True Repentance:

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H. Richard

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I believe that true repentance is necessary for the child of God. But that repentance is not a ritual that is done when they think they have sinned. It is a humble attitude that a person knows the need for Jesus’ work on the cross to save them from their sinful condition. I believe in a repentant attitude, an attitude of continually acknowledging, to God, that the sins of the flesh are always present in the mind and they are powerless to stop sinning in the flesh just as Paul said in Romans 7.

Having said the above I must state that, to some, repentance seems to means that they perform a ritual of repentance. I do not believe that knowing you have committed a sin and then pulling down your get out of sin repentance card is true repentance. It ignores the fact that while a person is living in sinful flesh they will sin. A person sins in their minds all the time.

I believe true repentance is as indicated above. Some seen to have a different opinion and they are welcome to it. But that does not mean I have to share their opinion OR that they have to share mine.

IMHO (In my honest opinion), to the religious mind, repenting of sins is something that a person does, at some time or other, to ask for forgiveness for a sin they think they have committed. I say it this way because, for them, they must pick a time and go to God in a prayer of words and ask for forgiveness for that sin. They do it only when they think they have done something wrong. For the rest of their time they rationalize that they do not sin and therefore do not have to repent.

True repentance "IS" a "CONSTANT ATTITUDE" of the heart and is not an action that is done at some place or time. --- It is constantly acknowledging (admitting to God) that you are a sinful person in the flesh and that you need His forgiveness, the need for God, who paid for your sins, to save you from your sinful nature in the flesh. -- It is a constant humble walk with God (the Holy Spirit that lives in your heart) in honesty, without deceit. -- To be exact it is and attitude of the heart and it is not a ritual that you do at some place or time.

1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.

Ps 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
(NKJ)

Deceit = dishonesty / a person saying they have no sin is being dishonest (deceitful) with God. Therefore having a constant honest attitude of acknowledging your sinful nature to God and placing your faith, trust, confidence, and hope in God's work on the cross to save you from your sinful nature is true repentance. A person that does not acknowledge his/her sins (sinful nature) is being dishonest with God and will feel no need to have an constant attitude of repentance. IMHO they are like the Pharisee below.

Luke 18:11-14
11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(NKJ)\

The tax collector was repenting, he was sorrowful, contrite, remorseful, because of his sinfulness. But that does not mean he stopped being a sinful person or a tax collector.
 

FHII

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I like the bit about the tax collector. The Bibles says God was repented for making man.... But he didn't stop making them either!

To say repentance is constant is slightly different from my take. It seems to me it is utterly senseless to try to repent from all your sins. You've got to remember them all to do so. But it is 100% effective to repent and ask forgiveness for being a sinner. That will cover past present and future.
 

justaname

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Interestingly Paul says something about his struggle with sin from chapter 7 in chapter 8 of Romans...

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Paul places an obligation to live by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the body. Sanctification. Here Paul is giving a work for us to do, and a good one at that.

Are we being led by the Spirit heeding His voice, the Shepherd calling to His sheep, or will we prove to be of a different fold following the voice of death? I pray for the former for all who read this.

H. Richard,

Your quote:
1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.


This statement postulated from the bolded section takes a leap I do not care to follow. What Paul gives us in Scripture (Romans 8:12-14) far outshines the bleak picture you paint of helplessness. And here is more of His encouragement:

15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
 

mjrhealth

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What is repentance

μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Its to change ones mind. Remeber the prodgal son, he realised he was doing something stupid repented, changed his mind, went to his father to ask for forgiveness, never got to open his mouth, and his faher was laying out the best for his son had realised his folishnesss. It is no different with God, "God i am a screw up, do what you must", one can change ones mind and still mess up, thats why we have grace, thats why Jesus died for us, because we are not perfect and cannot perfect ourselves, to think one can is foolishness and all the flesh, " look at me God look at what i did." Jesus has already "done it". leave the works to Him. if ones is living in fear than one has not accepted the grace of God
 

H. Richard

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justaname said:
Interestingly Paul says something about his struggle with sin from chapter 7 in chapter 8 of Romans...

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Paul places an obligation to live by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the body. Sanctification. Here Paul is giving a work for us to do, and a good one at that.

Are we being led by the Spirit heeding His voice, the Shepherd calling to His sheep, or will we prove to be of a different fold following the voice of death? I pray for the former for all who read this.

H. Richard,

Your quote:
1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.


This statement postulated from the bolded section takes a leap I do not care to follow. What Paul gives us in Scripture (Romans 8:12-14) far outshines the bleak picture you paint of helplessness. And here is more of His encouragement:

15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 7:21-8:4
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Free from Indwelling Sin
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
NKJV

What do you think verses 8:1-2 are saying? Can't you see that walking in the flesh is being self-righteous by a person's works. I have been set free from my sinful flesh and place no confidence in my flesh to be good. My confidence is in Jesus' work on the cross therefore I am walking in the Spirit.

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. In

Verse 24 asks a question that MUST be answered by a person. Who, indeed, saves a person from their sinful flesh? Verse 25 answers that question and it is the same answer I have been claiming on the forums. It certainly isn't a man's/women's works that will save him/her.

I have been set free of the sins of my flesh and I will not go back under a works religion. I thank Jesus for my salvation and to Him goes all the glory.

Those that wish to go back under the law are not free from the law of sin and death. The law condemns. It is God's grace that saves all who trust in God.
 

H. Richard

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FHII said:
I like the bit about the tax collector. The Bibles says God was repented for making man.... But he didn't stop making them either!

To say repentance is constant is slightly different from my take. It seems to me it is utterly senseless to try to repent from all your sins. You've got to remember them all to do so. But it is 100% effective to repent and ask forgiveness for being a sinner. That will cover past present and future.
To me repentance is an attitude. The attitude is the same as the tax collectors. According to the scriptures the tax collector humbled himself and God exalted him for it. A true child of God is humble and knows that if it weren't for Jesus' work on the cross they would have no claim of salvation. Self-righteous people are like the Pharisee thinking that God will admire them for their works..
 

FHII

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H. Richard said:
To me repentance is an attitude. The attitude is the same as the tax collectors. According to the scriptures the tax collector humbled himself and God exalted him for it. A true child of God is humble and knows that if it weren't for Jesus' work on the cross they would have no claim of salvation. Self-righteous people are like the Pharisee thinking that God will admire them for their works..
I'll mull on that for a while... But on the surface it does seem to make sense.
 

justaname

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H. Richard said:
Rom 7:21-8:4
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Free from Indwelling Sin
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
NKJV

What do you think verses 8:1-2 are saying? Can't you see that walking in the flesh is being self-righteous by a person's works. I have been set free from my sinful flesh and place no confidence in my flesh to be good. My confidence is in Jesus' work on the cross therefore I am walking in the Spirit.

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. In

Verse 24 asks a question that MUST be answered by a person. Who, indeed, saves a person from their sinful flesh? Verse 25 answers that question and it is the same answer I have been claiming on the forums. It certainly isn't a man's/women's works that will save him/her.

I have been set free of the sins of my flesh and I will not go back under a works religion. I thank Jesus for my salvation and to Him goes all the glory.

Those that wish to go back under the law are not free from the law of sin and death. The law condemns. It is God's grace that saves all who trust in God.
You have come with that definition of walking in the flesh without warrant. Paul's entire context is sin (coveting). So walking in the flesh has nothing to do with self righteousness other than self righteousness in itself is a sin.

Then you do not mention Romans 8:3-5 that defines Romans 8:1-2.

3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. - Romans 8:3-5

Notice here the word things (things of the flesh; things of the Spirit) is plural.
Then to the verse I posted...

For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. - Romans 8:13

Let me single out the word deeds. Notice again it is in the plural. What you suggest is Paul is talking about one deed (self righteousness). This is a misinterpretation.

Walking is the Spirit is putting to death the deeds (plural) of the body. If you follow the flesh disagreeing with the Spirit you are following the flesh and you will die, and I would question if the Spirit is truly in you.

I agree that repentance is a continual attitude. That attitude is of complete reliance on the shed blood of Jesus Christ for our justification. And the attitude is also a complete abhorrence of sin that placed Him on the cross for our behalf. How can the child of God continue in that which the Spirt hates? We do not, we war with the members of our body to beat them into submission to the Spirit. We are not under the Law rather we are submitted to the Spirit. And what does Paul say about the Spirit?

For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, - Romans 7:22

Here Paul agrees with the law of God. Then for a new elementary teaching Paul says this in Galatians.

17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. - Galatians 5:17-26

Contemplate verse 21-25.

Shall we be enslaved to the flesh keeping in step with the flesh in weakness. Or shall we keep in step with the Spirit through the power of the Spirit?
 

justaname

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This also in Galatians...

8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. - Galatians 6:8-10

Paul has already described what it is to sow to the flesh and sow to rhe Spirit earlier in the epistle. (5:19-23) Self-righteousness didn't make either list.

We do not place confidence in our flesh to good, we submit our flesh to the desires of the Spirit thereby sowing to the Spirit and not to the flesh.