Unforgiveness and fellowship with God

[Windmillcharge]

So we need to repent to God every time we sin to get resaved?

No just to accept his forgiveness.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Gods grace is given to those who receive him

If they have repented.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No just to accept his forgiveness.

But if we are not forgiven. Are we not dead again?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If they have repented.

Who is going to Recieve him that has not repented?

 

[Windmillcharge]

Who is going to Recieve him that has not repented?

It is as Jesus said in John 3, those who have not believed in him are already condemned.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is as Jesus said in John 3, those who have not believed in him are already condemned.

Yes. So to come to faith (belief) do they not have to repent to believe?

 

[Windmillcharge]

Yes. So to come to faith (belief) do they not have to repent to believe?

Of course and because God requires repentance in order to apply salvation, forgiveness of sins etc etc,
How do we dare to expect Christians to do what God does not do.
That is to expect Christians to forgive those who have not repented.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course and because God requires repentance in order to apply salvation, forgiveness of sins etc etc,
How do we dare to expect Christians to do what God does not do.
That is to expect Christians to forgive those who have not repented.

For salvation, I would say God still loves them, and this love is a light that leads them to him.

for someone who sins against us. i would say Peter was told to forgive his brother 70 X 7 times..

 

[Windmillcharge]

For salvation, I would say God still loves them, and this love is a light that leads them to him.

for someone who sins against us. i would say Peter was told to forgive his brother 70 X 7 times..

And we are back adding to what scripture teaches.
God forgives those who repent.
That is taught All through the bible.

It is our willingness to hold on to a grudge or a slight etc that is the cause of the many, many instructions to forgive.
How do you fit luke17:3 into your understanding of forgiveness?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And we are back adding to what scripture teaches.
God forgives those who repent.
That is taught All through the bible.

It is our willingness to hold on to a grudge or a slight etc that is the cause of the many, many instructions to forgive.
How do you fit luke17:3 into your understanding of forgiveness?

once again.

The bible says repent and believe.

Once a person has done that they are saved.

Jesus told Peter 70 X 7. Did Jesus lie? And say do what he will not do?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The new testament is built upon the old testament, it does not remove it or invalidate it.

That's not what God's Word says...

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

God's moral law, which has been around since the beginning, is always applicable.

But the rules and requirements of the law of Moses are not in the New Testament since the law has been changed due to the fact Jesus is the new High Priest

In the New Testament we live under the Law of Christ, aka the Law of Liberty, aka Law of the Spirit of Life....

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!

2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. (*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)

Colossians 3:6-10
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Those that do not put on the New Man and quit walking after the flesh, the wrath of God comes upon them for their disobedience because God is NOT mocked, if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.

Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Windmillcharge]

God's moral law, which has been around since the beginning, is always applicable.

But the rules and requirements of the law of Moses are not in the New Testament since the law has been changed due to the fact Jesus is the new High Priest

Without the old testament there is no new testament, as you have confirmed.
Yes many laws applicable to the kingdom of Israel and to Judaism do not apply to the rest of the world.
Yes the moral laws apply to every one, including Christians who should naturally obey/follow them due to the indwelling holy spirit.

But most of all there is the biblical principle that repentance always precedes forgiveness.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yes the moral laws apply to every one, including Christians who should naturally obey/follow them due to the indwelling holy spirit.

And... Saturday sabbath is not one of them.

We know this to be true thru the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15 as Saturday sabbath was not deemed to be a requirement by the Apostles as they were led by the Holy Ghost.

Unless.... someone wants to claim the Lord totally forgot to have the Holy Ghost include Saturday sabbath

 

[Writer]

There is a little more to it than that,

First off; Jesus on the cross said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". We also learn that Jesus forgave the whole world on the cross, since all have sinned, Jesus died for all, and having died for all, forgave all. HOWEVER, having said that, Jesus commands us and demands repentance, not a lip service repentance, but a heart felt repentance BEFORE one can be saved. We must repent in a way that shows God that we sorrow in the way we lived our life, in a way that offended Him, and we ask Him to forgive us of our sins, while yet in our sins, and to cleanse us and ask Jesus to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The point is this. Forgiving someone does not have to be audible, nor does forgiving someone need to be shared or heard by anyone. If in your heart you have forgiven someone, than keep it there, in your heart. If and when that person asks you for forgiveness, he or she will immediately in your presence know it because you will say, I have already forgiven you, and now that you have received it, and it is come to pass, let us cast the matter as far as the east is from the west, and move on to a new relationship of friendship and trust.

One can not receive your forgiveness just because you forgave. You can be free from harboring bad feelings by forgiving someone, but that forgiveness is not complete if it is not received.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

let us cast the matter as far as the east is from the west, and move on to a new relationship of friendship and trust.

And sadly... the person you forgave that did you wrong CONTINUES doing you wrong and you have to se3parate from them so you are not constantly being walked on and abused.

Sure we are to forgive them but some bad actors need to be removed from one's life because they are servants of satan and if they remain in one's life they will continue to do satan's work which is to steal, kill, and destroy (John 10:10).

 

[Windmillcharge]

First off; Jesus on the cross said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". We also learn that Jesus forgave the whole world on the cross, since all have sinned, Jesus died for all, and having died for all, forgave all

Jesus did not forgive his killers. He handed them over to God the Father to see that justice was done.
Yes on the cross Jesus paid the penalty foe All our sins, but that does not equate to him forgiving All.

Forgiveness is conditional upon repentance.

We as imitators of Jesus follow his example freely forgiving those who repent and passing those who don't or won't over to God to deal with.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

We as imitators of Jesus follow his example freely forgiving those who repent and passing those who don't or won't over to God to deal with.

So if someone does you dirty and they refuse to repent... do you still forgive them?

If you do NOT forgive them then you are sowing un-forgiveness... and will reap un-forgiveness meaning your own sins will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(forgive us in the same way we forgive others)

Matthew 6:15
If ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Yes, let's make the decision to forgive others even as the Lord has forgiven us.

Colossians 3:13
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

If one refuses to forgive others sowing un-forgiveness, then they will reap un-forgiveness..... this is another proof text that OSAS is not a true biblical doctrine taught in God's Word

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

We should all remember the teaching Jesus gave about the guy that refused to forgive his fellow servant after having been forgiven himself in Matthew 18:21-35

In this teaching Jesus says those refusing to forgive will be given over to the tormentors (demons).

I've known numerous people over the years that were continually agitated and always troubled and when talking to them I'd ask if by chance had they been done wrong by someone in life.

And in each case they said yes somebody had done something bad to them... and they all said they refused to forgive them and would never forgive them.

This is why they live in a state of demonic oppression that can easily turn in to demonic possession that leads to their lives being destroyed with them dying and going to hell.

A word of caution... those refusing to forgive others may very well do some terrible thing to you too because they have demons controlling their lives!

 

[Windmillcharge]

if someone does you dirty and they refuse to repent... do you still forgive them?

It helps if you read what I write and also remember what scripture teaches.

I have consistently said when there is no repentance we copy Jesus and pray for the offender, pray for ourselves that the offender will change/be saved and that we are healed of bitterness etc.

Parable of the unjust servant.
Note when called into pay his unplayable debts he pleads for mercy, he repents, and is forgiven.
He goes to Nissan debtor to demand payment.
The servant pleads for mercy, he too repents, but the unjust servant does not forgive.

Try tovlearn forgiveness is dependant on repentance, then we asChristian Must forgive 77 x7 times or an infinite number of times.
But repentance comes first.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Try to learn forgiveness is dependent on repentance

No, if they do not repent... we need to still forgive them.

If we don't, then we reap what we sow which is... no forgiveness for us either.

Galatians 6:7 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Ain't no way around this one... those that claim there is are mocking God whether they know it or not!

 

[Windmillcharge]

No, if they do not repent... we need to still forgive them.

If we don't, then we reap what we sow which is... no forgiveness for us either.

Galatians 6:7 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Ain't no way around this one... those that claim there is are mocking God whether they know it or not!
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Yet Jesus taught the need for repentance.