Unforgiveness and fellowship with God

[BarneyFife]

Yet Jesus taught the need for repentance.

He didn't teach the need for people to forgive others on the condition of repentance. True repentance is virtually absent from someone that would require forgiveness by a human being 490 times (Matthew 18:22—which is just a symbolic number for "endlessly").


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[Windmillcharge]

He didn't teach the need for people to forgive others on the condition of repentance. True repentance is virtually absent from someone that would require forgiveness by a human being 490 times (Matthew 18:22—which is just a symbolic number for "endlessly").


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The whole of the ot law is about repentance when offering sacrifices to God.
Like 17:3 if your brother sins against you, rebuke them and if they repent forgive them

Parable of two men went to the temple to pray. One boasted the other said God be merciful to me a sinner.
As has been discussed the unjust servant is about repentance and forgiveness.

Yet again Jesus on the cross, did not forgive his killers.

 

[BarneyFife]

The whole of the ot law is about repentance when offering sacrifices to God.
Like 17:3 if your brother sins against you, rebuke them and if they repent forgive them

Parable of two men went to the temple to pray. One boasted the other said God be merciful to me a sinner.
As has been discussed the unjust servant is about repentance and forgiveness.

Yet again Jesus on the cross, did not forgive his killers.

The whole of the Old Testament law is about the injustice and unforgiveness of rebellion and the justice and mercy of God.

Exodus 34
6And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”

But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, (Matthew 5:44)

Luke 23
33And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

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[Big Boy Johnson]

Yet Jesus taught the need for repentance.

But He never taught that... if one does you dirty and refuses to repent... it's OK to not forgive them.

That's the part that is confusing to those that can't read and understand the scriptures.

 

[Windmillcharge]

But He never taught that... if one does you dirty and refuses to repent... it's OK to not forgive them.

That's the part that is confusing to those that can't read and understand the scriptures. View attachment 41288

Luke17:3 if they repent forgive them.

 

[Windmillcharge]

He didn't teach the need for people to forgive others on the condition of repentance. True repentance is virtually absent from someone that would require forgiveness by a human being 490 times (Matthew 18:22—which is just a symbolic number

1 Samuel 15
22 But Samuel replied:​

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”
24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”

One example of how having a right spirit was very important.
It is not enough to go through the motions.
Google I hate your sacrifices and see how God rejects the empty offering with no spiritual reality.

Without repentance God does not forgive, without repentance we do not have to forgive.

 

[BarneyFife]

1 Samuel 15
22 But Samuel replied:​

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”
24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”

One example of how having a right spirit was very important.
It is not enough to go through the motions.
Google I hate your sacrifices and see how God rejects the empty offering with no spiritual reality.

Without repentance God does not forgive, without repentance we do not have to forgive.

Have you ever heard of common grace (as opposed to saving grace)?

Did you ever wonder why people don't keel over and die right after a sinful thought, expression, or action?

Everytime your heart beats it is, in a very real albeit virtual sense, singing "Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace..."

Your heart can't beat without forgiveness. It's not the kind of forgiveness that saves. It's unconscious, to you.

Nothing that supports even the temporal life of sinners, repentant or unrepentant, is afforded by anything less than the Calvary Event, friend.

Try to learn that forgiveness depends entirely upon the sacrifice of God's dear Son.

Eternal life depends on each man's appropriation of that sacrifice by a repentant response to that sacrifice.

Otherwise, good luck with playing God.


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[Big Boy Johnson]

Luke17:3 if they repent forgive them.

If you do not forgive them, then your sins will not be forgiven - Matthew 6:15

God forgives us in the same way we forgive others - Luke 11:1-4

We should all remember the teaching Jesus gave about the guy that refused to forgive his fellow servant after having been forgiven himself in Matthew 18:21-35

In this teaching Jesus says those refusing to forgive will be given over to the tormentors (demons).

So for those of you that refuse to forgive others because they have not yet repented... enjoy being tormented by demons as this will become your new reality along with your sins NOT being forgiven by the Lord.
<--- This guy will be moving in to your head!

 

[Windmillcharge]

If you do not forgive them, then your sins will not be forgiven - Matthew 6:15

God forgives us in the same way we forgive others - Luke 11:1-4

We should all remember the teaching Jesus gave about the guy that refused to forgive his fellow servant after having been forgiven himself in Matthew 18:21-35

In this teaching Jesus says those refusing to forgive will be given over to the tormentors (demons).

So for those of you that refuse to forgive others because they have not yet repented... enjoy being tormented by demons as this will become your new reality along with your sins NOT being forgiven by the Lord.
View attachment 41347<--- This guy will be moving in to your head! View attachment 41348

Yes if our offender has said " I am sorry " to us we must forgive them, no matter how many times they have offended against us.

If they do not repent we do not have to forgive them. We may do so if one closes to or one may imitate Jesus and pray for them and for oneself.

But the key remains the need for repentance.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes if our offender has said " I am sorry " to us we must forgive them, no matter how many times they have offended against us.

If they do not repent we do not have to forgive them. We may do so if one closes to or one may imitate Jesus and pray for them and for oneself.

But the key remains the need for repentance.

Who taught you this stuff?

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[Eternally Grateful]

If they do not repent we do not have to forgive them. We may do so if one closes to or one may imitate Jesus and pray for them and for oneself.

Where did you hear this?

 

[Ritajanice]

Also, thinking about the Fruits of the Spirit, a spirit of unforgiveness hinders regarding those.

How can you have a spirit of unforgiveness, if you have been Born Again of imperishable seed?

Where do you think your forgiveness towards others come from?

You can’t forgive in your own strength, only God can forgive others through us, only by his power can we let go of unforgivness , so, why would my fellowship be ruined with God, it wouldn’t because I can do NOTHING without the Holy Spirit..

I rest in him knowing that in his timing and in his strength my unforgiveness Of others, will eventually be forgiven, in his strength.....I have just come to that spiritual understanding..imo, belief and thoughts.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If they do not repent we do not have to forgive them

Then YOUR sins will not be forgiven... God is NOT mocked, you shall reap what you sow,

If you sown UN-forgiveness... then you shall reap UN-forgiveness.

Enjoy the results of your decision!

 

[Windmillcharge]

Who taught you this stuff?

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The bible.

Then YOUR sins will not be forgiven... God is NOT mocked, you shall reap what you sow,

If you sown UN-forgiveness... then you shall reap UN-forgiveness.

Enjoy the results of your decision! View attachment 41412

Strange how you do not read all I write, or understand the bible passages you quote.

Again the parable of the unjust servant. Matt 18:21-35
He is called into account by the king. He cannot pay his debts and on his repentance is forgiven. "A parable of how God forgives us."
The servant goes to an other servant who owes him and wants to be repaid. This servant promises to pay but the unjust servant will not forgive and has him thrown into prison.
Shocked by this his peers report him to the king who tells him.' You were shown mercy, so you should have shown mercy'

The point of the parable is that on repentance, both servants repented, there should be forgiveness.

It does not say forgive no matter what.

luke 13:1-5 repeats unless you repent you will perish.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Where did you hear this?

How does God forgive?
Does God forgive everybody?
Do all go to heaven?

Ever read the old testament law on sacrifice for sin? Have you ever read what God thought of a sacrifice offered by an unrepentant sinner?
read Isaiah 1:11-17

God expected sincerity when people worshipped him in the OT, ( he expects it now. )
There had to be repentance in order for a sacrifice for sin to be accepted, this runs throughout the bible.

Nowhere is there forgiveness without repentance.

As God has dealt with us so we deal with others, both in how we love. That is we love others totally without limit, do you?
We are to forgive in the same way that God forgave us, on repentance and without limit.

How do we deal with unrepentance? In the same way Jesus did on the cross by handing it All to God, that includes our feelings about it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How does God forgive?
Does God forgive everybody?
Do all go to heaven?

Ever read the old testament law on sacrifice for sin? Have you ever read what God thought of a sacrifice offered by an unrepentant sinner?
read Isaiah 1:11-17

God expected sincerity when people worshipped him in the OT, ( he expects it now. )
There had to be repentance in order for a sacrifice for sin to be accepted, this runs throughout the bible.

Nowhere is there forgiveness without repentance.

As God has dealt with us so we deal with others, both in how we love. That is we love others totally without limit, do you?
We are to forgive in the same way that God forgave us, on repentance and without limit.

How do we deal with unrepentance? In the same way Jesus did on the cross by handing it All to God, that includes our feelings about it.

Yes, let’s look at the OT sacrifice. So cursed were the children of Israel the only way to atonement was once a year a High priest had to sacrifice 5 animals. Who were without spot and blemish. So sever was his own sin that if he entered Gods presence without doing everything perfect as Moses commanded, he would die.

If he did everything right. The sin of the nation was forgiven for the past year and they started over.

The only problem was. This spilt blood could never take away sin. But my high priest, died once, and has become my permanent high priest making intercession forever On my behalf.

You’re right, we do have to repent. If we do not repent. We willnever have saving faith. We may have pseudo faith, or partial faith. But we will never be as the tax collector. Unable to even look up..

Those people who have not repented are not saved, and they will not be saved until the repent. They can be as good as they want.

But just like the law said. You better be perfect and do everything God commanded through Moses, Or when you enter the presence of God, You will die.

It is of Grace through faith. Or it is of works. And if it is of work. You better be perfect.

We must be born again, by looking to the cross in total faith and humility.. Not by looking at the cross and saying, hey thats a great place to start. Now I got this God, Thank you. I will prove to you how worthy I am.. When you do this, you just decieve yourself.. like the whole world does.

 

[Windmillcharge]

The sin of the nation was forgiven for the past year and they started over.

The only problem was. This spilt blood could never take away sin. But my high priest, died once, and has become my permanent high priest making intercession forever On my behalf.

You’re right, we do have to repent. If we do not repent. We willnever have saving faith. We may have pseudo faith, or partial faith. But we will never be as the tax collector. Unable to even look up..

Not just for the nation Lev 4:27-31 deals with the sins committed by ordinary people, to be offered when they sinned.
But this thread isn't about saving repentance but about forgiveness.
The tax collector knew he was a sinners and humbly bowed asking for forgiveness. Jesus commented that he went home justified. Luke 18:9-14

As he humbled himself and obtain forgiveness so those who offend against us, if they want our forgiveness need to say sorry.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If they do not repent we do not have to forgive them.

And if one refuses to forgive... their sins will not be forgiven and they will experiences demonic activity in their lives.

Some folks jut have to learn the hard way., Enjoy!

It does not say forgive no matter what.

Those who stand before the Lord expecting their sins to be forgiven but refusing to forgive others of their sins... will be shocked to discover... their sins won't be forgiven due to their hypocrisy.

God is not mocked, we will reap what we sow... those that sow un-forgiveness will reap un-forgiveness.

 

[Windmillcharge]

And if one refuses to forgive... their sins will not be forgiven and they will experiences demonic activity in their lives.

Yet Jesus did not forgive his killers.
Stephen did not forgive his killers.
Are you saying they both face God's judgement for not forgiving?

At no point have I said or implied that one is to refuse to forgive an offender.

I maintain that the bible teaches that repentance is needed if one wants to be forgiven, this is from God or from people.
I have consistently said that where an offender does not repent, then we hand the situation, the offender and our feelings in the matter over to God to deal with and that we should pray intelligently for the offender.

How is this behaviour unbiblical and demonic?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yet Jesus did not forgive his killers.
Stephen did not forgive his killers.

They actually did and even prayed to the Father to not hold their sins against them

Do you believe Jesus is a liar???

Mark 11:25,26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Yeah so, feel free to not forgive others... and see what happens to you when you croak someday

How is this behaviour unbiblical and demonic?

Because it's the devil claiming we do not reap what we sow... that's mocking God.