(Aquila;52965)
Praise the Lord everyone!I'm new here and please forgive me as I learn the rules. In a few threads around here I saw two different theological views being represented about Hell: Eternal Hell and Annihilationism. But there is a third view that is gaining some ground in Evangelical community. This view is known as Universal Reconciliationism or Universal Salvation. I thought that it might be interesting to discuss this view here also, especially in light of the ideas of Eternal Hell and Annihilationism. The Universal Salvation view holds that Hell is temporary and that all will eventually be saved. This view was believed by many during the first four centuries of the Church and was a view held by Origen. Down through Christian history this view was adopted in various forms by various theologians classified as "Christian Universalists". So here goes...Here are a few Scriptures this view is based upon...I Corinthians 15:22.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall
all be made alive. Romans 5:18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon
all men unto justification of life. John 12:32. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw
all men unto me. Philippians 2: 10-11. That at the name of Jesus
every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that
every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. I Timothy 2: 1-6.I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Ephesians 1: 9-11. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one
all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Acts 3: 20 and 21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of
restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world. Romans 8: 20-21. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in
hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God Hebrews 7:25. Wherefore
he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Titus 2:11. For
the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, I Corinthians 4:5. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall
every man have praise of God. Revelation 21: 4-5.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Also consider Christ's own parabolic descriptions of Hell...Luke 12:42-4812:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him
his portion with the unbelievers. 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten
with many stripes.12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten
with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.In the above parable Christ indicates that in eternity the unprepared and the unbelievers will be punished. However, their punishment varies in both intensity and duration. The “stripes” (or punishments) come to an end. Jesus also said…Matthew 18:23-3418:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors,
till he should pay all that was due unto him.Here we see a man delivered to the tormentors “till” (or until) he has sufficiently paid for his wrong. Matthew 25:4125:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:Here we see that the lake of fire is to be the permanent abode of the devil and his angels. Then Jesus goes on to say…The Greek language also brings another possibility to the table. Jesus said, Matthew 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment (kolasis): but the righteous into life eternal.The term “aionios” doesn’t literally translate “everlasting” or “eternal”. The term “aionios” is based on the Greek root noun “aion” meaning “age” or “eon”. The term “aionios” is an adjective meaning “pertaining to the aion” or “age enduring”. The term is used for anything that doesn’t have a defined end or beginning. It could indeed be “eternal”…or it may also indicate a limited period of time whose duration is unknown. For example the hills and the mountains are referred to as being “everlasting” in Genesis 49:26 and Habakkuk 3:6. The Greek term used here is also “aionios”. These verses don’t mean that the mountains and hills are “eternal” but rather the time of their end or destruction is unknown. So here Jesus may be describing a period of time that whose duration is unknown or unrevealed. Also it’s important to note that the term “aionios” is an adjective that is to be understood in context of the noun it’s describing. For example if it speaks of God certainly the word is to be understood as “eternal” because God is eternal. However, if used in respect to mountains or hills it is to be understood as being “age enduring” or as “having an unknown end”. That brings us to the next point….It is the “punishment” that is described by the adjective “aionios”. The Greek term used here for “punishment” is “kolasis”. This is a very interesting Greek term that has puzzled Bible scholars for millennia. The term “kolasis” is based on the root word “kolazo” meaning to “prune”, “correct”, or “to make better”. So the Greek language here would allow the phrase “everlasting punishment” to mean an “age long pruning” or “an age long correction”, the length of the age, though being unspecified, may have an end. This view would be that the Gospel (or good news) is that Christ’s blood is sufficient and has redeemed the entire human race from eternal torment. Yet God will punish sin with severe, yet temporary, punishment or torment in Hell. Eventually all men will be reconciled to God leaving only the devil and his angels burning in the lake of fire. This presents a triumphant Gospel that succeeds in saving the entire human race. In this view Christ’s blood has sufficiently provided the atonement for all mankind’s salvation…yet those who chose to believe and obey Christ enter the Kingdom of God and escape the “everlasting punishment” or “age long correction” spoken of in Matthew 25:46. Please note, in this view, though all are saved, it is entirely through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Christ is indeed the Savior of the World. What are some of your thoughts? God bless.
I can only hope and pray this is true

ray3:, as I have spent a few days reading about this and to me it makes more sense than calvinism

or armininism which seems to be the most prominant christian views on this forum (and they clearly are not compatible with one another)As this is my first post I cannot post links until my fourth post,but have copied and pasted something I read about this belief
Scripture references are from the New King James Version of the Bible unless stated otherwise.Do you profess to be a Bible believing Christian? All Bible believing Christians fall into one of three categories of Christian beliefs, known as Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism. These are the three distinct and separate schools of Christian theology. With regard to SALVATION, every professing Christian inevitably falls into one of them, whether he understands or is aware of these terms or not. So if you claim to be a Bible believing Christian, after you remove all of your denominational clothing, you are a Calvinist Christian, or an Arminian Christian or a Universalist Christian.Each belief system claims to be biblically based, and theologians have argued and debated the issues related to each of them for centuries. They have been unable to reconcile any of these groups because they are irreconcilable, and there is no middle ground between them with respect to salvation.Calvinism was the most dominant and widely held view of Protestant Christians from the time of the Reformation for hundreds of centuries up until the last century. Arminianism has now overtaken Calvinism by a long way, and currently most Christian churches are Arminian in their belief. There is sufficient historical evidence to show that Universalism was the most widely held view for the first five centuries following the death of Jesus Christ. However, this all changed when the Roman Catholic Church pronounced an anathema in 573 A.D. on anyone who believed in Universalism. Currently, Universalism is a very small minority view, perhaps no more than 2% of Bible believing Christians.There are five points in Calvinism, five points in Arminianism, and even five points in Universalism, which outline each of these belief systems. The purpose of this chapter is to highlight the core differences between these belief systems, without a detailed complicated theological analysis of each point.What is Calvinism?It is a system of theological belief promoted by a French man, John Calvin (1509-1564), and expressed in the document called Institutes of the Christian Religion. Calvinism laid the foundation for the Reformed Theology of the Reformation period. Calvinism is the basis for the doctrine of many Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican and Reformed churches.According to Calvin, God predestined before the beginning of the world, to save a certain group of people called God's Elect. God's sovereign will for His Elect cannot be resisted or thwarted, as His irresistible grace ensures that all of them will willingly accept Jesus Christ at some point in their lives before they die. The Non-Elect cannot come to Christ because natural fallen man is totally sinful and depraved. Salvation is entirely the work of God from start to finish. All believers (the Elect) will go to heaven, but all unbelievers (the Non-Elect) will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire (hell), where they will be tortured forever.Some Calvinist Christians believe in annihilism instead of endless torture.What is Arminianism?It is a system of theological belief promoted by a Dutch man, Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). Arminius started out as a strict Calvinist, but later changed his views as stated in the document called, 'The Remonstrance'. Arminianism is the theological basis for Methodists, Wesleyans, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, Free Will Baptists, Holiness churches and many charismatic churches. Roman Catholicism is also basically Arminian in its belief.According to Arminius, Christ died for all people and God wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. However, God's will can be frustrated and thwarted by man and God's grace can be resisted by man's freewill. This is because ultimately it is left to each person to decide whether he wishes to be saved or not. Therefore, in order to go to heaven each person must choose to accept Jesus Christ before he dies. All those who die without choosing Christ will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire (hell), where they will remain to be tortured forever.Some Arminian Christians believe in annihilism instead of endless torture.What is Biblical Universalism?Origen of Alexandria (185-254 A.D.) is the earliest Christian theologian known to have written about Universalism that eventually everyone will be saved. However, we do not believe that Origen had the full revelation of true Biblical Universal Salvation.According to the Bible, Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. God wills all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. God is the Saviour of ALL people and He will save ALL people. He is working out His plan of salvation for all people in Ages, in His time and in His order. God first saves His Elect, whom He predestined from the foundation of the world, to believe in Jesus Christ during this life, before they die. They are the First Fruits who have a special salvation, and they will rise as the Bride of Christ in the First Resurrection.All people who die as unbelievers (the Non-Elect) will be resurrected in the Second Resurrection when they will be judged in the Lake of Fire, during the Great White Throne Judgement Age. This fiery yet loving judgement of God will lead to the fear of God, humbling of hearts and repentance. The Bride of Christ, who is the First Fruits, will play a vital role in helping unbelievers to repent and believe. Thus, the Bride of Christ united with Christ as His Wife will give birth to more fruits or Second Fruits. Ultimately, everyone without exception will freely and thankfully accept and believe in Jesus Christ and be reconciled to Father God.Which God are you serving?The God of Calvinism sacrificed his son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for his Elect only, and he predestined only his Elect to be saved. This must also mean that he predestined, knowingly and willingly , to cast the vast majority of mankind (the Non-Elect) to be tortured in hell forever. This makes the God of Calvinism an evil god, infinitely and unimaginably more evil than Hitler could ever be.The God of Arminianism sacrificed his son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for all people, and he wills all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but he has made himself helpless to save all by allowing man's freewill to override his will. Against his will, the God of Arminianism is forced to throw the majority of mankind into hell to be tortured forever because, for one reason or another, they failed to accept Jesus Christ in this life before they died. Even worse than that, the God of Arminianism knowingly and willingly created human beings, with his full foreknowledge that the vast majority of them would reject salvation and end up being tortured in hell forever. This makes the God of Arminianism both an evil god, as evil as the god of Calvinism, and a weak god who allows Satan and sinful men to override his will in salvation.The God of the Bible sacrificed His son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for all people and He wills all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He has unlimited wisdom, power and love to save all people in His time and in His order. Therefore, ALL people will eventually freely and thankfully accept and receive the free gift of salvation in this life or the next life, and be reconciled to God through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. This makes the God of the Bible an all-powerful, wise, merciful, loving, gracious and forgiving God.Calvinism and Arminianism are Unbiblical BeliefsChristians who hold to Calvinist and Arminian beliefs of salvation are sincere people but they are sincerely wrong. Traditional Christianity, because of its long established and entrenched belief in the doctrine of Eternal Torture in Hell, is unable to accept at face value, many clear scriptures in the Bible such as Colossians 1:15-20 and 1 Timothy 4:10, which uphold the truth of Universal Salvation. Please refer to Chapter 3 'Universal Reconciliation Scriptures' for a list and commentary on fourteen of many such scriptures.Calvinism and Arminianism give absurd reasoning in defence of their unbiblical beliefs. They argue that it is God’s justice which causes Him to throw multiple billions of people into a hell of Eternal Torture.If this were true, then it would be the strangest and cruelest type of justice one could ever imagine. What type of justice is it for an all-knowing, all-loving God who knows the end from the beginning, and foreknew that man would sin, then to create multiple billions of people in His own image, who would end up being punished by Him eternally for their sins committed in the few years of their very temporary existence in this life?Thankfully, the true God of the Bible is an absolutely just God, whose just plan will ensure that ultimately all people will be reconciled to Himself because of the loving sacrifice of Jesus Christ, whom He sent to die on the cross for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)Calvinism and Arminianism further argue that Jesus Christ Himself preached more about hell than any other person in the Bible. What Jesus actually spoke about was gehenna, not hell. The Greek word gehenna has been mistranslated as hell in most but not all versions of the Bible. Jesus never spoke about a hell of endless torture. Our Lord and the Bible do not support the traditional Christian teaching of hell. For full details, please refer to Chapter 15 'Hell' in the Bible.Arminianism exalts man’s fallen sinful will above God’s sovereign will in salvation. It argues that God allows the majority of mankind, multiple billions of people, to reject His salvation and choose hell as God cannot violate man’s freewill. It falsely reasons that this has to be the case because God has not created us as robots, but as individuals with freewill. Arminianism fails to understand that God’s sovereign will for ALL in salvation does not make anybody a robot, but it enables the person to make the right choice. God's will liberates the person from slavery to sin, to real freedom in Christ, from being a child of Satan to being a child of God. (John 8:34-36) The problem with Arminianism is not that we humans do not have freewill, but that it exalts man’s limited freewill above God’s sovereign will.Our salvation is totally, one hundred percent, the work of God from start to finish. Nobody can come to Jesus Christ unless Father God first draws her or him to Christ, and when Father draws a person to Christ, she or he will respond and come to Christ. (John 6:37, 44) This is not a robotic response, but a thankful and grateful response, as the Holy Spirit works in the person’s heart and grants her or him repentance and the gift of faith to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.God wills all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. (I Timothy 2:3-6) God is carrying out His will in His own time and order. (1 Corinthians 15: 22-23) God is the Saviour of all people, but especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10) God has a Plan to save all people. Let nobody think that God’s will in salvation for all can be frustrated or stopped by Satan or man’s freewill.Calvinism and Arminianism have not understood the fullness of God's Plan, which He is working out in biblical Ages, to ultimately save ALL people to inherit the Kingdom of God of the New Heaven and the New Earth.ConclusionMake no mistake about it, you are profoundly affected by how you understand these three belief systems. Your understanding of God's sovereignty, His love, His justice, His righteousness, His grace, His forgiveness, His character and above all the very gospel of Jesus Christ are all fundamentally governed and coloured by each belief system.People who believe that God will torture unbelievers in hell forever lack the spirit of forgiveness, which Jesus had when He prayed to the Father on the cross and asked Him to forgive His very murderers.Luke 23:34Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."Only people who believe in Biblical Universalism have the same spirit of forgiveness that Jesus had, and they understand how Father God will completely answer Jesus' prayer for the forgiveness of His murderers.Chapter 12 'The Great White Throne Judgement' fully explains how and when Father God will answer Jesus' prayer.
However if it's not true, then I have to conclude that Calvinism

must be true that if God is Omnipotent, all knowing and knows what happens before it happens, then he must have planned it that way before the foundation of the world, and most people are destined to be lost foreverMany have said it's God's prerogative to save whom he will and send to eternal damnation whom he will, my point is WHY must that punishment be eternal, what purpose would it serve???, what disappoints and horrifies me, is that you get people like Fred Phelps that would LOVE for that to happen???I personally would not wish an everlasting hell on my worst enemy, and am finding it extremely hard to accept it, let alone be able to perceive God as lovingIf I had a choice between1) I get a million dollars and a place in heaven for myself2) That no people are going to burning in hell forever )I can still accept that they may be thrown in the lake of fire, but will one day die (some may die sooner than others), I can still live with that because at least someday it will end I would DEFINATELY, UNDOUBTABLY choose option 2Sorry for the long post, I can only hope there are some that will agree with me