unity in Christians

[stefen]

You don't need to use the noun Catholic for Universal Church. You can use our english word itself which is understandable to everyone here. Say that "Body of Christ" "Bride of Christ" which is also called as universal Church. If you mention Catholic, Mostly it will be spelled for a denomination only. So, best is to say that we are Christians to remove all divisions from us.

Thanks.

 

[forrestcupp]

You don't need to use the noun Catholic for Universal Church. You can use our english word itself which is understandable to everyone here. Say that "Body of Christ" "Bride of Christ" which is also called as universal Church. If you mention Catholic, Mostly it will be spelled for a denomination only. So, best is to say that we are Christians to remove all divisions from us.

Thanks.

I think he was stating his core beliefs and very loosely trying to sound similar to the Apostles' Creed, which includes the term "the holy catholic church", meaning the universal Church or Body of Christ. The Apostles' Creed is held valuable and celebrated by a lot of denominations.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.

 

[IAmAWitness]

Unity is a load of fantastical malarkey. It will never happen since the biggest thing to block it from happening is the Christians themselves.

Look at this thread for example:

Guysmith started a thread. He wasn't making an end all be all observation that he was offering as a perfect infallible insight. He only offered a simple observation that may further the study of prophecy of those who may come across his post and like what it says. He explains that there are three groups in the context of the rest of the post you can read but I'm not repeating here.

He has the first response say no, that is incorrect. "Actually there are three natural groups of people on the earth..."

The second: "sorry but they're only 2 groups of people..."

Then another (number 3) "There are three types of people in this world: Those who can count and those who can't."

And another: "Sorry, there are 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who do not."

And another: "Actually, "There is none righteous, no, not one." In that sense, there's only ONE group: EVIL!"

And another: "Guysmith ..... some years ago I made note of the following .... there are people who just take the mark ..... and then another group who take the mark AND WORSHIP the beast."

And another: "There are two types of people... those with toilet paper and those without. Becareful which one you shake hands with."

_________

These are most of the first page worth of responses. My point in bringing this up is to show that if the body of Christ is going to seek a state of unity, then it's not going to be with the attitude displayed by most of the posters on this site. And just looking at this one thread, it would seem we can't even agree the things which matter the least. This observation guysmith made wasn't trying to set the Christian world on fire, it wasn't piercing new scholarship and it wasn't offered as that. He was saying it was something that helped him and that was all there was to it. But you can see most responding after him on the first page wanted to say, "No, you are incorrect. My version is the correct method."

What did you gain out of it other than offering just another fallible opinion that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and you come to find out that everyone is equal here and everyone has their own opinion? You accomplished nothing.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17610-three-groups/

 

[aspen]

IAW,

Wrong!

 

[IAmAWitness]

IAW,

Wrong!

Aspen, I don't know what I'm wrong about. Unity is something I'm big on, and that's including for the Jehovah's Witnesses and for everyone else. Also Trinitarians and Unitarians or however else you feel. What I'm pointing out here is that I'm an exception to the rule. Christians are too much about finding things to disagree on (like you're doing now) and finding fights to start which makes everyone tired of your religion because most of you represent it so poorly.

 

[forrestcupp]

Dude, they were all joking. I didn't see that thread, but based on what you quoted, it was a bunch of people joking around. One thing that would help promote unity would be if everyone would learn to lighten up at times.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The Inquisitions were all about maintaining unification. Such actions are the last line of defense when heresies arise. Should the Inquisition have suceeded, you all would be Catholic right now, and not be flustered with 20000 denominations bickering with each other.

 

[Rex]

The Inquisitions were all about maintaining unification. Such actions are the last line of defense when heresies arise. Should the Inquisition have suceeded, you all would be Catholic right now, and not be flustered with 20000 denominations bickering with each other.

The Romans also tried and failed to kill the Christians, so they founded a church and made it law that all should worship under it, it also failed.
Even when the sentence of death was ordered in defiance of the universal church.

No news here, so just when do you suppose you can muster the kings of nations to exterminate again?

There is no unity because many are not Christians, even with-in the same denomination

Pretty well said, I refuse to be joined to any denomination or church,

The church of Jesus Christ cannot be represented by any form of human institution. If people choose a religious institution over the unity of the Spirit...well that speaks more about the people than the church that Jesus Christ is building.

 

[Foreigner]

The Inquisitions were all about maintaining unification. Such actions are the last line of defense when heresies arise. Should the Inquisition have suceeded, you all would be Catholic right now, and not be flustered with 20000 denominations bickering with each other.

-- The Catholic church played fast and loose with the definition of "heresy."

While the Inquisition (thankfully) did not succeed, if you were a Catholic during that time you lived in fear and often unfairly ended up in prison, tortured an even killed.

 

[IAmAWitness]

The Inquisitions were all about maintaining unification. Such actions are the last line of defense when heresies arise. Should the Inquisition have suceeded, you all would be Catholic right now, and not be flustered with 20000 denominations bickering with each other.

Inquisition, I'm kind of imagining Catholics on a stake right now. You are anathema.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Luther and Calvin were burning people at the stake, as was King Henry VIII, who was whacking both Protestant and Catholic alike. These are the founders of Protestantism and Anglicanism.

It is easy to tell who is knowledgeable with history and who isn't, and specifically going after the Church is a good sign that one isn't very much in tune with history. The last line of defense against heresy, as I said, are inquisitions, and it went universally for all beleifs, not just the Church an it's maintenance of dogmas.

You all went straight for that post, denouncing the Church. So it wouldn't be too hard to figure out my opinion of the adequecy of you all's perception. Instead of taking into account that it was simply the 1500's, and the world wasn't a very friendly place, you all bank in on what the Church did, which was no different then anyone or anything else. It's a time literally fresh out of the middle ages- blame the state of the world if you are aiming for honesty, don't go dirtball an institution. That's just asinine.

 

[Foreigner]

Luther and Calvin were burning people at the stake, as was King Henry VIII, who was whacking both Protestant and Catholic alike. These are the founders of Protestantism and Anglicanism.

It is easy to tell who is knowledgeable with history and who isn't, and specifically going after the Church is a good sign that one isn't very much in tune with history. The last line of defense against heresy, as I said, are inquisitions, and it went universally for all beleifs, not just the Church an it's maintenance of dogmas.

*yawn* How many hundreds if not thousands of instances of similar abuses happened via the Catholic Church even before Luther or Calvin were ever born?

For centuries the Catholic church was the ONLY church so to say their actions were SOP for all beliefs is ridiculous.

And any abuses that came after the birth of Protestantism still pale compared to the abuses committed by the Catholic Church.

It really is that simple.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

*yawn* How many hundreds if not thousands of instances of similar abuses happened via the Catholic Church even before Luther or Calvin were ever born?

For centuries the Catholic church was the ONLY church so to say their actions were SOP for all beliefs is ridiculous.

And any abuses that came after the birth of Protestantism still pale compared to the abuses committed by the Catholic Church.

It really is that simple.

What's really simple is that the world wasn't always as it is now. As soon as those such yourself could come to that reality, you will feel stupid demonizing anything exclusively in history.

The Church being the entire face of Christianity for 1500 years just sort of proves my point. You can't say that the Church was evil when it was people of all those generations that made up the Church. And then Protestantism comes along and lookie lookie, same old stuff.

You don't enter a new age of Christianity where churches are being kosher, and then attack one as being evil. You all are just fault finding, self-righteous masses of ignorance. *Yawn* away, buddy.

 

[Foreigner]

What's really simple is that the world wasn't always as it is now.

-- How does that POSSIBLY excuse torture, false imprisonment and murder within the Catholic Church?
It was wrong to the people even then, but they could do nothing about it.

Try again.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

-- How does that POSSIBLY excuse torture, false imprisonment and murder within the Catholic Church?
It was wrong to the people even then, but they could do nothing about it.

Try again.

Because it was the DARK AGES. Ever heard of it? I'm not excusing what people did, I'm simply saying that it's asinine to point the finger at one institution when all government and institutions the world over did the same exact things. THAT'S THE WAY THE WORLD WAS. It was a thousand years ago.

And don't tell me to 'try again' either, you blowhard moron. I'm seriously losing my patience with people like you who simply have no sense whatsoever, coming at the Church with this stupidity.

 

[Selene]

*yawn* How many hundreds if not thousands of instances of similar abuses happened via the Catholic Church even before Luther or Calvin were ever born?

For centuries the Catholic church was the ONLY church so to say their actions were SOP for all beliefs is ridiculous.

And any abuses that came after the birth of Protestantism still pale compared to the abuses committed by the Catholic Church.

It really is that simple.

All people are guilty regardless of whether they are Protestants or Catholics because we are all sinners. However, I would be more concern if I were a non-Catholic because the polls show that Protestantism has drastically decreased in the United States, while the Catholic Church has surprisingly remained steady in their numbers despite the number of Catholics leaving. Those who left the Catholic Church are rapidly being replaced by Protestant converts and by the large number of immigrants coming from South America. Protestantism, on the other hand, have greatly declined. Many of them are becoming atheists or choosing no religion. See the weblink below:

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2012/10/11/6-reflections-on-protestant-decline-in-america/

I would not worry too much about the Catholics. The Catholics are the oldest Christian religion, and we've been standing for over 2000 years. We are still standing. Worldwide, Catholicism has also grown especially in the continents of Asia and Africa. Although there is a slight decrease in Europe and Australia, we're hoping that the new Pope and the movements we have inside the Church will be able to turn things around. Perhaps, there is a reason why God elected a Pope from Argentina. It probably time for the New World to re-evangelize the Old World.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Catholicism is slightly declining in Australia and Europe because they have assembled the gay flag and any church who doesn't support such are unpopular. In America, just by my own observation, Protestant churches are declining because they don't maintain their relevance. The Church, having nearly two millenniums of experiance, knows the importance of being current with the world, and while maintaining orthodoxy at that.

What I do know for a fact is that there are people out there who are converting to Catholicism from Protestantism because they want more potency. I know this because I'm one of those people- I was a Calvinist before I took RCIA and became Roman Catholic.

 

[IAmAWitness]

A Catholic bishop just the other day says pedophilia is not a crime, they should not be punished, because, he says, it is a disease of the mind.

One bishop said that young boys like to seduce the Catholic priests.

When I see a cardinal or Catholic official, such as on the ABC network this morning reporting on the Pope's inaugural mass, my question is, (since it is apparently so widespread), is that man a molester? Are those other men molesters?

That is a terrible thing to say but it is true and your church is responsible. When I meet or see other pastors, I have questions for them as well. Do they go about lying or always telling the truth, do they handle things honestly and with integrity, are they performing the duties of their office as laid out? These are serious questions that most of what we call "pastors" today don't cut it. But I don't ask if they are molesters because the molesters are in your church, not the Protestant churches.

 

[mjrhealth]

"Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which
thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician,
thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another
God on earth." Christopher Marcellus in Oration addressing Pope Julius
II, in Fifth Lateran Council, Session IV (1512), Council Edition. Colm.
Agrip. 1618, (Sacrorum Conciliorum, J.D. Mansi (ed.), Vol. 32, col.
761), (also quoted in History of the Councils, vol. XIV, col 109, by
Labbe and Cossart).


"To believe that our Lord God the Pope
has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed
heretical." The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, ***. Inter,
title 14, chapter 4, "Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium", Column 140, Paris,
1685. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum
Deum Nostrum Papam" (“Our Lord God the Pope”) can be found in column
153).

Enough Said.

Lets get back to doing what we are supposed to do and follow Jesus and not men and religion.

In all His Love

 

[KingJ]

Denominations are created by some rulers / authorities for their own benefit or divided from their parent church due to the lust of the world and money. The enemy is playing with us by creating these type of divisions.. If we are being a ball in enemy's court, we can never expect to see heaven. Thats pretty sure.

Live like Jesus.. Thats it..! You can be called as christian. why are all these useless divisions in us?? which is adding distance to reach heaven. Think and act my Friends. Be blessed.

Hi Stefen

I agree with you here. The many denominations is a clear sign that Christianity is under attack by the devil. Christianity cannot be destroyed as God backs it, but Christians can be confused.

Imho, you will get your wish of unity very soon! True Christians are standing out like sore thumbs as evil grows. People today have forgotten the meaning of the word Christian. Everyone wants to be called a Christian. Everyone wants to go to heaven. How many want to live by God's holy expectations? How many daily, work out their salvation in fear and trembling before a holy God?

Watch the people around you closely. You will find that a Christian will be able to have fellowship with any other Christian irrespective of denomination. The Holy Spirit is NOT confused. We can see those who are carrying their cross. We can see those who are just wearing a sticker.

"Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which
thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician,
thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another
God on earth." Christopher Marcellus in Oration addressing Pope Julius
II, in Fifth Lateran Council, Session IV (1512), Council Edition. Colm.
Agrip. 1618, (Sacrorum Conciliorum, J.D. Mansi (ed.), Vol. 32, col.
761), (also quoted in History of the Councils, vol. XIV, col 109, by
Labbe and Cossart).


"To believe that our Lord God the Pope
has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed
heretical." The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, ***. Inter,
title 14, chapter 4, "Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium", Column 140, Paris,
1685. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum
Deum Nostrum Papam" (“Our Lord God the Pope”) can be found in column
153).

Enough Said.

Lets get back to doing what we are supposed to do and follow Jesus and not men and religion.

In all His Love

Most Catholics are not into idolatry. They see the Pope, cardinals and priests as appointed elders and the saints as good Christians to learn from. If you read what Jesus said to Peter, you can forgive them for isolating an elder, surely?

I am not disputing that many are into idolatry, the concept of Mary and saints as mediators instead of Jesus is concerning. But we are naive to throw a blanket accusation at them. I respect many of the speeches the pope made. I can learn a lot from him! Likewise Mother Theresa, she would win me over to be a Catholic Christian before any liberal preacher at a mega church could!