They think God would never make His followers experience hardship for 3.5 years, even though the Bible clearly shows the opposite is true.

 

[NewMusic]

All men who died without faith will spend eternity in the lake of fire! However the lake is not the wrath of God!

Revelation 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

context is key and the word in greek is also key. there are several words translated in English as wrath. Only two things in the NT are called wrath (coming from God) HIs anger with the lost asnd the tribulation period!

Why did you bother to respond to my post when you did not read it?

Somehow you chose to skip over the verse I posted that contradicts your thought.

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Now tell me that is not the Lake of Fire. hmmm?

And I demonstrated that the pre-tribbers lean to a false premise that I explained in my post regarding their interpretation of the wrath of God with the 7 last plagues juxtaposed with the past 6000 years of sinners who were "lucky" enough (sarcasm intended) to have died already (before the last mere 3½ years).

But you were unable to follow, or just chose to not read my post?

 

[NewMusic]

@NewMusic IMO the reason there is so much confusion about this is firstly because many saints don't understand the difference between tribulation and wrath.

WRATH & JUDGMENT vs TRIBULATION ACCORDING TO THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS​

WRATH
God's wrath has been poured out upon people and nations over the course of human history, but it has not necessarily been poured out upon the whole world in each case (for example: Exodus 15:3-7).

JUDGMENT
God's wrath being poured out upon a people is always a judgement, since it is always produced by God’s burning anger (thymós in the Greek; chârôn in the Hebrew), but it’s not always a final judgement. A final judgement came upon Babylon when the wrath of God came upon the city, but a final judgement did not come upon Jerusalem when the wrath of God came upon the city (in the day Jerusalem was destroyed by the the armies of Babylon): Jeremiah 50:13

FINAL JUDGMENT
The first time in the Bible that we read about humanity being finally judged is in the account of the flood in Genesis, when only the elect (Noah and his family) were saved. The last time we read about humanity being finally judged is in the Revelation, where we read about fire coming down from heaven and destroying the armies of the rebellious nations who had surrounded the camp of the saints (Revelation 20:9).

TRIBULATION
(i) Tribulation is merely a word which describes the experience of humans, whether they be Jews or Gentiles, believers or unbelievers; and there is no "once-off" experience of tribulation.

(ii) A period of tribulation being experienced by any people may or may not be what they are experiencing as a result of God's wrath, (for example, the tribulation that Christians experienced under the hand of Nero was not as a result of God's wrath coming upon them, nor was the tribulation Israel experienced under the hand of Pharaoh in Egypt),

but the plagues were being experienced by the Egyptians as a result of God's wrath, in much the same way as the seven last plagues will be experienced by those "who had the mark of the beast, and on those who worshiped his image"

TRIBULATION IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
With the exception of Romans 2:9 and 2 Thessalonians 1:6, every single reference to tribulation in the New Testament is talking about tribulation as the experience of the saints, i.e of those who believe in Christ (unless Matthew 24:21, which talks about great tribulation, is a third exception to the rule and is speaking about the great tribulation which was faced by the Jews in A.D 70).

GREAT TRIBULATION
There are three times (only three times) in the New Testament where the Greek word mégas (great) is used as an adjective to describe the intensity of the thlîpsis (tribulation): Matthew 24:21; Revelation 2:22; and Revelation 7:14.

Two of them are OBVIOUSLY talking about great tribulation as the experience of the saints (Revelation 2:22 and Revelation 7:14).

SAVED FROM WRATH, NOT FROM THE TRIBULATION OF THE SAINTS
The beast of Revelation 13 will make war against the saints and overcome them (Revelation 13:7)

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5
8 But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Luke 21 (talking about the wrath of God to come)
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts are weighed down with headaches and drinking and anxieties of this life; and that day should suddenly come on you;
35 for it shall come as a snare on all those sitting on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch therefore, praying in every season that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things which shall occur, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 3 The wrath of God is being called "the hour of temptation" in this verse
10 Because you have kept the word of My patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

It's talking about being saved from God's wrath, not from tribulation. The New Testament, like the entire Bible, makes a clear distinction between wrath and tribulation.

Note: The entire "Pre-tribulation rapture" idea is based on conflating tribulation and great tribulation with God's wrath. "The great tribulation" that the New Testament is talking about in the Revelation is a prophesied experience of saints at the hand of the beast in the day he makes war against them and overcomes them, which will not be a tribulation being experienced by the saints as a result of God's wrath coming upon them, because the saints are saved from God's wrath.

Actually, Jeremiah 50 and 51 never occurred. And from the reading of them, it's painfully obvious that it is not talking about ancient Babylon. It's talking about "Daughter of Babylon" which is the present day "Mystery Babylon". Compare the language of the two Jeremiah chapters with identical language used in Revelation 18. And there are other statements (plural) that are impossible to apply to Ancient Babylon (such as 51:13, 26), but as I already said, Jeremiah is prophesying about "Daughter of Babylon" which is the modern Mystery Babylon.

I read your post. It's not helpful, but let me ask you a simple question so I can be clear on your position:

You said the saints during the last 3½ years are handed over to the beast, conquered, and killed, but are not receiving God's wrath (or plagues) from Revelation 16? Is that what you said?

 

[NewMusic]

Isn't the above the same church Paul was writing to when he said,

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that I told you these things when I was still with you?

Which Temple? This temple:

The son of perdition and the Tabernacle of God

Who are you writing to and why? You're just posting ramblings in my thread that have nothing to do with anything that I discussed.

And let me teach you something about writing. You need to put your thesis in the 1st paragraph, and then use the remaining paragraphs to prove your thesis. College English 101

Nobody knows what your thesis is, and you just post numerous bible passages that nobody wants to read because they don't know what it is they are supposed to gather from those readings.

If you say, "My position is thus, and here is a verse or verses to support my position", or "NewMusic's position is x y z, which I disagree with and here's why," then everybody can read and assess.

 

[Zao is life]

Actually, Jeremiah 50 and 51 never occurred. And from the reading of them, it's painfully obvious that it is not talking about ancient Babylon. It's talking about "Daughter of Babylon" which is the present day "Mystery Babylon". Compare the language of the two Jeremiah chapters with identical language used in Revelation 18. And there are other statements (plural) that are impossible to apply to Ancient Babylon (such as 51:13, 26), but as I already said, Jeremiah is prophesying about "Daughter of Babylon" which is the modern Mystery Babylon.

I read your post. It's not helpful, but let me ask you a simple question so I can be clear on your position:

You said the saints during the last 3½ years are handed over to the beast, conquered, and killed, but are not receiving God's wrath (or plagues) from Revelation 16? Is that what you said?

No more than God's people were receiving Egypt's plagues when they were being persecuted by that beast (Pharaoh).

I'm sorry you don't find my post helpful. The post was about the clear distinction the Bible makes between judgment as a result of God's wrath on one hand, and tribulation on the other hand. Tribulation is a word which describes the experience of humans. It's obvious that when God's wrath comes upon a people or nation, they will experience that as great tribulation - but tribulation is also experienced by God's people at the hand of others, and as my post points out, in the entire New Testament only 2 of all the verses talking about tribulation, affliction etc are not talking about tribulation as the experience of Christians.

If you don't see it or don't want to see it then obviously my post will not be helpful to you.

 

[Zao is life]

Who are you writing to and why? You're just posting ramblings in my thread that have nothing to do with anything that I discussed.

And let me teach you something about writing. You need to put your thesis in the 1st paragraph, and then use the remaining paragraphs to prove your thesis. College English 101

Nobody knows what your thesis is, and you just post numerous bible passages that nobody wants to read because they don't know what it is they are supposed to gather from those readings.

If you say, "My position is thus, and here is a verse or verses to support my position", or "NewMusic's position is x y z, which I disagree with and here's why," then everybody can read and assess.

OK you will have your audience (not sure how much of an audience you have). But now there's one less.

Your rudeness makes it obvious you don't like the fact that what I've said is applicable to what you were saying and where you indicated you want to go, and at least one person could see that in my post because it received at least one like.

One less person in your audience. Don't have time for nonsense mixed with rudeness,

Let me teach you something: Continue with that sort of rude response to non-rude replies to your posts and you'll lose all the audience you thought you had, one by one. Bye.

 

[NewMusic]

No more than God's people were receiving Egypt's plagues when they were being persecuted by that beast (Pharaoh).

So you presume that God does the same thing all the time, and that because the plagues that came upon the Egyptians but not upon the Jews at that time, you assume the same thing will happen FOR the saints during the Great Tribulation.

There's nothing at all in scripture to substantiate that belief. Jesus did not say He would spare His followers from tribulation or peril or torture. Quite the opposite.

You cannot give any documentation where God says His people will be spared any of the problems during the Plagues (bowls of wrath). You have that belief, but you're relying on old case history and presuming that God intends to replicate His position again.

It's like saying "Hey, Samson was given incredible strength via his long hair, and we know that if we don't cut our hair, we will have the same supernatural strength."

Or

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did not waver in their faith and commitment to God, and God rescued them from the fire, so we know that God will do the same for the saints when the bowls of wrath are released, even though we know that God did not tell us anything like this, nor give any hint that we should not concern ourselves about these things.

But Jesus actually said the opposite, and you did in fact acknowledge that to some degree. You acknowledged that the saints would be conquered, imprisoned, and beheaded during the last 3½ years, but somehow.... somehow they will not experience the plagues that come upon the whole world:

2nd Bowl - Sea became like the blood of a corpse, and every living thing died that was in the sea.
3rd Bowl - The rivers and fountains of water became blood
4th Bowl - Sun scorches men with fire/fierce heat.
7th Bowl - Great hailstones, heavy as hundredweight

Those are not going to affect the saints you think.

So the saints are conquered, tortured, imprisoned, beaten, beheaded, but ... but won't have to endure any of those plagues I just listed. Thank God, because fierce heat is so much nastier and horrible than being tortured and beheaded, imprisoned with no food or clean water, isolation that cause people to go insane. So glad the saints do not have to endure the difficulty of finding water to drink from a river, when they are not being given water while in prison.

 

[Enoch111]

Meanwhile, there are a couple of things that Pre-Trib believers hang a lot of their conclusions on based on a deduction that they misunderstand.

I will address this *misunderstanding* of yours after you have posted what you wish to post. As to "based upon deduction" since when has that been a bad thing? If Christians cannot connect the dots after studying their Bibles, then they are very poor students.

 

[NewMusic]

I will address this *misunderstanding* of yours after you have posted what you wish to post. As to "based upon deduction" since when has that been a bad thing? If Christians cannot connect the dots after studying their Bibles, then they are very poor students.

I did not criticize the "power of deduction." Why do you think that? In that same post, after I supplied your positions which I acknowledged seem sensible (do you recall my stating such?), then supplied further scriptures that would seem to contradict those positions, and then I, myself, used deductive powers to arrive at a better answer, along with quoting the true Wrath of God as spoken by the angel in Revelation 14 which emphatically states is the Lake of Fire.

I think it went something like, "Do you really believe that past 6000 years of wicked people escaped the wrath of God, since you believe the wrath of God is experiencing the last 3½ years known as the Great Tribulation (the 7 bowls of plagues/wrath)?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why did you bother to respond to my post when you did not read it?

Somehow you chose to skip over the verse I posted that contradicts your thought.

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Now tell me that is not the Lake of Fire. hmmm?

And I demonstrated that the pre-tribbers lean to a false premise that I explained in my post regarding their interpretation of the wrath of God with the 7 last plagues juxtaposed with the past 6000 years of sinners who were "lucky" enough (sarcasm intended) to have died already (before the last mere 3½ years).

But you were unable to follow, or just chose to not read my post?

Well part B is the lake of fire, but part A is not. this is a compound sentence and it is describing the consequences that one will have for taking the mark.

1. Thjey will experience the wrath of God (the final torments of the tribulation.
2. AND they will suffer forever in the lake of fire.

these are tow separate punishment's to be handed out.

And as all the lost are currently in the place of torments awaiting to be cast into the lake of fire. I do not think that was "lucky" for them.

 

[Davy]

Not this thread, but a different one I will create later tonight, will outline clearly the true teaching of Christ regarding the TIMING of this thing called the "rapture". Look for it in a few hours from now.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of things that Pre-Trib believers hang a lot of their conclusions on based on a deduction that they misunderstand. I will post a couple of those now.

First a sample of verses using the word wrath:

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

1Thess 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Thess 5:10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

Now from those verses, and a few others that are similar, and the fact that there are 7 bowls of wrath identified in Revelation chapter 16, it's easy to conclude (if we had nothing else to go by) that somehow the saints must not be here on earth during the last 3½ years known as the Great Tribulation. And we know that those 7 bowls of wrath transpire during the last 3½ years because at the 1st bowl of wrath this is written:

Revelation 16:2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

NOTE: Clearly, this first plague (or bowl of wrath) will not occur on the saints BECAUSE they obviously will refuse the mark of the beast. So the saints escape this first "wrath" or plague of God.

That is obviously at the start of the last 3½ years because we are told in Revelation 13 that the false prophet (known as the 2nd beast of Revelation 13, also commonly called the anti-christ though that is not his proper title. His proper title is "the false prophet".) along with the 7-headed beast w/10 horns organization are granted full authority over the entire globe for 42 months and the mandate of the mark of the beast, too. Read:

Revelation 13:5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.

And regardless of your position on the timing of the rapture (pre, mid, post) everybody is in agreement that what brings an end to those 42 months of the Satanic system is the return of Jesus Christ.

Now those deductions the pre-tribbers make are sensible, if there were not some other verses to help make better clarity of it all. So now we have these:

Revelation 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

This verse in 12:12 tells us that the devil's wrath will also be occurring on the earth in the end days.

So God's wrath and the devil's wrath at the same time?

Hmmmm... interesting.

Then we have

Revelation 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Now that is clear as day. We are told in no uncertain terms that the wrath of God is the lake of fire!

So what do we make of the 7 bowls of wrath during the Great Tribulation?

Well, we are also told to interpret those particular wraths as plagues. This from chapter 15 which precedes chapter 16, i.e. the bowls of wrath. Read:

Revelation 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.

So up to this point, it would seem that there is conflicting evidence on the subject on the wrath of God. And how do we interpret the verses at the top of this page which says that the saved will escape the wrath of God, but the wicked will not be spared?

Easy. With more comprehensive bible knowledge now outlined on the subject (above), we can now use logic/deduction, along with a couple more verses to illustrate.

* Do you really think that all the evil and wicked men of the past 6000 years have escaped the wrath of God because they died before the Great Tribulation???

Please think on those words. Really. Read that point again and think about it.

The Great Tribulation only lasts a mere 3½ years. As a percentage of man's history, that is only 3.5 divided by 6000 which equals .0005833333, or .0583% of all history of man. So if you think the wrath of God is the Great Tribulation, then basically you believe that ALL THE WICKED MEN since Cain killed Abel and throughout all history (and let us not forget those who murdered the prophets, those who murdered Jesus and spit on Him, those who burned the Christians alive, or fed them to hungry lions, or the evil Spanish inquisition, Stalin, Mao, Castro, or just plain rapists, etc.),, get a free pass and do not suffer God's wrath. Because they died before the great tribulation. Is that what you really believe?

You can see immediately that such an interpretation is bogus.

No, all evil, unrepented men and women throughout history will indeed suffer the wrath of God, and since almost all men and women (in excess of 99% of all humanity since Adam) did not experience the near future Great Tribulation, we know that the true meaning of escaping the wrath of God (as the opening verses I pasted above) means the righteous escape the Lake of Fire, not the plagues of Revelation 16.

= = = = = = =

All that confusion goes away with study in God's Old Testament prophets along with The New Testament Books. You can't just pull out a few verses in Revelation or The Gospel Books and think you've got all the info you need for a proper interpretation. Afterall, the "day of the Lord" event was mentioned a lot in the OT prophets, and it's timing is obvious there too, along with who it will be upon, and even how that not all the wicked are destroyed on that day.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

If you think the woman [Israel] are the Jews, It will be almost impossible for you to understand many things, for "Israel" is the offspring also of the ten tribes that were scattered. Yet today they exist in large part as the Christian nations of the world. The prophet Hosea identified them:

Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured not numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, `Ye are not My People,' there it shall be said unto them, `Ye are the sons of the living
God.' "

Hosea is calling attention to the time of the end, to the house of Israel in the end times and how they will be remembered in Europe, America or where ever those nations are established. There this house of “Israel” will not consider themselves as Israel, but as Gentile nations, and they will call themselves "sons of the living God.” Jesus Christ is the "living God" and those that are sons of God are called Christians. This could not be the Jews under any condition for they do not consider Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

The race "Caucasian" are the peoples of the old "House of Israel" who went over the Caucasus Mountains and settled throughout western Europe, and colonized elsewhere around the world. They are the Christian nations. These are people who represent the “woman” who brought forth the manchild, Jesus Christ, and Satan is after us Christians. So the “woman” is me and you and anyone who professes to be a Christian. Remember that Gentiles who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ have been grafted in and are part of the tree of Israel. And so, we Christians will be the target of this flood of lies and deception that will be coming from Satan and his locust army.

jb

Not really accurate. There are lots of born again Jews. I was friends with one years ago that pastors a church now. My reading of scripture suggests that there was always a faithful remnant and it was some of these that became the first church at the first pentecost. There's even some thousands in Israel (but the orthodox generally don't recognize them anymore.) To this day some Jewish households disown or treat family members who turn to Christ as dead. Yet some always do.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Isaiah 27:4 has God saying "Fury is not in me". Some bible versions have "wrath is not in me", but the literal version I checked goes with "fury."
In human terms we associate wrath with fury, but with God wrath is an expression of holiness and divine justice, not wild anger. The wrath of God is spoken of repeatedly in scripture, but always as a response to sin and willful transgression. Typically in scripture the work of God's wrath is the work of angels or men. Creatures of wrath store up wrath for themselves, but they are also instruments of wrath.
For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim,
He will be angry as in the Valley of Gibeon—
That He may do His work, His awesome work,
And bring to pass His act, His unusual act.
22 Now therefore, do not be mockers,
Lest your bonds be made strong;
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts,
A destruction determined even upon the whole earth. Isaiah 28:21-22
The day of God's wrath is called His unusual act, because it runs contrary to His character: "God is love"
Outbursts of wrath are identified by scripture as works of the flesh, so clearly the wrath of God is nothing like the wrath of man, but does employ it.

 

[Davy]

Sounds like the teachings of (Anglo Israelism) (British Israelism) putting the white caucasian race as Gods chosen?

To claim white caucasian's represent the christian nations on earth is a bit out in left field dont ya think?

Revelation 7:9-10KJV
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

So those of the 'seed' of Israel of Jacob's offspring were NOT... of just one race???

You might want to back off on this one, as political correctness is the attitude of the day with wanting to make the original seed of Jacob's children as if they were made up of all the races of man.


The meaning of the word "bastard" in the Hebrew actually means one of mixed race (mamzer)...

Deut 23:2
2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
KJV