United Methodists Lose 1M Members in a Single Day, Council of Bishops 'Grieves' Mass Exodus(After vote to allow gay clergy & ss unions)

[BlessedPeace]

That has been my argument all along. Jesus did not prejudge people…..he saw the good in them and he encouraged them to change course. Those who did, left their former ways and became Christians.…as Paul said in 1 Cor 6:9-11….
“Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.”

If that is what some of these people WERE, then becoming a Christian meant leaving ANY of that behavior behind and allowing the blood of Christ to cleanse them of their sin…..they were then no longer condemned by their former ways, but “washed clean”…..apparently there are some here who need to wash their hearts and stop condemning those who may well come to Christ if they are invited by Jesus to do so. Being homosexual is not a sin unless you practice homosexual acts, which God says is abhorrent. Some cannot tell the difference.

Jesus words in Matt 19:12 tell us why we shouldn’t judge…
“For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

One can make themselves “eunuchs” for the sake of being received into God’s Kingdom…..they sacrifice their own flesh so as to become clean in Gods eyes. Why would anyone deny them that opportunity when Jesus didn’t. We will be judged as we ourselves judge others.

I have no idea how anyone can twist my words to claim that I support homosexuality without repentance.
Paul made it clear that ALL IMMORAL SEX is sinful. Perhaps it was mentioning divorce and remarriage that struck a nerve….but Jesus was also clear about that too. There is only one ground for divorce and remarriage…..
Matt 19:9….Jesus’ words…..
“I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery.”

If your spouse did not commit sexual immorality with someone else, (sexual immorality doesn’t necessarily mean intercourse, but any sexual activity) then you are still married to them in God’s eyes and your remarriage is not valid. That makes you guilty of adultery…a sin that also bars you from the kingdom.

Are the ones pointing fingers equally guilty….I wonder?

Bars you that believe that from the kingdom.

Christians only sin that condemns them and is unforgivable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.


And Yeshua,who was God,does prejudge people. And before the foundation of the world.

Sin entered this world through one man. The first one. This means Sin pre existed the world too. Sincerely does not exist where there is no law of God.

Ergo,God is the author of Sin
Because , as he willed, He created His laws to be obeyed. Disobedience,non-compliance, is Sin.

Every name God wrote in His Lambs Book of Life before the foundation of this world belongs to those God predestined to His Salvation. Which means those He Saved.

As compared to those he did not. And before the foundation,creation,of the world.

This is true. If we discern God at His Word. Matthew 13

Many feel called. But God chooses few. Matthew 22.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I would say the same of any sinner, they have a weakness for some act of sin, but it is all sin. You cannot deny that as Gods Word lays it out...

Can you tell me where I denied what God’s word lays out? Or did you misread my post and judge my words on what you thought I said?
I pointed out only what God’s word said. God hates the sin…not the sinner who repents.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Bars you that believe that from the kingdom.

How can it, when it was what Jesus himself practiced? He was sent to the “lost sheep”, because they were lost in their sins, with no help from the appointed shepherds to change their ways…..All they got was condemnation. Jesus offered them hope and forgiveness. Do you offer them less?

Christians only sin that condemns them and is unforgivable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Have I argued against that?

And Yeshua,who was God,does prejudge people. And before the foundation of the world.

That is not true. No one is prejudged because that means God created mankind to sin. All the atrocious things that the human race commits are all his fault…..that it utter nonsense….
”before the foundation of the world” is not before the creation of the planet….”the world” there is “the world of mankind” descended from Adam.
Adam was created without defect, as was the angel who became satan….both abused their free will to plunge the human race into sin and death. Before “sin entered into the world” there was no death because death was the product of sin. (Rom 5:12)
If Adam had not joined his wife in rebellion, Christ would never have needed to come and rescue his children.
Do you understand what “redemption” is? I am beginning to think that not many do.

Sin entered this world through one man. The first one. This means Sin pre existed the world too.

No, it means that sin was a concept…an opposite to being sinless. Everything in creation has balance in an equal opposites…..we take them for granted every day…..in…out….up…down….forward…backwards….black…white…good…evil. Up until the first “sin” was committed, it was a concept, but it was not necessary for it to become a reality, if the humans had just obeyed their God.
“Knowing good and evil” was withheld from them as the only “opposites” that were placed exclusively in God’s own jurisdiction. The goodness of God compared to the evil that could exist without him, was a knowledge that was withheld from the humans for their own good. But because they were free willed, God had to allow their choice, but placed a very severe penalty for disobedience to dissuade them…….satan saw an opportunity to separate the humans from their Creator to fool them into worshipping him instead. There was no need for sin to ever become part of our lives….but once the ‘genie was out of the bottle’ there was no putting it back, so God allowed the devil free reign to prove his claim to be the better god to the human race. What has he proven beyond a shadow of doubt?….that he couldn’t rule his way out of a wet paper bag.

It was no hardship for the humans to remain obedient. They lived in paradise supplied with everything they needed to enjoy everlasting life. They had an assignment, to extend the borders of their paradise to encompass the whole world, which they were to “fill” with their children……imagine if they had not disobeyed and brought sin into the world, what an amazing life they would have had? No sin, no death, no crime or violence and no false worship, and best of all, there would have been no devil and his minions to create the disgusting world we now live in.

Ergo,God is the author of Sin
Because , as he willed, He created His laws to be obeyed. Disobedience,non-compliance, is Sin.

Yes….There was just one law…..and disobeying that command carried the death penalty. But no sin would have meant no death. God had made provision in the garden for the humans to enjoy everlasting life in their mortal flesh. So in the beginning, there was to be no old age, sickness or death to spoil their idyllic lives.

There were two trees in the garden that were not just for food. The TKGE, was off limits, but the other “tree of life” had no restriction until they had sinned….only then was access denied. (Gen 3:22-24)
Sinful humans would not be allowed to live forever.

Every name God wrote in His Lambs Book of Life before the foundation of this world belongs to those God predestined to His Salvation. Which means those He Saved.

Not so…..names are only written in the Lamb’s book of life when they have established a record of faithfulness in their lives…..why would God predestine some people to fail and others to succeed? What kind of loving God would do that? And if you believe in “hell” then your god is a fiend! I could never love such an unloving god who creates evil people only to punish them. You can’t be serious!

As compared to those he did not. And before the foundation,creation,of the world.

This is true. If we discern God at His Word. Matthew 13

If you have no idea what “the foundation of the world” means….then all that you build on that false premise will also be false.
“Kosmos” relates to “the world of mankind“ descended from Adam. There was no sin before it was committed. Satan was the first to rebel, but if the humans had remained obedient, then satan would have been dealt with behind the scenes and we would now be living in a global paradise enjoying all that God created for us to live wonderful lives, right here on earth…which is where he put us in the first place.
This is not a training ground for heaven…..and if all humans are already predestined for life or death….what is the point of living? Can you give me a logical explanation?

Many feel called. But God chooses few. Matthew 22.

I don’t think you understand what that means….If God has predestined everyone to either succeed or fail…why is there a need for “choosing” and what are they “chosen” for?

Do you have a big picture BP?

 

[PS95]

CBN News 6/7/24

United Methodists Lose 1M Members in a Single Day, Council of Bishops 'Grieves' Mass Exodus

The United Methodist Church Council of Bishops has issued a response to one of the largest exoduses from the denominatio

www2.cbn.com

A million members. That's inspiring. That people in one accord of protest would unite for change by leaving an institution that itself changed so to embrace Apostasy.


Hallelujah!
There is no such thing as a gay church.

It's terrible. I have a relative who attended United Methodist her entire life. Those opposed to practicing gay pastors etc stayed and fought against it, but I was told that they had been heavily infiltrated from the top down and had they no way to win.
Her church was left with barely anyone attending. I suppose that was the initial goal of the infiltration.
We need to pray for these people to find new church homes, as I understand this was very traumatic for them and many are choosing to just to go to online churches.
We need to have in-person fellowship!!

 

[Rockerduck]

Matthew 22:14 - For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It's terrible. I have a relative who attended United Methodist her entire life. Those opposed to practicing gay pastors etc stayed and fought against it, but I was told that they had been heavily infiltrated from the top down and had they no way to win.
Her church was left with barely anyone attending. I suppose that was the initial goal of the infiltration.
We need to pray for these people to find new church homes, as I understand this was very traumatic for them and many are choosing to just to go to online churches.
We need to have in-person fellowship!!

That's true here as well regarding my inlaws. they forght it in their Methodist Church and the numbers in the church have been falling away, most of the ones who still go are not going in regards Christ Jesus but for other reasons.
The Head of such have pointed out that they are interested more in regards young people now ? most are very old people who are activly involved in giving money and their time tho. but the Church has turned their backs more on helping out the very old, my very healthy 94yo and 92yo inlaws have said.

 

[PS95]

That's true here as well regarding my inlaws. they forght it in their Methodist Church and the numbers in the church have been falling away, most of the ones who still go are not going in regards Christ Jesus but for other reasons.
The Head of such have pointed out that they are interested more in regards young people now ? most are very old people who are activly involved in giving money and their time tho. but the Church has turned their backs more on helping out the very old, my very healthy 94yo and 92yo inlaws have said.

it's a complete disgrace. Same thing is also happening in the liberal branch of lutheran churches. The Good Lord knows who belongs to Him.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Forty years ago would we have witnessed such disgraceful things in the church? I don't think so.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matthew 22:14 - For many are called, but few are chosen.

Can you explain what you believe these terms mean?

Who are the “many” “called”? What are they ”called” for?

Who are the “few” “chosen”? What are they “chosen” for?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Can you explain what you believe these terms mean?

Who are the “many” “called”? What are they ”called” for?

Who are the “few” “chosen”? What are they “chosen” for?

It's scripture. Yeshua taught in parables so that not all would understand.

Only those to whom understanding was given could come to salvation.

The Lamb's Book of Eternal Life contains the names of those redeemed ones in Christ. God wrote it before Earth existed.

It's scripture.

 

[Rockerduck]

Can you explain what you believe these terms mean?

Who are the “many” “called”? What are they ”called” for?

Who are the “few” “chosen”? What are they “chosen” for?

Sure. God calls many people at church services, they know they are being called(chosen), to come down to the altar and accept Christ. Not only church services but anywhere they are convicted in some way. Last Sunday at my church a lady was looking uncomfortable and bothered. She had just watched a baptism at the service and got a strong pull by God. As soon as the service was over, she ran to the front and accepted Christ. Plenty feel this call and try to resist and many also are successful in resisting and refuse to be saved. Those are the ones that refuse to be chosen for salvation. God will also cause you to go to a particular church at the time to receive this invitation to salvation. It could happen in your bedroom reading the bible too.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

it's a complete disgrace. Same thing is also happening in the liberal branch of lutheran churches. The Good Lord knows who belongs to Him.

Yes it did, so true.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It's scripture. Yeshua taught in parables so that not all would understand.

True….those who got the meaning, understood what others didn’t….

Only those to whom understanding was given could come to salvation.

So, what made the difference?

The Lamb's Book of Eternal Life contains the names of those redeemed ones in Christ. God wrote it before Earth existed.

No, not before the Earth existed…..there is no predestination. How anyone can believe that God is that evil, escapes me. Sin did not exist before Adam was created.…..satan did not seduce the woman until after Adam and his wife were created, and told about the one command that they had to obey, under penalty of death.

You think God creates people who will never learn the truth and then punishes them for all eternity for something that isn’t their fault. That makes no sense. God derives no pleasure in the death of the wicked but wants them to repent…all have the same opportunity…it’s called free will.
Ezek 18:27-28…
”And when someone wicked turns away from the wickedness that he has committed and begins to do what is just and righteous, he will preserve his own life” 28 When he realizes and turns away from all the transgressions that he has committed, he will surely keep living. He will not die.”

If there was no free will, so that sinners could choose to turn their lives around, what would be the point of preaching? (Matt 24:14)

It's scripture.

Sorry…….Not even close.

 

[BlessedPeace]

John 10:28-30. “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

 

[BlessedPeace]

True….those who got the meaning, understood what others didn’t….

So, what made the difference?

No, not before the Earth existed…..there is no predestination.

There isn't?
All the prophecies in scripture and Revelation?

How anyone can believe that God is that evil, escapes me.

Isaiah 45

Sin did not exist before Adam was created.…..

By one man sin entered the world.

Sin did exist before Adam.
Lucifer sinned against God in Heaven.

This is why we are told sin entered the world. Because it existed already.

satan did not seduce the woman until after Adam and his wife were created, and told about the one command that they had to obey, under penalty of death.

Interesting how a fallen angel knew God's command regarding the forbidden fruit.

You think God creates people who will never learn the truth and then punishes them for all eternity for something that isn’t their fault. That makes no sense.

I know.
Hell isn't of God.

God derives no pleasure in the death of the wicked....

Really?
He slaughtered more people than did Satan. He drowned all life on earth save for those he let live. Salvation for eight.

but wants them to repent…all have the same opportunity…it’s called free will.

Proverbs 16:9
Not even the Disciples chose to follow Yeshua. Yeshua chose them.

Ezek 18:27-28…
”And when someone wicked turns away from the wickedness that he has committed and begins to do what is just and righteous, he will preserve his own life” 28 When he realizes and turns away from all the transgressions that he has committed, he will surely keep living. He will not die.”

If there was no free will, so that sinners could choose to turn their lives around, what would be the point of preaching? (Matt 24:14)

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Sorry…….Not even close.

Not true.

I'm not trying to change the mind that follows the Watchtower.

My intention is the Watchtower doesn't confuse the minds of new Christians here.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sure. God calls many people at church services, they know they are being called(chosen), to come down to the altar and accept Christ. Not only church services but anywhere they are convicted in some way.

Can you show me where that happened to anyone in the first century?

What did Jesus tell his disciples to do?
Matt 10: 11-14…
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”

This was not some emotional decision made without knowledge…..someone had to preach the Christian message to a person, and if the response was positive, they were to stay and teach that person what it meant to become a Christian….peace was then granted to both the household and the preacher, but if the message was rejected then they were to “shake the dust off their feet“, as a sign that these ones had rejected salvation.

Jesus’ command to preach in Matt 28:19-20, (the great commission) was to teach these ones ”all the things that [he had] commanded them”….so what brought a person to Christianity was not an emotional decision made on the spot, but a conscious decision to become a disciple of Christ in full knowledge of all that it entailed….it required knowledge.

Last Sunday at my church a lady was looking uncomfortable and bothered. She had just watched a baptism at the service and got a strong pull by God. As soon as the service was over, she ran to the front and accepted Christ. Plenty feel this call and try to resist and many also are successful in resisting and refuse to be saved. Those are the ones that refuse to be chosen for salvation. God will also cause you to go to a particular church at the time to receive this invitation to salvation. It could happen in your bedroom reading the bible too.

I would see that very differently….knowing how Jesus presented his message to the people, and how he taught the apostles to preach….there were no instantaneous “Christians”…..I see that on the same level as infant baptism….it is rather meaningless unless you have a knowledge of what is actually required of one who accepts Jesus as their savior….it requires some serious decisions….a complete change of lifestyle for many to become, and to remain obedient to the Christ for the rest of their lives….”faithful to death”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

There isn't?
All the prophecies in scripture and Revelation?

Do you understand the difference between foretelling an event and causing it?
God has foreknowledge of events in the future and he can predict them with great accuracy…it doesn’t mean that he caused them….he merely alerted those who needed to know, what was to take place so that they could understand the event as a part of the outworking of his purpose in creating us here on this beautiful jewel in space….we were given an assignment here and we have not carried it out yet….sin got in the way. But God’s first purpose will be fulfilled. (Isa 55:11)

Isaiah 45

God used Babylon to punish unfaithful Israel….but then the Medes and Persians under a king named Cyrus,
conquered mighty Babylon in one night by the means prophesied in Isa 45, with barely an arrow fired.
Prophesy is history written in advance. (Isa 46:10)

By one man sin entered the world.

Sin did exist before Adam.
Lucifer sinned against God in Heaven.

Sin was a concept, not a reality. Satan did not become “satan” until he tempted the woman in the garden to break God’s law. He sinned on earth not in heaven. He was there in the garden observing all that was going on, hatching his plan to take the humans away from God so that they would worship him instead.
God’s words addressed to the wicked King of Tyre are aimed directly at satan….unless you think that this King was in the garden of Eden? This one was “created” not born.

Ezek 28:13-15…
”In Eʹden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering, ruby, topaz and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx and jade; sapphire, turquoise and emerald; and of gold was the workmanship of your settings and your sockets in you. In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.. . . .Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor. Onto the earth I will throw you. Before kings I will set you, [for them] to look upon you.”

Even satan was created as a perfect and magnificent son of God…..“UNTIL” unrighteousness was found” in him.
Cherubs are not babies with wings as they are portrayed in Roman Catholic art…..they are the guardians in God’s heavenly arrangement……and satan was appointed as a guardian in Eden…..a position of responsibility that he abused.

This is why we are told sin entered the world. Because it existed already.

The possibility existed…..but no one “sinned” before satan offered the fruit to Eve……yet Adam was the one blamed for ‘sin entering into the world’……do you know why?

Interesting how a fallen angel knew God's command regarding the forbidden fruit.

He was there in the garden…of course he knew God’s command to Adam. He used it to seduce the woman into taking what God had claimed as his own property. Stealing from one’s Sovereign has always carried the death penalty.

I know.
Hell isn't of God.

Neither is predestination. I am not a Calvinist. Many Protestants do not believe in a literal hell….we don’t either, but we don’t believe in an immortal soul, which supposedly departs from the body at death…..there is nothing that goes to heaven or hell at the time of death. God determines who is resurrected and where they will live and what role they will play. He did not create this planet to be a training ground for heaven. Most Christians will not go heaven….but the chosen ones will……the “few” who will reign with Christ in his kingdom……yet a resurrection is promised for both the righteous and the unrighteous, called out of their graves on earth. (Acts 24:15; John 5:28-29)

Really?
He slaughtered more people than did Satan. He drowned all life on earth save for those he let live. Salvation for eight.

He has eliminated from existence many who were incorrigibly wicked in different eras….but he did not desire that outcome.
Did you not read Ezekiel 18:27-28?

2 Peter 3:9 conveys the same desire on God’s part…
”The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.“ (ESV)
He wants all to attain to repentance…..he does not desire that any should perish, but he will not withhold justice when it is demanded.

Proverbs 16:9

This is addressed to Israel, who were born into a covenant relationship with their God. A man may plan out what he wants to do, but an obedient one allows God to direct his steps.…every Jew knew that their God required exclusive devotion. (Exodus 20:3; Deut 6:4)

Not even the Disciples chose to follow Yeshua. Yeshua chose them.

Jesus chose his 12 apostles after a whole night in prayer with his Father….so it was’t just Jesus who chose them. He did not know which of the apostles would betray him until just a short time before it happened.
It says that satan entered into Judas and he conspired with the religious leaders to hand Jesus over to them for a price.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So, in among all those professing to be “Christians” who are those understanding the things of the spirit that are to be ‘spiritually discerned’? Who are the fools? Be careful who you point fingers at….

Not true.

I'm not trying to change the mind that follows the Watchtower.

The Watchtower is a legally established Bible society that prints Bibles and Bible literature. We are not the Watchtower. No one follows a printing establishment.

My intention is the Watchtower doesn't confuse the minds of new Christians here.

What if it’s you who are wrong in your assumptions and are trying to dissuade those who seek the truth, to fail to grasp it? It happened in Jesus’ day and he said it would happen again……
The devil knows how to manipulate humans, and his propaganda makes the lies look like truth and the truth look like lies……who is really being fooled? No one will know until the judgment….they can believe that they know…(Matt 7:21-23) but only Jesus has been appointed as judge of all mankind.

The sad fact is…..Christendom will confuse the socks off any new Christians if they ever try and establish “what is truth?” from that disunited and confusing mess.
Only God can lead the chosen ”few” to his son….(John 6:44; 65) as “kings and priests” in the heavenly kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They will rule over redeemed mankind on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

When God’s Kingdom “comes” it will crush all corrupt earthly kingdoms out of existence and replace them as man’s only government. (Dan 2:44) …..only then can God’s will “be done on earth as it is in heaven”.

 

[Rockerduck]

Can you show me where that happened to anyone in the first century?

What did Jesus tell his disciples to do?
Matt 10: 11-14…
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”

This was not some emotional decision made without knowledge…..someone had to preach the Christian message to a person, and if the response was positive, they were to stay and teach that person what it meant to become a Christian….peace was then granted to both the household and the preacher, but if the message was rejected then they were to “shake the dust off their feet“, as a sign that these ones had rejected salvation.

Jesus’ command to preach in Matt 28:19-20, (the great commission) was to teach these ones ”all the things that [he had] commanded them”….so what brought a person to Christianity was not an emotional decision made on the spot, but a conscious decision to become a disciple of Christ in full knowledge of all that it entailed….it required knowledge.


I would see that very differently….knowing how Jesus presented his message to the people, and how he taught the apostles to preach….there were no instantaneous “Christians”…..I see that on the same level as infant baptism….it is rather meaningless unless you have a knowledge of what is actually required of one who accepts Jesus as their savior….it requires some serious decisions….a complete change of lifestyle for many to become, and to remain obedient to the Christ for the rest of their lives….”faithful to death”.

In the 4 Gospels, no one understood what Jesus was predicting. They didn't believe He was supposed to die and be resurrected. Mary was at the tomb and she didn't know it either, she was surprised the body of Jesus was gone.

It was after Pentecost that Peter and the others began preaching salvation through Jesus' name.
At Pentacost, Peter was speaking and 3000 were saved. At Cornelius's house Peter began speaking and the Holy Spirit fell on all of the household

That said, it is the Apostle Paul that told us about the Church age, Grace, the body of Christ, Rapture, foreknowledge, and predestination. Sitting in Church is when you hear the Word. It is the Word who convicts the Spirit. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10:17

 

[BlessedPeace]

Do you understand the difference between foretelling an event and causing it?
God has foreknowledge of events in the future and he can predict them with great accuracy…it doesn’t mean that he caused them….he merely alerted those who needed to know, what was to take place so that they could understand the event as a part of the outworking of his purpose in creating us here on this beautiful jewel in space….we were given an assignment here and we have not carried it out yet….sin got in the way. But God’s first purpose will be fulfilled. (Isa 55:11)

You just described and at the same time,predetermination. While implying God is not Sovereign.

God used Babylon to punish unfaithful Israel….but then the Medes and Persians under a king named Cyrus,
conquered mighty Babylon in one night by the means prophesied in Isa 45, with barely an arrow fired.
Prophesy is history written in advance. (Isa 46:10)

:) Thank you.
I don't think you realize what you just said there.

Sin was a concept, not a reality.

The war in Heaven proves that false.

Satan did not become “satan” until he tempted the woman in the garden to break God’s law. He sinned on earth not in heaven. He was there in the garden observing all that was going on, hatching his plan to take the humans away from God so that they would worship him instead.

Lucifer fell from Heaven because he led a war against God due to pride and a desire to rule Heaven after he vanquished God. Lucifer didn't like to follow God's laws.
That was sin.

God’s words addressed to the wicked King of Tyre are aimed directly at satan….unless you think that this King was in the garden of Eden? This one was “created” not born.

Ezek 28:13-15…
”In Eʹden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering, ruby, topaz and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx and jade; sapphire, turquoise and emerald; and of gold was the workmanship of your settings and your sockets in you. In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.. . . .Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor. Onto the earth I will throw you. Before kings I will set you, [for them] to look upon you.”

The kids ng of Tyre was not Satan .

Even satan was created as a perfect and magnificent son of God…..“UNTIL” unrighteousness was found” in him.
Cherubs are not babies with wings as they are portrayed in Roman Catholic art…..they are the guardians in God’s heavenly arrangement……and satan was appointed as a guardian in Eden…..a position of responsibility that he abused.

Satan wasn't charged to guard Eden. Satan as the serpent snuck into the garden to tempt Adam and Eve.

The possibility existed…..but no one “sinned” before satan offered the fruit to Eve……yet Adam was the one blamed for ‘sin entering into the world’……do you know why?

Lucifer sinned in Heaven.

He was there in the garden…of course he knew God’s command to Adam. He used it to seduce the woman into taking what God had claimed as his own property. Stealing from one’s Sovereign has always carried the death penalty.

Neither is predestination. I am not a Calvinist.

Neither am I. I just read Scripture.
Calvinism was created through understanding of scripture. Which is something those anti-Calvinists here don't know. Actually,they prove they don't actually know anything about Calvinism. They merely parrot the hate for it in an attempt to dismantle others arguments.

Many Protestants do not believe in a literal hell….we don’t either, but we don’t believe in an immortal soul, which supposedly departs from the body at death…..there is nothing that goes to heaven or hell at the time of death.

Ecclesiastes 12 teaches something different. The soul returns to the God who gave it.

God determines who is resurrected and where they will live and what role they will play. He did not create this planet to be a training ground for heaven. Most Christians will not go heaven….but the chosen ones will……the “few” who will reign with Christ in his kingdom……yet a resurrection is promised for both the righteous and the unrighteous, called out of their graves on earth. (Acts 24:15; John 5:28-29)

He has eliminated from existence many who were incorrigibly wicked in different eras….but he did not desire that outcome.
Did you not read Ezekiel 18:27-28?

There's something Omniscient Sovereign God has no control over? When all that is costs operates by His laws?

2 Peter 3:9 conveys the same desire on God’s part…
”The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.“ (ESV)
He wants all to attain to repentance…..he does not desire that any should perish, but he will not withhold justice when it is demanded.

All whom He calls. Yes. Context

This is addressed to Israel, who were born into a covenant relationship with their God. A man may plan out what he wants to do, but an obedient one allows God to direct his steps.…every Jew knew that their God required exclusive devotion. (Exodus 20:3; Deut 6:4)

No, that's speaking to all people.

Jesus chose his 12 apostles after a whole night in prayer with his Father….so it was’t just Jesus who chose them. He did not know which of the apostles would betray him until just a short time before it happened.
It says that satan entered into Judas and he conspired with the religious leaders to hand Jesus over to them for a price.

How would Yeshua have fulfilled His mission otherwise?

So, in among all those professing to be “Christians” who are those understanding the things of the spirit that are to be ‘spiritually discerned’? Who are the fools? Be careful who you point fingers at….

God's word is the finger. It's very clear what God said.

The Watchtower is a legally established Bible society that prints Bibles and Bible literature. We are not the Watchtower. No one follows a printing establishment.

You follow what is written.

What if it’s you who are wrong in your assumptions and are trying to dissuade those who seek the truth, to fail to grasp it? It happened in Jesus’ day and he said it would happen again……

I'd dissuade anyone from following the JW tradition.

The devil knows how to manipulate humans, and his propaganda makes the lies look like truth and the truth look like lies……who is really being fooled? No one will know until the judgment….

We know now,when we read scripture.

You can imply I'm a devil all you like. Yeshua knows my name.

they can believe that they know…(Matt 7:21-23) but only Jesus has been appointed as judge of all mankind.

God calls whom He will to His grace and eternal irrevocable Salvation.

Unless or until Holy Spirit,God, enters and opens a natural,worldly, consciousness to understanding if His message natural minded people will never understand.

The sad fact is…..Christendom will confuse the socks off any new Christians if they ever try and establish “what is truth?” from that disunited and confusing mess.
Only God can lead the chosen ”few” to his son….(John 6:44; 65) as “kings and priests” in the heavenly kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They will rule over redeemed mankind on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

As I said above.Yes. We don't choose God. God chooses us.

When God’s Kingdom “comes” it will crush all corrupt earthly kingdoms out of existence and replace them as man’s only government. (Dan 2:44) …..only then can God’s will “be done on earth as it is in heaven”.