U.S. abandoning Israel?Posted: December 29, 20061:00 a.m. EasternBy Hal Lindsey--------------------------------------------------------------------------© 2006 The recommendations issued by the Iraq Study Group and the way they are being received suggest a U.S. shift in a new direction – in favor of the Muslims. I believe the factor that most influenced this change is the presence of co-chairmen James Baker and Lee Hamilton on the panel. Their report accepts the Saudi contention that the conflicts in the Middle East are really the result of Israel not giving the Palestinians what they're asking for. (Column continues below) You know, this would be humorous if it were not so serious. All Israel is asking for, in order to give the Palestinians what they want, is for them to stop attacking them. And I believe it was Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's intention, before he had the tragic stroke, to withdraw from Gaza to demonstrate that statehood wouldn't bring peace. And it hasn't. Instead, it brought an avalanche of highly trained terrorists with lethal weapons into Gaza and a non-stop barrage of outgoing missiles into civilian population centers in Israel. I believe it may well have been Prime Minister Sharon's plan to say, "Now in the light of that, why should we give them control over the West Bank and pull out and give them a state there when that didn't bring peace in Gaza. So why do we expect it to bring peace in the West Bank?" It forces the conclusion, and I'm sure that this was his strategic intention, that the Palestinians don't want a Palestinian state beside Israel. They want a Palestinian state instead of Israel. In Palestinian schools, children learn there is no such thing as a state of Israel. It's just a "Zionist entity." None of their maps show the existence of Israel. All of Israel is labeled "Palestine." So with the U.S. administration now actively pressing for Palestinian statehood, it is forcing Israel into an utterly indefensible position. If we force Israel to accept a state dedicated to its destruction in its very heartland, it will find itself with no sanctuary. With highly-trained terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons coming from the West Bank and east Jerusalem, the heartland of Israel is almost indefensible now. The escalation of terror will grow exponentially, as it has grown in Gaza. I believe the United States needs to take very careful heed to what God said. I believe God has blessed the United States, for reason, because of America's unflagging support for Israel. But if we back away, then God's promise to them will fall on us. He said in Genesis 12:3, to the descendants of Abraham, "I will bless those who bless you and those who curse you, I will curse." Let's all pray for wisdom for America's leaders before America feels the weight of that curse.
U.S. Abandoning Israel?
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Here is the problem with this outlook:1) In the words of a Jewish Talk show host "The Isreal of today is a socialist state, not a Jewish state! It was founded by socialist, run by socialists! If Moses were in charge of Isreal today he would end up executing half it's population!" This is not the Isreal of Moses, Joshua, David, and Solomon.Even the Isreal of Herod would be an imporovement. To blindly support this godless socialist state is not fulfilling Genisis 12:3. God has his plans for this dispobedient state and the fact that the IDF, even with the best wonder weapons they could buy from us was sent packing the same way their forefathers were sent packing from AI is proof. 2) The Zionists in 1948 were no better than the PLO, Hamas, and thier current enemies are today. Many a British soldier was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered along with many Arabs in order to bring about the current nation. 3) The Isrealis themselves don't know what they want. If they are going to wash thier habds of the West Bank & Gaza then actually do it! Not pull out and leave a toehold in the region. Not "Give the land to them but forbid them to declare a state. Either give it to them, build the wall and stay on thier side or pull of another Joshua and take it all. Right now, they make concessions but are still doing half baked measures. Until the Isrealis make up thier mind, there is noting we can do to help them. 3) The Gospel does not rest on Zionism. The Lord Himself sent fourth Titus to destroy the Temple in order to show the world that the Old Covenant is dead.The Jews will only come back into Gods fold when the sacle falls from thier eyes and they realise that tyhe one they pierced was indeed the Messiah. It is written that his will happen and when the Jews believe that the one their forefathers sent to Pilate was the Messiah as surley as they believe in Moses Oh what a day of whailing, crying, and trearing of robes that will be! Until then, supporting that godless socialist state and telling them to kill "Thiose evil Muslims" with out wonder weapons will accomplish nothing. 4)God also made a covant with the sones & Daughters of Ishmael. They too wil one day come to the light so I wouldn't be cheering on our military industrial complex to wipe them out with our wonder weapons built with money we don't really have too loudly.
The Isrealis themselves don't know what they want. If they are going to wash thier habds of the West Bank & Gaza then actually do it! Not pull out and leave a toehold in the region. Not "Give the land to them but forbid them to declare a state. Either give it to them, build the wall and stay on thier side or pull of another Joshua and take it all. Right now, they make concessions but are still doing half baked measures. Until the Isrealis make up thier mind, there is noting we can do to help them.
One of the issues to consider about Israel pulling back Bernie..is the continual and very persistant badgering by the United States,and all the pressure from the UN. the tollerance of Israel, is in part due to the conflicts involved in securing and maintaining a presence in the West bank,or gaza.
One of the issues to consider about Israel pulling back Bernie..is the continual and very persistant badgering by the United States,and all the pressure from the UN. the tollerance of Israel, is in part due to the conflicts involved in securing and maintaining a presence in the West bank,or gaza.
(BernieEOD;5738)
Here is the problem with this outlook:1) In the words of a Jewish Talk show host "The Isreal of today is a socialist state, not a Jewish state! It was founded by socialist, run by socialists! If Moses were in charge of Isreal today he would end up executing half it's population!" This is not the Isreal of Moses, Joshua, David, and Solomon.Even the Isreal of Herod would be an imporovement. To blindly support this godless socialist state is not fulfilling Genisis 12:3. God has his plans for this dispobedient state and the fact that the IDF, even with the best wonder weapons they could buy from us was sent packing the same way their forefathers were sent packing from AI is proof. 2) The Zionists in 1948 were no better than the PLO, Hamas, and thier current enemies are today. Many a British soldier was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered along with many Arabs in order to bring about the current nation. 3) The Isrealis themselves don't know what they want. If they are going to wash thier habds of the West Bank & Gaza then actually do it! Not pull out and leave a toehold in the region. Not "Give the land to them but forbid them to declare a state. Either give it to them, build the wall and stay on thier side or pull of another Joshua and take it all. Right now, they make concessions but are still doing half baked measures. Until the Isrealis make up thier mind, there is noting we can do to help them. 3) The Gospel does not rest on Zionism. The Lord Himself sent fourth Titus to destroy the Temple in order to show the world that the Old Covenant is dead.The Jews will only come back into Gods fold when the sacle falls from thier eyes and they realise that tyhe one they pierced was indeed the Messiah. It is written that his will happen and when the Jews believe that the one their forefathers sent to Pilate was the Messiah as surley as they believe in Moses Oh what a day of whailing, crying, and trearing of robes that will be! Until then, supporting that godless socialist state and telling them to kill "Thiose evil Muslims" with out wonder weapons will accomplish nothing. 4)God also made a covant with the sones & Daughters of Ishmael. They too wil one day come to the light so I wouldn't be cheering on our military industrial complex to wipe them out with our wonder weapons built with money we don't really have too loudly.
Bernie did you happen to notice the author of the above article?Although I do not agree with Mr. Lindsey on all his views or of Rapture. There is little argument that he is well respected and probably one of the foremost experts on the Middle East and how it fits into Bible Prophecy.He has over 30 years of study on it and many books to his credit. You on the other hand have shown little to no understanding of this subjectI would recommend you read some of his books but you have also made it quite clear you have no desire to learn anything about the subject.So before this thread turns into another of your spiels about the world according to Bernie.we have two choices here listen to Bernie or the expert on the subject
Here is the problem with this outlook:1) In the words of a Jewish Talk show host "The Isreal of today is a socialist state, not a Jewish state! It was founded by socialist, run by socialists! If Moses were in charge of Isreal today he would end up executing half it's population!" This is not the Isreal of Moses, Joshua, David, and Solomon.Even the Isreal of Herod would be an imporovement. To blindly support this godless socialist state is not fulfilling Genisis 12:3. God has his plans for this dispobedient state and the fact that the IDF, even with the best wonder weapons they could buy from us was sent packing the same way their forefathers were sent packing from AI is proof. 2) The Zionists in 1948 were no better than the PLO, Hamas, and thier current enemies are today. Many a British soldier was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered along with many Arabs in order to bring about the current nation. 3) The Isrealis themselves don't know what they want. If they are going to wash thier habds of the West Bank & Gaza then actually do it! Not pull out and leave a toehold in the region. Not "Give the land to them but forbid them to declare a state. Either give it to them, build the wall and stay on thier side or pull of another Joshua and take it all. Right now, they make concessions but are still doing half baked measures. Until the Isrealis make up thier mind, there is noting we can do to help them. 3) The Gospel does not rest on Zionism. The Lord Himself sent fourth Titus to destroy the Temple in order to show the world that the Old Covenant is dead.The Jews will only come back into Gods fold when the sacle falls from thier eyes and they realise that tyhe one they pierced was indeed the Messiah. It is written that his will happen and when the Jews believe that the one their forefathers sent to Pilate was the Messiah as surley as they believe in Moses Oh what a day of whailing, crying, and trearing of robes that will be! Until then, supporting that godless socialist state and telling them to kill "Thiose evil Muslims" with out wonder weapons will accomplish nothing. 4)God also made a covant with the sones & Daughters of Ishmael. They too wil one day come to the light so I wouldn't be cheering on our military industrial complex to wipe them out with our wonder weapons built with money we don't really have too loudly.
Bernie did you happen to notice the author of the above article?Although I do not agree with Mr. Lindsey on all his views or of Rapture. There is little argument that he is well respected and probably one of the foremost experts on the Middle East and how it fits into Bible Prophecy.He has over 30 years of study on it and many books to his credit. You on the other hand have shown little to no understanding of this subjectI would recommend you read some of his books but you have also made it quite clear you have no desire to learn anything about the subject.So before this thread turns into another of your spiels about the world according to Bernie.we have two choices here listen to Bernie or the expert on the subject
Hal Lindsay is just another false teacher.He claims that he predicted the rise of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was already a major power when he was born. He predicted that the Anti Christ would be the Premier of the Sovier Union....He was wrong.He now predicts that "Our Christian president Bush" is going to kill the worlds evil people and that Christ is returning on Air Force 1. I give him no credibility.It is you who has based your entire ministry on "Thos evil Muslims vs us good Christians" And that somehow, giving that godless socialist stae we now call Isreal all the wonder weapons we have and giving them a free hand to kill all those "Evil Muslims" is God's will. I contend that this is not so.
It is you who has based your entire ministry on "Thos evil Muslims vs us good Christians" And that somehow, giving that godless socialist stae we now call Isreal all the wonder weapons we have and giving them a free hand to kill all those "Evil Muslims" is God's will. I contend that this is not so.
Am I detecting undertones of Anti-Semitism, that seems to be a rather harsh reply for a person who has his hope of salvation in a Jewish Savior,A jewish king, and a jewish promise of a jewish Messiah.
Am I detecting undertones of Anti-Semitism, that seems to be a rather harsh reply for a person who has his hope of salvation in a Jewish Savior,A jewish king, and a jewish promise of a jewish Messiah.
(snaggs;5739)
One of the issues to consider about Israel pulling back Bernie..is the continual and very persistant badgering by the United States,and all the pressure from the UN. the tollerance of Israel, is in part due to the conflicts involved in securing and maintaining a presence in the West bank,or gaza.
Anothr problem is that WE are just as inconsistant. When a liberal is in charge, we cajole Irsreal to surrender to the Arabs. When a neo con is in charge, we give them more of our wonder weapons and tell them to calim all the land and kill "Those evil Muslims". And then we have a hodge podge of everything in between.So, what do we know for sure?1) The Isreal that will prevail will have no resemblence to the secualr socialist state we see today.2) The land promised to Abraham includes not only all of the West Bank & Gaza, but ALL of Lebanon, Jordan, and a good chunk of Syria. All of this will be restored to Isreal but in God's time and in God's way. Not in our time with our wonder weapons.3) The sons & daughters of Ishmael are also under God's protection so it is not wise for us to curse them either.4) Between the secualr socialist atate and the Isreal that Christ himself wil rule the world from, there will be turulent times for Isreal. We know the final outcome and the rough road between here and there but we do not know the details. Once again, our wonder weapons and our blessing in thei use of them is not the way to the final destination.Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
One of the issues to consider about Israel pulling back Bernie..is the continual and very persistant badgering by the United States,and all the pressure from the UN. the tollerance of Israel, is in part due to the conflicts involved in securing and maintaining a presence in the West bank,or gaza.
Anothr problem is that WE are just as inconsistant. When a liberal is in charge, we cajole Irsreal to surrender to the Arabs. When a neo con is in charge, we give them more of our wonder weapons and tell them to calim all the land and kill "Those evil Muslims". And then we have a hodge podge of everything in between.So, what do we know for sure?1) The Isreal that will prevail will have no resemblence to the secualr socialist state we see today.2) The land promised to Abraham includes not only all of the West Bank & Gaza, but ALL of Lebanon, Jordan, and a good chunk of Syria. All of this will be restored to Isreal but in God's time and in God's way. Not in our time with our wonder weapons.3) The sons & daughters of Ishmael are also under God's protection so it is not wise for us to curse them either.4) Between the secualr socialist atate and the Isreal that Christ himself wil rule the world from, there will be turulent times for Isreal. We know the final outcome and the rough road between here and there but we do not know the details. Once again, our wonder weapons and our blessing in thei use of them is not the way to the final destination.Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
(kriss;5745)
You prove my point
Your entire ministry is "Those eveil Muslims and how we need to use our wonder weapons to kill them"Not so.
You prove my point
Your entire ministry is "Those eveil Muslims and how we need to use our wonder weapons to kill them"Not so.
(kriss;5745)
You prove my point
And every time you spout about "Those evil Muslims"Every time you boast about "Us good Christians and we need to kill them"Every time you claim that secualr socialist state of isreal as it exists today is soooo good and how they need to use the wonder weapons we give them to kill all those "Evil Muslims"I will present a rebuttal.For the Kingdom of Heaven is not going to arrive on the wings of Air Force 1Our wonder weapons are not going to fix anything
You prove my point
And every time you spout about "Those evil Muslims"Every time you boast about "Us good Christians and we need to kill them"Every time you claim that secualr socialist state of isreal as it exists today is soooo good and how they need to use the wonder weapons we give them to kill all those "Evil Muslims"I will present a rebuttal.For the Kingdom of Heaven is not going to arrive on the wings of Air Force 1Our wonder weapons are not going to fix anything
That's your interpretation of what I think I have only said that radical Islam is the enemy of the Christian and Jew all else are your words your imagination your predigests. And are not worthy of a reply
(BernieEOD;5747)
Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
and apparently that won't happen until Jesus sets up His kingdom when he returns to rule from Isreal in the near future (hopefully)
Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
and apparently that won't happen until Jesus sets up His kingdom when he returns to rule from Isreal in the near future (hopefully)
It is the time of the Gentiles Israel will remain blinded until the time of the Gentiles has ended and God turns his attention back to the Jews which could be at any moment this is all part of Gods plan and if the U.S. turns its back on Israel it will be turning its back on God and will suffer the consequences as I have stated before Christianity has its roots in Judaism and just as an apple tree can't become a orange tree when it grows out of the ground we can not escape the fact that Christianity and Judicium are two branches of the same tree
(BernieEOD;5747)
Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
You seem to be forgetting that the blindness upon Israel is so that salvation could come to you and to the rest of us..are you really that foolish to not see that all things are in motions that are beyond political control, beyond government influence, there is a precise destination that requires the present conditions to progress into a ripened readiness for prophetic fulfillment.
Conclusion: The surrent nation of Isreal is in a state of disobedience and until the scale falls from their eyes and they realise that the one their forefathers pierced was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to have pains and problems. They key event is not when Isreal uses the wonder weapons we give them to kill off "Thos evil Muslims". It is when the Jews finally ralise that the one they pierced was indeed the Messiah.
You seem to be forgetting that the blindness upon Israel is so that salvation could come to you and to the rest of us..are you really that foolish to not see that all things are in motions that are beyond political control, beyond government influence, there is a precise destination that requires the present conditions to progress into a ripened readiness for prophetic fulfillment.
(snaggs;5753)
You seem to be forgetting that the blindness upon Israel is so that salvation could come to you and to the rest of us..are you really that foolish to not see that all things are in motions that are beyond political control, beyond government influence, there is a precise destination that requires the present conditions to progress into a ripened readiness for prophetic fulfillment.
Very well said snaggs
You seem to be forgetting that the blindness upon Israel is so that salvation could come to you and to the rest of us..are you really that foolish to not see that all things are in motions that are beyond political control, beyond government influence, there is a precise destination that requires the present conditions to progress into a ripened readiness for prophetic fulfillment.
Very well said snaggs
And every time you spout about "Those evil Muslims"Every time you boast about "Us good Christians and we need to kill them"Every time you claim that secualr socialist state of isreal as it exists today is soooo good and how they need to use the wonder weapons we give them to kill all those "Evil Muslims"I will present a rebuttal.For the Kingdom of Heaven is not going to arrive on the wings of Air Force 1Our wonder weapons are not going to fix anything
Bernie, I know this point will probably be lost to you at this point but no one here is sanctioning war on the Muslims as a collective group. I know I speak for Kriss when I say this and you're blatantly attempting to put words in several mouths in this regard. Making comments in regards to harrasing our staff will not get you anywhere. From your statements in the self defense thread, I know that you're not the "let's all be friends and hold hands with criminals" bleeding heart Christian that the modern church has indoctrinated. There has to be a line drawn and oftentimes the solution truly does lie down the middle. The simple fact of the matter is that there are people out there that hate us for our religion and where we stand. They'd hate us regardless of involvement in world affairs and regardless of oil. There were wars long before oil was useful and guess who made the first incursion into the other's territory? This is where I apparently have to provide a disclaimer so that someone doesn't misunderstand me because of your rants. I do not lump all Muslims in this grouping. All Muslims are not bad and not all of them desire to kill us. That being said, the United States of America is not representative of my faith. It won't stand before me on the day of judgment to plead my case and won't affect my salvation. However, the US is in there here and the now. It functions in the same way that you provide for yourself because God has given you the means to do so. When you want food, do you pray to God to make the food magically appear on your table or do you pray for God's blessing to go out and be able to get it with his help? A blessed nation, all faults included, is not necessarily a bad thing. Israel rebelled time and again but God's people were still there. America rebels time and again but God's people are still here. If you want to make a host of inferences in your world from what someone says that's your choice. However, that choice will not be made when it borders on harrasment of our staff and gross lies about what someone says.
Bernie, I know this point will probably be lost to you at this point but no one here is sanctioning war on the Muslims as a collective group. I know I speak for Kriss when I say this and you're blatantly attempting to put words in several mouths in this regard. Making comments in regards to harrasing our staff will not get you anywhere. From your statements in the self defense thread, I know that you're not the "let's all be friends and hold hands with criminals" bleeding heart Christian that the modern church has indoctrinated. There has to be a line drawn and oftentimes the solution truly does lie down the middle. The simple fact of the matter is that there are people out there that hate us for our religion and where we stand. They'd hate us regardless of involvement in world affairs and regardless of oil. There were wars long before oil was useful and guess who made the first incursion into the other's territory? This is where I apparently have to provide a disclaimer so that someone doesn't misunderstand me because of your rants. I do not lump all Muslims in this grouping. All Muslims are not bad and not all of them desire to kill us. That being said, the United States of America is not representative of my faith. It won't stand before me on the day of judgment to plead my case and won't affect my salvation. However, the US is in there here and the now. It functions in the same way that you provide for yourself because God has given you the means to do so. When you want food, do you pray to God to make the food magically appear on your table or do you pray for God's blessing to go out and be able to get it with his help? A blessed nation, all faults included, is not necessarily a bad thing. Israel rebelled time and again but God's people were still there. America rebels time and again but God's people are still here. If you want to make a host of inferences in your world from what someone says that's your choice. However, that choice will not be made when it borders on harrasment of our staff and gross lies about what someone says.
(kriss;5750)
That's your interpretation of what I think I have only said that radical Islam is the enemy of the Christian and Jew all else are your words your imagination your predigests. And are not worthy of a reply
The battle has already been won. Nobody can prevail against Christ's Kingdom, no enemy can prevail. Christ does not need our wonder weapons to bomb his enemies into submission. Islam has no power over us.Our problem is not Islamists trying to convert us but the fact that those who call themselves Christian are the same baby killing drug addicts as their so called godless left counterparts.
That's your interpretation of what I think I have only said that radical Islam is the enemy of the Christian and Jew all else are your words your imagination your predigests. And are not worthy of a reply
The battle has already been won. Nobody can prevail against Christ's Kingdom, no enemy can prevail. Christ does not need our wonder weapons to bomb his enemies into submission. Islam has no power over us.Our problem is not Islamists trying to convert us but the fact that those who call themselves Christian are the same baby killing drug addicts as their so called godless left counterparts.
Once again, to rebuke Isreal is not to abonbdon Isreal.To give Isreal all the wonder weapons we have and tell them to kill all those "Evil Muslims and to continue in thier godless socialist state is not blessing them.
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