unity in Christians

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Foreigner

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SilenceInMotion said:
Because it was the DARK AGES. Ever heard of it? I'm not excusing what people did, I'm simply saying that it's asinine to point the finger at one institution when all government and institutions the world over did the same exact things. THAT'S THE WAY THE WORLD WAS. It was a thousand years ago.

And don't tell me to 'try again' either, you blowhard moron. I'm seriously losing my patience with people like you who simply have no sense whatsoever, coming at the Church with this stupidity.
-- "Blowhard moron." Yup, you're a Catholic alright. Your words to your fellow Catholics proud, I'm sure.
People like you are the reason that millions of people like me left the Catholic Church.
Well, that.....and the thousands of pedophile priests that the church hierarchy refused to address.

How amusing. Saying it was the "DARK AGES" appears to convince you that the centuries of unfair imprisonment, torture and murder and then somehow excused.
The only reason 'THATS THE WAY THE WORLD WAS' was because the Catholic church, the most powerful entity in the modern world at that time, MADE IT THAT WAY.

But what should I expect more from you.

You claimed that only 5% of the accusations of sexual molestation by Catholic priests are found true when the truth of the matter is that only 2% are found to be false.
You slid away silently after you were shown to be wrong there.
Tens of thousands of children molested by Priests, and that is just in the last century.
That doesn't even begin to ponder the numbers or level of abuse in the third world countries around the globe over the last several centuries, where laws and enforcement are more lax.



SilenceInMotion said:
In America, just by my own observation, Protestant churches are declining because they don't maintain their relevance. The Church, having nearly two millenniums of experiance, knows the importance of being current with the world, and while maintaining orthodoxy at that.
-- Hate to break it to you but your "own observation" is quite limited in scope. There are also scores of people flooding OUT OF the Catholic church.
Tired of the stale, lack of passion towards Jesus Christ as well as the distracting focus on things other than Him.

Lutheran and other Protestant churches, as well as many Charismatic churches are teaming with former Catholics who want an intimacy with Christ, not His mother.

SilenceInMotion said:
What I do know for a fact is that there are people out there who are converting to Catholicism from Protestantism because they want more potency. I know this because I'm one of those people- I was a Calvinist before I took RCIA and became Roman Catholic.
-- And there are scores of people leaving leaving the Catholic church - in droves - because they too are looking for 'more potency.'
And they are finding it, too.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/assemblies-of-god-surpasses-3-million-followers-in-us-51791/

Assemblies of God Growing Faster Than U.S. Population


The Assemblies of God, one of the largest Pentecostal denominations, is growing faster than the U.S. population.



AG reported that its U.S. adherents increased four percent in 2010, which is several times higher than the U.S. population growth rate, which is about one percent a year. Adherents of the Assemblies of God USA have surpassed three million followers, 3,030,944 to be exact, in 2010.
This is the largest annual percentage increase since 1983, according to AG records.
In terms of official membership, AG reported a 2.5 percent increase, to 1.75 million members. Attendance at major worship service, water baptism, spirit baptism, and conversions were also up, according to statistics.
The largest decline was seen in the Sunday evening service, where attendance drastically fell 4.1 percent, to 399,728.
“This is a unique moment in the history of our movement,” said Assemblies of God General Superintendent George Wood in a video promoting the denomination’s annual General Council meeting next month in Phoenix.

The Assemblies of God in the U.S. was founded in 1914 after an early 20th century Pentecostal movement. While expanding outreach work and establishing relationships with other Pentecostal churches, Assemblies of God became a worldwide movement. The church believes in baptism in the Holy Spirit and present-day speaking in tongues.
Wood has previously attributed the higher statistical numbers to diversity. More than 38 percent of the U.S. Assemblies of God members are ethnic minorities.
The latest report backs up Wood’s claim, showing that ethnic communities defined by language have the largest percentage net gains. The national Slavic group was up 113.7 percent and the Southern Pacific community was up 25.2 percent, according to the report. The West Spanish language region was up 9.7 percent and the language regions classified as "other" was up 9.4 percent.
Part of the reason for the fellowship’s growth may be the result of Wood’s leadership. Wood was elected to lead the U.S. Assemblies of God in 2007. He quickly established initiatives to emphasize church multiplication, training young leaders and resourcing churches and individuals for more effective ministry, officials stated.
Wood previously served as general secretary for 14 years and has more than 40 years of ministry experience. He was assistant superintendent of the Southern California District from 1988-1993, after pastoring Newport-Mesa Christian Center in Costa Mesa, Calif. for 17 years. Wood was elected chairman of the World Assemblies of God Fellowship in May 2008.
In 2009, officials reported having more than 63 million Assemblies of God followers worldwide. At the U.S. General Council meeting in the same year, Wood encouraged struggling leaders not to be weary in their ministry work, even if the harvest may not come in their lifetime.
"The breakthrough will come," Wood told thousands of Pentecostals in Orlando, Fla., at the 2009 meeting. "God will not forget your work."


-- Glad I could help ;)




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forrestcupp

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Why are we growing division in a thread about how we should be in unity?

The fact that the Roman Catholic Church did a lot of bad things in the 1500's doesn't mean anything today. Not a single person in the Catholic Church today is at fault for what other people did hundreds of years ago, any more than I am at fault for Americans having slaves hundreds of years ago.

As for pedophiles and molesters being in the ministry in the Catholic Church, it happens in protestant churches, too. The reason it gets televised about the Catholics is because they aren't allowed to marry, and it appears to the world that the result of that is molestation. But it happens in the protestant church too. Anyone remember Ted Haggard? The point is that all Catholics are not molesters, all protestants aren't molesters, and all postal workers don't go on killing rampages. It's about the individuals, not the whole church. There is a lot of prejudice and stereotyping going on here.

I'm not a Catholic and I don't agree with a lot of their practices, but I have known some Catholics who love Jesus and are good Christians. So I can look past some of the less important differences and come into unity with even my Catholic brothers and sisters who are true Christians.
 
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mjrhealth

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There will never be "unity" in christianity as long as men keep there denominations and refuse to follow Christ. Christ is not divided. Just as one wrote about the false Jews so there are many false christians, ones who are chritians in name only.

They worship Me with their mouths but their hearts are far from Me. The sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, the harlot church, should I go on.

Until "all" christians go to Christ and join to Him and become His bride they will not be united, it is impossible for men to do so,we are united in Christ or divided by religion.

In all His Love

As for the catholic church, it is what it is, no crying will change it, they have being warned for thousands of years to come out, if they believe that God would allow His church to do such things than I am sorry, they cannot know God. They have made a mockery of His name. I was a catholic now I know better.
 

SilenceInMotion

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IAmAWitness said:
A Catholic bishop just the other day says pedophilia is not a crime, they should not be punished, because, he says, it is a disease of the mind.

One bishop said that young boys like to seduce the Catholic priests.

When I see a cardinal or Catholic official, such as on the ABC network this morning reporting on the Pope's inaugural mass, my question is, (since it is apparently so widespread), is that man a molester? Are those other men molesters?

That is a terrible thing to say but it is true and your church is responsible. When I meet or see other pastors, I have questions for them as well. Do they go about lying or always telling the truth, do they handle things honestly and with integrity, are they performing the duties of their office as laid out? These are serious questions that most of what we call "pastors" today don't cut it. But I don't ask if they are molesters because the molesters are in your church, not the Protestant churches.
Lol, what a bishop says is not an infallible, Church declared statement. That's like me assuming that since Westboro Baptist thinks all gays should die, that all Baptist churches feel the same.

The fact is that the Church is gigantic, and what one bishop says, thirty others may say otherwise. This is easy to see, if you can take the plank out of your eye and stop being a fault finder.

Those like yourself simply find ways to throw dirt at the Church. You bear false witness, and you have no shame in it, because other blowhards will come and put you on a pedestal for saying it, much like how a homosexual will call a Catholic a bigot on UK news. A bunch of loudmouths is what you all are, with these pathetic assessments of the Church.

Check out all these Protestant cases of rape and molestation:
http://reformation.com/CSA/variousabuse.html

But you never hear about them because those like yourself can't take their attention off the Church. Anti-Catholic 'Christians' are jealous that the Church is mightier then their own, that's all.
 

JPPT1974

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Unity is about agreeing to disagreeing and living in peace. With all Christians regardless of denominations, topics, or thoughts. As we can respect it but not like it. It is about living all in the Body of Christ!
 

Selene

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SilenceInMotion said:
Catholicism is slightly declining in Australia and Europe because they have assembled the gay flag and any church who doesn't support such are unpopular. In America, just by my own observation, Protestant churches are declining because they don't maintain their relevance. The Church, having nearly two millenniums of experiance, knows the importance of being current with the world, and while maintaining orthodoxy at that.

What I do know for a fact is that there are people out there who are converting to Catholicism from Protestantism because they want more potency. I know this because I'm one of those people- I was a Calvinist before I took RCIA and became Roman Catholic.
There are Protestant Christians who have converted to Catholicism, and it was the Holy Spirit who led them to their conversion because no Catholic evangelized them. Christians such as Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, and Steve Ray were anti-Catholics. Steve Ray, for example, went all out of his way to prove that Catholicism is wrong. He studied the Catechisms and the doctrines of the Catholic Church and could not find anything that went against scripture. So, he decided to travel to Israel because he figured that it would be in Israel that he would be able to prove the Catholic Church wrong. Instead, he converted to Catholicism while he was in Israel.

Scott Hahn's conversion story was an amazing one. Hahn was a Presbyterian minister, and as he studied Judaism and the Early Christians, he was making one discovery after another....only to find out that the Catholic Church was already practicing what he discovered. He ended up feeling like he was re-inventing the wheel. Later, rather than reading anti-Catholic materials, he decided to study the Catholic doctrine to hear from the horse's mouth exactly what Catholicism was really about. It was once said that to understand Catholicism, one needed to understand Judaism. Hahn later converted to Catholicism and took his best friend (who was already a pastor) with him. Tim Staples also converted and took almost his entire congregation with him. Converts like yourselves know more about the faith than cradle Catholics born into Catholicism.

Many Protestants have converted because they were questioning their own Protestant faith. This is not so with Catholics who left. By the way, I am not a convert. I grew up Catholic.
 

Foreigner

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Apparently the growth of the Catholic Church stops at the Rio Grande...



http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139066/omar-encarnacion/the-catholic-crisis-in-latin-america?page=show
The Catholic Crisis in Latin America





Even an Argentine Pope Can't Save the Church










March 19, 2013






The Vatican is banking on Pope Francis to revive the Catholic Church in Latin America or, at the very least, help slow its decline. But those hopes are unfounded. Catholics in Latin America are leaving the church in record numbers because they find other religions more self-empowering, more modern, and less hierarchical. The fact of a Latin American pope won't change all that.
OMAR ENCARNACIÓN is Professor of Political Studies at Bard College.








Encarnacion_TheCatholic_Crisis_411.jpg

When the conclave of Cardinals met in Rome this month to elect Pope Benedict XVI’s successor, few predicted that Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina would emerge victorious. However, the fact that a Latin American Cardinal would rise to the throne of St. Peter took almost no one by surprise. Latin America is home to nearly half of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics, but there had never been a Latin American pope. Further, the Vatican had been anxious about the dramatic decline of Catholicism across the region in the last decade. Mexican journalist Diego Cevallos, a seasoned observer of religious life in Latin America, had aptly captured the sentiment in 2004 when he noted that, although the Vatican had once seen the area as a “continent of hope,” it now thought of it as a “continent of concern.”
The picture in Brazil and Mexico, the world’s two largest Catholic nations, tells a thousand words. According to Brazil’s 2010 census, 65 percent of the population is Catholic, down from over 90 percent in 1970. Similarly, between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of Mexicans that identify as Catholic dropped from 88 to less than 83 -- the largest fall recorded to date. If these trends persist, by 2025 about 50 percent of all Latin Americans will be Catholic, down from approximately 70 percent today. Such a decline would offset any gains the church might make in its new continent of hope, Africa.
Just as worrisome for Vatican officials is the apparent loss of Catholic influence over social policy in Latin America. In recent years, politicians from both the left and the right have defied the church in ways that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago. In 2009, officials from Mexico City legalized abortion, euthanasia, and same-sex marriage and adoption. The threat of excommunication did nothing to change their minds. In 2010, Argentinian President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner legalized same-sex marriage. She responded to the opposition mounted by Bergoglio by branding him a relic from the past “reminiscent of the Middle Ages and the Inquisition.” In 2012, Chilean President Sebastián Piñera, of the historically Catholic Christian Democratic Party, enacted an anti-discrimination law that included sexual orientation as a category for protection against the strenuous opposition from Catholic officials. Piñera is now pushing legislation to legalize same-sex civil unions.
It is no wonder, then, that the conclave of Cardinals went for a Latin American pope. The Vatican is banking on Pope Francis, as Bergoglio is now called, to save Catholicism in Latin America or, at the very least, help slow its decline. But there are reasons to believe that the church’s hopes are unfounded -- even misplaced.
For one, it has not gone unnoticed that the new pope’s country of origin makes him an odd choice if the goal is to excite Latin American Catholics. Argentina is widely known as a European society in exile. It is, The Washington Post’s Anthony Faiola has written, “a nation apart,” and for that reason “many [are] likely to see the rise of an Italian Argentine as largely unrepresentative of the region.” Beyond that, though, the particularly dark history of the Argentine Catholic Church poses an even bigger challenge: nowhere else in Latin America is the Catholic Church’s reputation for advancing democracy and human rights more tarnished.
During Argentina’s last stint of military rule, between 1976 and 1983, the Catholic Church became an accomplice to the Dirty War, a war against left-wing dissidents and sympathizers that left between 10,000 and 30,000 dead. In 2011, Jorge Rafael Videla, the dictator who ruled the country from 1976 and 1981, said in an interview with El Sur magazine that he had discussed the policy of “disappearing” opponents of the regime with Cardinal Raúl Francisco Primatesta, and the country’s papal nuncio, Pio Laghi, and that “they had suggested ways for dealing with the situation. Military commanders have also testified that some priests sanctioned the practice of dumping the drugged bodies of those who had been tortured into the open seas as “a form of Christian death.” The church has even admitted its support for the dictatorship and apologized for it. In a 1996 statement, Argentina’s Conference of Bishops “[implored] God’s forgiveness for the crimes committed then by sons of the church, whether as members of the revolutionary guerrillas or as members of the state or the security forces.” That apology has not spared the church from prosecution. In 2007, Buenos Aires chaplain Christian von Wernich was convicted to life in prison for being a participant (not an accomplice) in multiple cases of murder, torture, and illegal imprisonment.
What role Bergoglio played during the Dirty War remains contested. The most serious accusation, made by investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky in his book El Silencio, is that Bergoglio, as head of Argentina’s Society of Jesus, failed to protect two young priests, who had been working to improve the lives of the poor in the barrios of Buenos Aires. According to Verbitsky, Bergoglio fired the priests because he disagreed with their embrace of Liberation Theology, the Marxist-influenced philosophy that encouraged Catholics to work against social and economic injustice. The priests were subsequently captured and tortured. The Vatican has vigorously defended the new pope as the victim of “a left-wing anti-clerical conspiracy” and points to the fact that Bergoglio eventually arranged for the release of the young priests. But the controversy is unlikely to die anytime soon. For one thing, one of the victims accused Bergoglio of “handing him over to the military death squads” before his death in 2000. The other, still alive, released a statement after Bergoglio’s appointment declining to comment on the controversy other than to say that “he is reconciled to the events.”
Other controversies, too, are likely to keep pressure on Bergoglio, including the charge that he was aware and condoned the very sordid practice of the military regime stealing children and babies from left-wing dissidents for adoption by military officials. As part of an ongoing government investigation into this matter, in 2011 Bergoglio was forced to testify in court. His testimony, as reported in the Argentine press, was “evasive, bordering on contemptuous.” It left human rights activists, including the famed Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo, outraged.
Beyond Bergolgio’s personal baggage, there are other reasons to doubt whether he will be able to revive Catholicism in Latin America. Although Catholics in the United States and Western Europe Catholics are leaving the church atop a tide of secularism, in Latin America, Catholics are leaving because they find other religious options more appealing. The decline of Catholicism in Latin America has been met with an explosion in Protestantism. It is estimated that approximately 15 percent of all Latin Americans are Protestant -- a startling figure considering that, as recently as the mid-1990s, only about four percent were Protestant. The most “extreme” case is Guatemala, where approximately 30 percent of the population is Protestant and three presidents have identified as Evangelical.
In Brazil, an estimated 500,000 people are thought to be leaving the Catholic Church per year, with the bulk of them converting to Protestantism. Those flocking to the Evangelical mega-churches of Rio de Janeiro cite the Catholic Church’s authoritarianism and strict hierarchy -- embodied, curiously enough, in the pope -- as the primary reason for leaving. By contrast, they point to the opportunities that Protestant churches afford for women and minorities to ascend the ranks. In addition, they appreciate the positive message of self-empowerment and teachings on how to accrue wealth and prosperity. It is hard to imagine that Bergoglio’s message and example of humility and frugality, however virtuous, will resonate with these folks.
Of course, the new pope might be more successful rekindling the faith of those who still identify themselves as Catholics. But even this mission will be an uphill struggle, given the Catholic clergy’s rigid conservatism. Of the 70 percent of the population of Latin America that considers itself Catholic, only 40 percent say they regularly attend church and follow the church’s teachings. The Southern Cone countries of Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, and Uruguay have even lower rates. In Bergoglio’s own home turf, Argentina, the drift is most acute: of the 78 percent of Argentines who regard themselves as Catholic, only 20 percent regularly practice their faith.
Among the reasons that non-practicing Catholics cite for not adhering to their faith, a sense that the church is out touch trumps all the rest. Nothing demonstrates this better than the church’s stance on homosexuality. Rooted in the belief that homosexuality is a sin, the church has opposed same-sex marriage and civil unions and anti-gay discrimination legislation in the face of growing support for gay rights across Latin America. Same-sex marriage was legalized in Argentina in 2010 with almost 70 percent of the public’s support. Indeed, it was the extraordinary public backing that brought Fernández de Kirchner around to the legislation. Prior to 2010, she had not expressed any interest in promoting gay rights. Elsewhere in Latin America, support for gay marriage ranges from 50 percent in Uruguay, the country most likely to follow on Argentina’s footsteps (a bill to legalize gay marriage cleared the Uruguayan Senate last December), to 40 percent in Brazil and 38 percent in Mexico.
As fate would have it, the fight for same-sex marriage in Argentina consolidated Bergoglio’s reputation as one of the most out of touch priests in Latin America. As head of the Argentine Catholic Church, he was, of course, expected to lead the fight against same-sex marriage. But there was something especially ugly in the way in which Bergoglio attacked the bill. In a letter to Argentine monasteries, he labeled it “a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.” Bergoglio further characterized the bill in the media as “a project of the devil to destroy God’s plan.” This rhetoric did little to change the popular view that the Catholic Church opposes gay rights not because of doctrine but because of bigotry. As such, Argentina’s largest gay rights organization, FALGBT, responded to Bergoglio’s ascension to the papacy by noting that “The appointment of someone who believes that marriage equality is a demonic plan is a bad sign for equality.” Hardly any voices within the Latin American church have challenged the orthodoxy on same-sex promoted by Bergoglio and his predecessor at the Vatican, who argued in his 2012 Christmas speech that same-sex marriage “destroyed the essence of human nature.” The only church official to speak in favor of same-sex marriage in Argentina, José Nicolás Alessio, a priest from Córdoba who called homosexuality “a blessing, a gift from nature,” was promptly relieved of his duties.
To be sure, some of the new pope’s ecclesiastical priorities, such as highlighting inequality in what is the world’s most unequal region, will resonate with many Latin Americans; and most Latin Americans will see the rise to the papacy of one of their own as a tremendous source of pride. Even so, the gulf between what the new pope stands for and what most Latin Americans want for their religious life is so wide, that Bergoglio will not likely bridge it, and the waning of Catholicism in Latin America will continue apace.


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SilenceInMotion

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Catholic-Protestant statistics change rapidly all the time. It's only because a new pope has been appointed that all things these past few years are being brought to light. Latin society has always gone back in forth, with apostacy being a variable as well. Look up Latin history, you are seriosuly beating a dead bush.

The Church is massing huge numbers in Africa, where Protestantism is fading more rapidly then ever seen in since the history of it's conception. Anglican Protestants are losing bad, and American Protestantism only got the interest of that continent because we got Coca Cola and Wonder Bras.

*Catholicism wins Africa*

The Church is doing big things, don't let all that alleged criticism and 'matter of facts' fool you.

Here's an interesting statistic: 78% of Americans idenify themselves as Christians. Only 8% of them attend church and follow their religion. Swallow that fact, Latin countries are more Catholic then Protestant countries are Protestant.
 

Selene

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Catholicism is also massing huge numbers in Asia. In Indonesia, 10,000 Muslims converted to Catholicism every year. 250,000 Muslims in Malaysia have also converted. More Muslims in France convert to Catholicism that to Protestant denominations. In Muslim dominated countries, Catholic missionaries have been at work underground because in those countries a Muslim who converts to Christianity can face not only persecution but the death penalty. But the Catholic Church knows who converted because of baptism.

http://plinthos.blogspot.com/2013/03/muslims-convert-to-catholicism-millions.html
 

IAmAWitness

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forrestcupp said:
Why are we growing division in a thread about how we should be in unity?
What did I tell you? Every Christian has his own version of facts and no one anywhere shares the feelings of anyone else.

Remember this?


forrestcupp said:
Dude, they were all joking. I didn't see that thread, but based on what you quoted, it was a bunch of people joking around. One thing that would help promote unity would be if everyone would learn to lighten up at times.
SilenceInMotion said:
Lol, what a bishop says is not an infallible, Church declared statement. That's like me assuming that since Westboro Baptist thinks all gays should die, that all Baptist churches feel the same.

The fact is that the Church is gigantic, and what one bishop says, thirty others may say otherwise. This is easy to see, if you can take the plank out of your eye and stop being a fault finder.

Those like yourself simply find ways to throw dirt at the Church. You bear false witness, and you have no shame in it, because other blowhards will come and put you on a pedestal for saying it, much like how a homosexual will call a Catholic a bigot on UK news. A bunch of loudmouths is what you all are, with these pathetic assessments of the Church.

Check out all these Protestant cases of rape and molestation:
http://reformation.com/CSA/variousabuse.html

But you never hear about them because those like yourself can't take their attention off the Church. Anti-Catholic 'Christians' are jealous that the Church is mightier then their own, that's all.
I'm not lying. You accuse me of lying but a bishop did in fact say these words. Perhaps one problem people find with the Catholics is their arrogant hubris, thinking that they can skate accusations with flippancy just by saying, as you are doing, "That was hundreds of years ago!" or "So what if someone said it, I can find a Protestant minister say something crazy to!"

SilenceInMotion said:
Lol, what a bishop says is not an infallible, Church declared statement. That's like me assuming that since Westboro Baptist thinks all gays should die, that all Baptist churches feel the same.

The fact is that the Church is gigantic, and what one bishop says, thirty others may say otherwise. This is easy to see, if you can take the plank out of your eye and stop being a fault finder.

Those like yourself simply find ways to throw dirt at the Church. You bear false witness, and you have no shame in it, because other blowhards will come and put you on a pedestal for saying it, much like how a homosexual will call a Catholic a bigot on UK news. A bunch of loudmouths is what you all are, with these pathetic assessments of the Church.

Check out all these Protestant cases of rape and molestation:
http://reformation.com/CSA/variousabuse.html

But you never hear about them because those like yourself can't take their attention off the Church. Anti-Catholic 'Christians' are jealous that the Church is mightier then their own, that's all.
"A bunch of loudmouths is what you all are, with these pathetic assessments of the Church."

And honestly, ignorant statements like this one just make you sound like a troll. I can't imagine under what circumstances you could ever be taken seriously on a site like this or allowed to continue posting if you don't get a major attitude adjustment quick. You're 25 years old dude and that's probably why you sound like a know-it-all and a moron.
 

mjrhealth

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New world order, one world government, one world bank. one world religion. Its all knocking loudly at our doors. Any one hazard a guess for the most likely candidate for the one world religion??? Now would you than want to be a part of it that is the question??

In All His Love
 

Foreigner

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SilenceInMotion said:
Catholic-Protestant statistics change rapidly all the time.
"According to Brazil’s 2010 census, 65 percent of the population is Catholic, down from over 90 percent in 1970. Similarly, between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of Mexicans that identify as Catholic dropped from 88 to less than 83 -- the largest fall recorded to date. If these trends persist, by 2025 about 50 percent of all Latin Americans will be Catholic, down from approximately 70 percent today."

-- Hate to break it to you but a 33 year downward trend in Brazil is HARDLY a "rapid" change. Math 101, Big Guy.


SilenceInMotion said:
*Catholicism wins Africa*
-- Yay! Who cares if the gains in Africa are more than offset by the losses of Catholics in Central and South America, right?


SilenceInMotion said:
Here's an interesting statistic: 78% of Americans idenify themselves as Christians. Only 8% of them attend church and follow their religion. Swallow that fact, Latin countries are more Catholic then Protestant countries are Protestant.
-- Did you really just skip over this article?
Guess we know where a large portion of that 8% are attending, don't we? ;)

http://www.christian...rs-in-us-51791/
Assemblies of God Growing Faster Than U.S. Population








Selene said:
Catholicism is also massing huge numbers in Asia. In Indonesia, 10,000 Muslims converted to Catholicism every year. 250,000 Muslims in Malaysia have also converted.
-- You don't give a source or provide a timeline for the conversion of the 250,000 Muslims in Malaysia, but according to the article I sourced in this thread, those gains are MORE than offset by the fact that 500,000 PEOPLE A YEAR IN BRAZIL ALONE are leaving the Catholic Church.
Again, every single solitary year.



Selene said:
In Muslim dominated countries, Catholic missionaries have been at work underground because in those countries a Muslim who converts to Christianity can face not only persecution but the death penalty. But the Catholic Church knows who converted because of baptism.

http://plinthos.blogspot.com/2013/03/muslims-convert-to-catholicism-millions.html
-- Your link is misleading because it muddys the water to try to imply that all Christian conversations were Catholic conversions, which is obviously far from the truth.

Do you really think the Catholic Church is the only Christian denomination with underground churches and ministries operating in places like China, Malaysia, and the Middle East? More importantly, do you really think they are the only ones winning converts to Christ?

Here is a link that should interest you:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2750788/posts

"In Communist China, Protestant Christianity Becomes Fastest Growing Religion"


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mjrhealth

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only ones winning converts to Christ?
No, not Christ but denominations, What is it you cannot see, when one joines the SDA church that is what they become, when one joins the Catholic church that is what they become, when one joins the Salavtion Army church that is what they become, when one joins one self to Jesus that one become a Christian.

In all His Love
 

SilenceInMotion

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Protestants sitting here thinking they are going to one be larger or more prominent then the Church is laughable. They get a temporary incline of adherents in a certain region and all of a sudden they turn into big wads of pretentious loudmouths.

That's certainly what a lot of Protestants are anyway. How exactly does one attack another church of something that your own church has done? Oh yes, be anti-Catholic, the only port known in this wide world where hypocrisy has an invisibility reagent. You all are perpetually against the Church and attack it at every single tiny angle you can find, and 90% of the time it is something which I, myself, would feel stupid stating- but you do it anyway. It is pathetic. I think some of you need to check yourselves and come back to planet Earth.
 

Foreigner

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SIM, you crack me up.

You rant and rave and actually call people names on this board and then you bemoan other who all of a sudden "turn into big wads of pretentious loudmouths."
Ah, hypocricy at its finest...

You keep moving away from posts that successfuly refute claims you make and restort to name calling and insults.


But as far as facts - actual facts - let's review, shall we?

http://www.foreignaf...erica?page=show
"According to Brazil’s 2010 census, 65 percent of the population is Catholic, down from over 90 percent in 1970. Similarly, between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of Mexicans that identify as Catholic dropped from 88 to less than 83 -- the largest fall recorded to date. If these trends persist, by 2025 about 50 percent of all Latin Americans will be Catholic, down from approximately 70 percent today. Such a decline would offset any gains the church might make in its new continent of hope, Africa."

http://www.foreignaf...erica?page=show
"In Brazil, an estimated 500,000 people are thought to be leaving the Catholic Church per year, with the bulk of them converting to Protestantism."

http://freerepublic....n/2750788/posts
"In Communist China, Protestant Christianity Becomes Fastest Growing Religion"


Sorry to interject actual facts here, but one of us had to. ;)


Perhaps now you can "check yourself and come back to planet earth?" Hmmmm?
 

Selene

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Foreigner said:
"According to Brazil’s 2010 census, 65 percent of the population is Catholic, down from over 90 percent in 1970. Similarly, between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of Mexicans that identify as Catholic dropped from 88 to less than 83 -- the largest fall recorded to date. If these trends persist, by 2025 about 50 percent of all Latin Americans will be Catholic, down from approximately 70 percent today."

-- Hate to break it to you but a 33 year downward trend in Brazil is HARDLY a "rapid" change. Math 101, Big Guy.


-- Yay! Who cares if the gains in Africa are more than offset by the losses of Catholics in Central and South America, right?


-- Did you really just skip over this article?
Guess we know where a large portion of that 8% are attending, don't we? ;)

http://www.christian...rs-in-us-51791/
Assemblies of God Growing Faster Than U.S. Population









-- You don't give a source or provide a timeline for the conversion of the 250,000 Muslims in Malaysia, but according to the article I sourced in this thread, those gains are MORE than offset by the fact that 500,000 PEOPLE A YEAR IN BRAZIL ALONE are leaving the Catholic Church.
Again, every single solitary year.




-- Your link is misleading because it muddys the water to try to imply that all Christian conversations were Catholic conversions, which is obviously far from the truth.

Do you really think the Catholic Church is the only Christian denomination with underground churches and ministries operating in places like China, Malaysia, and the Middle East? More importantly, do you really think they are the only ones winning converts to Christ?

Here is a link that should interest you:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2750788/posts

"In Communist China, Protestant Christianity Becomes Fastest Growing Religion"


.

Foreigner, this is what your article says:

As long as they avoid confrontation and keep their congregations small - 25 is the maximum gathering allowed by law without official permission - the Protestant house churches are mostly tolerated by the government. Catholic ones are kept under closer scrutiny because of China's tense relationship with the Vatican over its continued diplomatic recognition of the government of Taiwan and disagreement over who has the final say on the consecration of Chinese bishops.

It is the Catholics in China who are being persecuted. Despite those persecutions, the number of Catholics continue to rise....and that in itself is the miracle of the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church continue to rise despite those persecutions in China. And our numbers have remained steady in the United States while Protestanism has greatly decreased.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1146/eating_bitterness_catholics_in_china.aspx#.UUt-9xdHKSo


Catholicism has increased worldwide.

Substantial increases were seen in Asia (15.61%), Africa (33%), Oceania (11.39%)and the Americas (10.93%) while Europe’s modest increase (1.17%) kept the Catholic population there stable.
The number of priests saw a modest increase from 405,178 to 409,166 between 2000 and 2008. The largest gains in terms of priests were in Africa and Asia where their numbers increased by 33.1% and 23.8%, respectively.
http://www.pacatholic.org/number-of-catholics-increasing-worldwide/



 

SilenceInMotion

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Foreigner said:
SIM, you crack me up.

You rant and rave and actually call people names on this board and then you bemoan other who all of a sudden "turn into big wads of pretentious loudmouths."
Ah, hypocricy at its finest...
That's because you all don't shut up. About 80% of all the posts on this board daily are anti-Catholic tripe by you and a few others, even on the most irrelevant of threads. There is no hyporcisy in what I do, I don't go around being anti-Protestant day in and day out, your lot just can't seem to stop coming up with nonsense about Catholciism.

So ther you go bearing false witness, just like your anti-Catholic crap.
 

Foreigner

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Selene, you seem like a reasonable person. But you can't honestly think that Catholics are the only denomination being persecuted in China.
Both Catholics AND Protestants are being persecuted:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/february-web-only/persecution-in-china-is-very-real.html


And as you pointed out in what you posted, much of China's problem with the Catholic church isn't Christ related, but rather the Vatican's recognition of the Taiwanese gov't.


And as far as the growth of the Catholic church, I have already shown that the losses in Central and South America MORE than offset the growth you touted in Indonesia and Malaysia.

And as far as the US, besides me already showing that the Assemblies of God Church is growing faster than the US population (many of those coming from the Catholic church) http://www.christian...rs-in-us-51791/

The Catholic church is not the onlly denomination growing, even as those in the US who call themselves Christians declines.

And that is not the only place other denominations are growing:
http://benbyerly.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/more-than-13-of-protestants-and-evangelicals-live-in-sub-saharan-africa-pew-study/

"More than 1/3 of Protestants and Evangelicals live in Sub-Saharan Africa (Pew study)"




And then there is this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1606671/posts

Evangelical growth is worldwide phenomenon
The Presbyterian Layman ^ | December 10, 1998

Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 4:00:45 AM by Gamecock
Evangelical Christians are the main force behind the growth of Christianity, according to Patrick Johnstone, author of The Church is Larger Than You Think.
Johnstone's assessment of the growth in evangelical Christianity was reported in the November-December issue of Good News magazine, a journal that promotes evangelical renewal in the United Methodist Church.
The magazine story quoted Johnstone as identifying the following trends:
1. Evangelical Christianity has grown slowly but steadily in the West, while the rest of Western Christianity has shrunk significantly;
2. The real growth of Evangelical Christianity in recent years has been in Latin America, Africa, and Asia. In 1960, non-Western Evangelicals were about half as numerous as those in the West; in the year 2000 they will be four times, and in 2010, seven times as numerous;
3. Although Christianity as a whole is growing slightly slower than Islam, Protestant Christianity is expanding faster than Islam at 2.9 percent per year, which is almost double the rate of population growth-currently at 1.7 percent;
4. The Roman Catholic Church is expanding more slowly than the population, which means that the percentage of Catholics in the population is decreasing. This is mainly due to the secularization in Europe and the trend to Evangelicalism in Latin America;
5. Protestantism is growing almost twice as fast as the world population, but this is almost entirely due to Evangelicals. Non-Evangelical Protestant churches are shrinking significantly. "Liberal theology is being preached in ever-shrinking churches in increasingly empty church buildings."
6. Evangelical Christianity is expanding more than three times as fast as the world population, and is hence the only religious group in the world with significant growth through conversion, at a rate almost double that of Islam.

Translation: Catholicism is far from the only Denomination doing God's work in a big way around the world.


SilenceInMotion said:
I don't go around being anti-Protestant day in and day out, your lot just can't seem to stop coming up with nonsense about Catholciism.
-- If you actually go back and read the comments, insults and criticism you have posted in just this thread alone, you would see that you are just as guilty as you claim others to be. You may have to come down off your high horse to see it, but....



SilenceInMotion said:
So ther you go bearing false witness, just like your anti-Catholic crap.
-- LOL Only you would claim that direct quotes from link-provided news articles is....wait for it.....bearing false witness. Priceless :D

I understand you being irritated at your repeated claims being successfully refuted by facts.

You'll just have to deal with it. Or don't. Your obvious frustration at being undermined by facts is of little consequence to me.


.
 

SilenceInMotion

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Foreigner said:
Catholicism is far from the only Denomination doing God's work in a big way around the world.


-- If you actually go back and read the comments, insults and criticism you have posted in just this thread alone, you would see that you are just as guilty as you claim others to be. You may have to come down off your high horse to see it, but....




-- LOL Only you would claim that direct quotes from link-provided news articles is....wait for it.....bearing false witness. Priceless :D
Catholciism is not a denomination, you all denominated from it.

If I go back and read my comments, I insult and criticize those who can't stop being anti-Catholic. The only thing I'm guilty of is being tired of anti-Catholic tripe and telling you few what you need to be told.

And I don't deny sources, I simply point out when people try to make them into something they are not, which is what I have done on this thread. Those such as yourself consistently blow things out of proportion, trying to make it seem like your atom bombing the Church when you're really just being a dishonest, unrealistic mudslinger.
 

Selene

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Foreigner said:
Selene, you seem like a reasonable person. But you can't honestly think that Catholics are the only denomination being persecuted in China.
Both Catholics AND Protestants are being persecuted:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/february-web-only/persecution-in-china-is-very-real.html





.
Are you saying then that the article you first posted is incorrect? The first article you posted does say this:

As long as they avoid confrontation and keep their congregations small - 25 is the maximum gathering allowed by law without official permission - the Protestant house churches are mostly tolerated by the government. Catholic ones are kept under closer scrutiny because of China's tense relationship with the Vatican over its continued diplomatic recognition of the government of Taiwan and disagreement over who has the final say on the consecration of Chinese bishops.

If you feel that this statement was misleading or false in anyway, then perhaps this website is biased. Also, Protestantism has greatly decreased in the United States while the Catholic Church has remained stable. See the weblink below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/us/study-finds-that-percentage-of-protestant-americans-is-declining.html?_r=0