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If he believes in a jesus that goes about rebuking folks who REMIND folks of the DIRE NEED to believe
the doctrine of calvin is dead bringing death unto all who partake of it .
DRAW . and i dont mean with pencil and paper . SOMEONE draws us to CHRIST . and it aint our flesh either .
watch out and beware . for many , maybe even him , BELIEVETH , that One does not have to BELIEVE ON CHRIST
ITS an attack against the gospel . examine it .
Notice ITS GOD who draws us . draws us to what , UNBELIEF or BELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST .
You condition salvation on something man does, thats works, dont have to be the Law for it to be works
That is not true. Ephesians 2:8 doesn't say that grace is a gift either, but grace is most definitely, by definition, a gift. The point is that those who claim that Ephesians says that faith is a gift are wrong. I presented the bases for proclaiming it is wrong.
It appears that you haunt all manner of Christian forums saying the same things over and over like a mynah bird. If TULIP were correct, why would you care what non-Calvinists believe or teach? It makes absolutely no logical sense to me. If I were one of the elect but lived my life as a non-Calvinist, wouldn't I still be one of the elect? If I weren't one of the elect, what difference would it make if I were Calvinist or non-Calvinist? What difference would it make to my Christian walk if I never gave a thought to Calvinism or Arminianism? I can't see how the embarrassing, non-edifying mental masturbation that characterizes discussions such as this accomplish anything.
Please re-read my post. I was not discussing whether grace is a gift. I was discussing whether faith is a gift -- and specifically whether Ephesians 2:8 says so. I agree that "those who claim that Ephesians says that faith is a gift are wrong." I disagree that you should have gone further and declared that therefore it follows that faith is not a gift. That doesn't follow at all. Just because Ephesians is no support for the notion doesn't mean it isn't true.
Where does scripture ever say that mankind does not have a free will ability to choose?
A computer does not have the ability to make the choice to obey or disobey any of God's commands. Actually, a computer doesn't have the ability to make choices at all. It simply responds according to the program in operation at the time. If anything it is more similar to a dumb animal responding instinctly.
That is not true. First, the Bible nowhere specifically discusses and defines “free will.” Our conclusions on this subject are inferences and implications from related biblical teachings. Second, there is no biblical reason to think that God’s freedom, however it is defined, can be used as a model or analogy for human free will as we possess it during this earthly lifetime. Third, “free will” actually must be defined in two different ways, both of which are libertarian and both of which are valid.
The very idea that God would give to mankind commandment, which have consequences, in some cases very dire consequences, for failure to obey those commandments and then not even give mankind the ability to obey those commandments makes God out to be nothing more than a cruel evil tyrant.Below are just a few verses which clearly teach that there are divine constraints upon mankind's "will":
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.
Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.
Deut 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
In this age, God's Word teaches that only those people who are blessed from the foundation of the world will be saved:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
2Tim 1:9 who did save us, and did call with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages…
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Paul was even asked about why God still finds fault with mankind given the truth that God's "will" rules over our "will":
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore, hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
How can you read these scriptures which I have posted above and come away with the conclusion that mankind has a free will to determine their own destiny?
You go back and re-read my post. I was responding to the post by ritajanice which posted Ephesians 2 as proof that faith was a gift.
Well, I've re-read it -- and you explicitly said to @Ritajuice "Your view that faith is a gift is simply wrong! ! !" You properly called her out on concluding the contrary from Ephesians, but you drew an unqualified faith-is-not-a-gift conclusion (with three exclamation marks). So, I pointed out that you needed to qualify your declaration as being unsupported by Ephesians, not as being untrue for that reason alone.
