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GerhardEbersoehn

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We have no choice but to walk in the shadow since the fulfillment has not come yet. "Actually doing it" means you are actually observing the day and whatever is associated with it except for animal sacrifices.

It's sacrifices made the shadow days or gave them meaning; per se the days were meaningless and worthless. Now after Jesus Christ The All-encompassing All-comprehensive Fullness of Fulfilment of God's whole Law and Word of ALL TIME, you come along and tell us, No it is Christ Jesus actually who is meaningless and useless, not 'the shadow' and we don't have to walk in Him or in His Fullness but 'in the shadow since the fulfilment has not come yet' thus denying that Christ had actually come and finished all the works and promises of and prophesies about Him?
Have your religion for yourself!
 

gadar perets

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It's sacrifices made the shadow days or gave them meaning; per se the days were meaningless and worthless. Now after Jesus Christ The All-encompassing All-comprehensive Fullness of Fulfilment of God's whole Law and Word of ALL TIME, you come along and tell us, No it is Christ Jesus actually who is meaningless and useless, not 'the shadow' and we don't have to walk in Him or in His Fullness but 'in the shadow since the fulfilment has not come yet' thus denying that Christ had actually come and finished all the works and promises of and prophesies about Him?
Have your religion for yourself!
Very dramatic and emotional! Its amazing how you can put words in my mouth. It is also amazing how ignorant you are concerning the prophetic fulfillment of the holy feast days. You cannot quote any Scripture that fulfills Yom Teruah, for example, yet you say it is now "meaningless and worthless".
 
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farouk

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Romans 14 seems to anticipate that some people will observe special days more than others and that they are not a ritual obligation under the New Testament.
 

gadar perets

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Romans 14 seems to anticipate that some people will observe special days more than others and that they are not a ritual obligation under the New Testament.
Romans 14 refers to days that YHWH did not command to be kept holy such as Purim, Hanukkah, certain fast days, etc. They are days that man esteems special or not. Romans 14 has nothing to do with commanded days such as the Sabbaths and Feasts.
 

Pilgrimer

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Happy Yom Teruah / Day of Trumpets / Day of Shouting!


If you are among those who believe Yeshua (Jesus) fulfilled the reality of this day, please tell me how. What did the shadow point to and what was the reality casting the shadow? For example, we know the shadow of the Passover lamb with its blood put upon the doorposts saved the firstborns from death and that the realty is Yeshua the Messiah, the true Passover Lamb whose blood will protect us from death. Had Yeshua not died as the fulfillment of the Passover lamb, we would still be sacrificing Passover lambs. That is because a shadow cannot cease until the reality comes.


As I understand it, the shadow of Yom Teruah has not been fulfilled and therefore, we still live under its shadow awaiting the coming reality. Only when the day is fulfilled can the observance of it cease. If we no longer need to observe this day, then what is the reality (fulfillment) of Yom Teruah?


Many years ago I ran across Jesus’ words, “Therefore every student of the Law which is instructed in the Gospel of the Kingdom is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.” I took those words to heart and have spent many years studying the typology of the Old Covenant and what it has to teach us about the person and work of Messiah Jesus. From my studies I understand Jesus to have fulfilled all the feasts as well as all the times and seasons of the whole Jewish calendar, both the civil and the ecclesiastical.

As to the feast of Trumpets in the beginning of the civil year, the beginning of its fulfillment is seen in the ministry of John the Baptist and the beginning of the Gospel. I will refrain from any lengthy post with all the minutia, but for a broad outline, the first and most significant typology of trumpets in Scripture is that it represents the summoning of God in the wilderness calling the people to come up to the mount and receive the Word of God (Exodus 19:10-19). I think the shadow of that event being fulfilled by John the Baptist, "the voice of one crying in the wilderness," calling sinners to come to Jesus is sufficiently self-explanatory, but to go back and study and meditate on these things is edifying.

Another typological use of trumpets in Scripture is that they represent the voice of God in another way. In the days when Israel was on the march before they had conquered and entered the promised land, the armies were directed in their movements and in setting up and breaking camp by signals from the trumpets, governing their every move. Again, how that relates to the church today, being the army of God faithfully obeying the voice of God as we journey through the wilderness of this world battling the enemies of God on our way to entering that heavenly kingdom, is also self-explanatory.

And yet another use of trumpets is that it regulated the daily worship of God’s people. From the first blast of the trumpet summoning the people to come up to the mount for the morning sacrifice and gather at the door of the Lord’s House to worship the One who dwelt there, until the last note drifted across the tops of the houses in preparation for the evening sacrifice and the close of another day, so too God’s people today are called morning and evening to ascend to the mount and set our feet in His Holy Courts and enjoy communion and fellowship with the Father and the Son.

And last, but not least, the shadow of trumpets sounding an alarm, which is to my mind the heartbreaking shadow. Paul used this shadow in his denunciation of the Jewish elders at Corinth who rejected his testimony about Jesus and blasphemed the work of God and Paul warned them that their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean.(Acts 18:1-6) This harkens back to the days when cities had watchmen on the walls of a town. They were instructed that if a watchman saw an enemy approaching and did not sound the alarm to warn the townspeople and any were slain, their blood would be upon his head. But if he sounded the alarm, and they ignored it, then their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean. (Ezekiel 33:1-6)

I have often shaken my head in dismay when I hear the music and see the dancing to the song, “Blow the Trumpet in Zion.” That Scripture is not about celebration, it’s about warning, warning that destruction is coming, with blood and fire and pillars of smoke from one horizon to the other. And the fulfillment of that shadow, of a trumpet blast warning of coming destruction, was the total destruction that God brought upon the land of Israel in the Great Revolt of 66-73 A.D. when His wrath was poured out upon an apostate Jewish state, when not one city or town or village was left standing but the land and even the Holy City and Temple were desolated and millions of Jews were slain and everything that God had provided for the observance of the Old Covenant was quite literally wiped from the face of the earth.

Those are a few preliminary thoughts on the fulfillment of Trumpets and what it signified in the Jewish calendar, and how it was fulfilled in the days of Messiah, and continues to find fulfillment today in His Kingdom.

But the foreshadowing of these things didn’t end there. There followed the Day of Atonement when two goats were slain to make atonement for sin, and only one of them foreshadowed Jesus.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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Frank Lee

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Galatians 4:10-11 KJVS
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Romans 14:5-6 KJVS
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it . He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Do I sin because I do not perform certain traditional rituals on days set by men? Then most certainly the Holy Spirit of the eternal God will tell me. Man's condemnation does not God's conviction equal.

Let every day be holy. Not just ones set by man's traditions.
 
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farouk

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Galatians 4:10-11 KJVS
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Romans 14:5-6 KJVS
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it . He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Do I sin because I do not perform certain traditional rituals on days set by men? Then most certainly the Holy Spirit of the eternal God will tell me. Man's condemnation does not God's conviction equal.

Let every day be holy. Not just ones set by man's traditions.
Well, exactly. Under the New Testament the perspective is changed entirely.
 

farouk

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Many years ago I ran across Jesus’ words, “Therefore every student of the Law which is instructed in the Gospel of the Kingdom is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.” I took those words to heart and have spent many years studying the typology of the Old Covenant and what it has to teach us about the person and work of Messiah Jesus. From my studies I understand Jesus to have fulfilled all the feasts as well as all the times and seasons of the whole Jewish calendar, both the civil and the ecclesiastical.

As to the feast of Trumpets in the beginning of the civil year, the beginning of its fulfillment is seen in the ministry of John the Baptist and the beginning of the Gospel. I will refrain from any lengthy post with all the minutia, but for a broad outline, the first and most significant typology of trumpets in Scripture is that it represents the summoning of God in the wilderness calling the people to come up to the mount and receive the Word of God (Exodus 19:10-19). I think the shadow of that event being fulfilled by John the Baptist, "the voice of one crying in the wilderness," calling sinners to come to Jesus is sufficiently self-explanatory, but to go back and study and meditate on these things is edifying.

Another typological use of trumpets in Scripture is that they represent the voice of God in another way. In the days when Israel was on the march before they had conquered and entered the promised land, the armies were directed in their movements and in setting up and breaking camp by signals from the trumpets, governing their every move. Again, how that relates to the church today, being the army of God faithfully obeying the voice of God as we journey through the wilderness of this world battling the enemies of God on our way to entering that heavenly kingdom, is also self-explanatory.

And yet another use of trumpets is that it regulated the daily worship of God’s people. From the first blast of the trumpet summoning the people to come up to the mount for the morning sacrifice and gather at the door of the Lord’s House to worship the One who dwelt there, until the last note drifted across the tops of the houses in preparation for the evening sacrifice and the close of another day, so too God’s people today are called morning and evening to ascend to the mount and set our feet in His Holy Courts and enjoy communion and fellowship with the Father and the Son.

And last, but not least, the shadow of trumpets sounding an alarm, which is to my mind the heartbreaking shadow. Paul used this shadow in his denunciation of the Jewish elders at Corinth who rejected his testimony about Jesus and blasphemed the work of God and Paul warned them that their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean.(Acts 18:1-6) This harkens back to the days when cities had watchmen on the walls of a town. They were instructed that if a watchman saw an enemy approaching and did not sound the alarm to warn the townspeople and any were slain, their blood would be upon his head. But if he sounded the alarm, and they ignored it, then their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean. (Ezekiel 33:1-6)

I have often shaken my head in dismay when I hear the music and see the dancing to the song, “Blow the Trumpet in Zion.” That Scripture is not about celebration, it’s about warning, warning that destruction is coming, with blood and fire and pillars of smoke from one horizon to the other. And the fulfillment of that shadow, of a trumpet blast warning of coming destruction, was the total destruction that God brought upon the land of Israel in the Great Revolt of 66-73 A.D. when His wrath was poured out upon an apostate Jewish state, when not one city or town or village was left standing but the land and even the Holy City and Temple were desolated and millions of Jews were slain and everything that God had provided for the observance of the Old Covenant was quite literally wiped from the face of the earth.

Those are a few preliminary thoughts on the fulfillment of Trumpets and what it signified in the Jewish calendar, and how it was fulfilled in the days of Messiah, and continues to find fulfillment today in His Kingdom.

But the foreshadowing of these things didn’t end there. There followed the Day of Atonement when two goats were slain to make atonement for sin, and only one of them foreshadowed Jesus.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
"All the promises of God in Him are Yea, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God by us". (2 Corinthians 1.20)
 

gadar perets

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Many years ago I ran across Jesus’ words, “Therefore every student of the Law which is instructed in the Gospel of the Kingdom is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.” I took those words to heart and have spent many years studying the typology of the Old Covenant and what it has to teach us about the person and work of Messiah Jesus. From my studies I understand Jesus to have fulfilled all the feasts as well as all the times and seasons of the whole Jewish calendar, both the civil and the ecclesiastical.

As to the feast of Trumpets in the beginning of the civil year, the beginning of its fulfillment is seen in the ministry of John the Baptist and the beginning of the Gospel. I will refrain from any lengthy post with all the minutia, but for a broad outline, the first and most significant typology of trumpets in Scripture is that it represents the summoning of God in the wilderness calling the people to come up to the mount and receive the Word of God (Exodus 19:10-19). I think the shadow of that event being fulfilled by John the Baptist, "the voice of one crying in the wilderness," calling sinners to come to Jesus is sufficiently self-explanatory, but to go back and study and meditate on these things is edifying.

Another typological use of trumpets in Scripture is that they represent the voice of God in another way. In the days when Israel was on the march before they had conquered and entered the promised land, the armies were directed in their movements and in setting up and breaking camp by signals from the trumpets, governing their every move. Again, how that relates to the church today, being the army of God faithfully obeying the voice of God as we journey through the wilderness of this world battling the enemies of God on our way to entering that heavenly kingdom, is also self-explanatory.

And yet another use of trumpets is that it regulated the daily worship of God’s people. From the first blast of the trumpet summoning the people to come up to the mount for the morning sacrifice and gather at the door of the Lord’s House to worship the One who dwelt there, until the last note drifted across the tops of the houses in preparation for the evening sacrifice and the close of another day, so too God’s people today are called morning and evening to ascend to the mount and set our feet in His Holy Courts and enjoy communion and fellowship with the Father and the Son.

And last, but not least, the shadow of trumpets sounding an alarm, which is to my mind the heartbreaking shadow. Paul used this shadow in his denunciation of the Jewish elders at Corinth who rejected his testimony about Jesus and blasphemed the work of God and Paul warned them that their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean.(Acts 18:1-6) This harkens back to the days when cities had watchmen on the walls of a town. They were instructed that if a watchman saw an enemy approaching and did not sound the alarm to warn the townspeople and any were slain, their blood would be upon his head. But if he sounded the alarm, and they ignored it, then their blood was upon their own heads, he was clean. (Ezekiel 33:1-6)

I have often shaken my head in dismay when I hear the music and see the dancing to the song, “Blow the Trumpet in Zion.” That Scripture is not about celebration, it’s about warning, warning that destruction is coming, with blood and fire and pillars of smoke from one horizon to the other. And the fulfillment of that shadow, of a trumpet blast warning of coming destruction, was the total destruction that God brought upon the land of Israel in the Great Revolt of 66-73 A.D. when His wrath was poured out upon an apostate Jewish state, when not one city or town or village was left standing but the land and even the Holy City and Temple were desolated and millions of Jews were slain and everything that God had provided for the observance of the Old Covenant was quite literally wiped from the face of the earth.

Those are a few preliminary thoughts on the fulfillment of Trumpets and what it signified in the Jewish calendar, and how it was fulfilled in the days of Messiah, and continues to find fulfillment today in His Kingdom.

But the foreshadowing of these things didn’t end there. There followed the Day of Atonement when two goats were slain to make atonement for sin, and only one of them foreshadowed Jesus.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
There is only one fulfillment of Yom Teruah. You have given four. That means at least three are wrong. Of those four, you do not have Yeshua fulfilling anything. John the Baptist fulfills one, God's voice fulfills two of them, and watchmen fulfill the last. Where is Yeshua fulfilling any of them? And where are we told that only Yeshua can fulfill a shadow?
 

Frank Lee

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Well, exactly. Under the New Testament the perspective is changed entirely.

Yes, but there are so many that seem to want to carry parts, large or small, of the law over into the new covenant. Jesus plus. Jesus plus this, that or the other. We see it everywhere.

They attempt to make salvation so complex that none can accept it's simplicity. I have sympathy for them to a point but just to a point.
 

gadar perets

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Galatians 4:10-11 KJVS
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
This is speaking about days, months, times and years that they used to observe as pagans. It has nothing to do with YHWH's holy days.

Romans 14:5-6 KJVS
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it . He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Do I sin because I do not perform certain traditional rituals on days set by men? Then most certainly the Holy Spirit of the eternal God will tell me. Man's condemnation does not God's conviction equal.
You do not sin by not performing rituals on days set by men, but you do sin when it comes to days set by YHWH. The feast days are NOT man made.

Let every day be holy. Not just ones set by man's traditions.
Man's tradition did NOT make the Sabbath Day holy or any feast day. YHWH Himself declared them holy. He also set them apart from the common days that were NOT holy. Yet, you declare every day holy. Please provide Scripture for doing so.
 

gadar perets

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Yes, but there are so many that seem to want to carry parts, large or small, of the law over into the new covenant. Jesus plus. Jesus plus this, that or the other. We see it everywhere.

They attempt to make salvation so complex that none can accept it's simplicity. I have sympathy for them to a point but just to a point.
Did I say your salvation was contingent upon keeping the Feast Days holy? It is you who are making this issue complex by adding salvation into the mix.
 

Pilgrimer

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There is only one fulfillment of Yom Teruah. You have given four. That means at least three are wrong. Of those four, you do not have Yeshua fulfilling anything. John the Baptist fulfills one, God's voice fulfills two of them, and watchmen fulfill the last. Where is Yeshua fulfilling any of them? And where are we told that only Yeshua can fulfill a shadow?

I don't recall reading that rule in Scripture. I do however recall reading in Scripture the things that I cited as ways in which trumpets were used symbolically in Scripture, and ways in which during the days of Messiah that symbolism came to pass. Why don't you tell me what you think the Feast of Trumpets foreshadowed?

As for Jesus being the central figure in all the things I mentioned, he is the beginning of the year of salvation to all those who believe, he is the mount to which we must come if we are to receive God's Law written in our hearts, he is the One who goes before us to lead us in the way we should walk and in whose steps we follow and in whose guidance we trust, he is our cloud of covering to protect us by day and our pillar of fire to give us light by night, he is our King and our Lord, our buckler and our shield, our avenger before whom our enemies fall, he is the very voice of God echoing in our hearts and reminding us that we are God's people.

He is that and so much more, and I wish you had taken time to seek him out in all those things.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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gadar perets

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I don't recall reading that rule in Scripture. I do however recall reading in Scripture the things that I cited as ways in which trumpets were used symbolically in Scripture, and ways in which during the days of Messiah that symbolism came to pass. Why don't you tell me what you think the Feast of Trumpets foreshadowed?
There are two possible realities for Trumpets; 1) Yeshua will return to resurrect the dead in him at the sound of the trumpet on a future Yom Teruah or 2) The Day of YHWH spoken of in Joel 2:31 will begin on a future Yom Teruah when the first trumpet of Revelation 8 begins to sound. I believe the latter with the resurrection taking place at the 7th trumpet of Revelation which will be blown on a future Yom ha Kippurim in a Jubilee year.

As for Jesus being the central figure in all the things I mentioned, he is the beginning of the year of salvation to all those who believe, he is the mount to which we must come if we are to receive God's Law written in our hearts, he is the One who goes before us to lead us in the way we should walk and in whose steps we follow and in whose guidance we trust, he is our cloud of covering to protect us by day and our pillar of fire to give us light by night, he is our King and our Lord, our buckler and our shield, our avenger before whom our enemies fall, he is the very voice of God echoing in our hearts and reminding us that we are God's people.

He is that and so much more, and I wish you had taken time to seek him out in all those things.
I see him in all those things. They are not the fulfillment of Yom Teruah. A reality casts one shadow, not many different shadows.
 

CoreIssue

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Colossians 2:16-17 New International Version (NIV)
Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Giving a secular holiday a Christian overtone is one thing. But calling it biblically holy is a false claim.

Easter and Christmas are pagan holidays in Christian disguise via Catholicism. Such as lent are catholic inventions.
 

gadar perets

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Colossians 2:16-17 New International Version (NIV)
Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
The words I put in blue are not in the Greek text. This is one of many examples of why I will never use the NIV paraphrase.

Giving a secular holiday a Christian overtone is one thing. But calling it biblically holy is a false claim.

Easter and Christmas are pagan holidays in Christian disguise via Catholicism. Such as lent are catholic inventions.
I agree.
 

Pilgrimer

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There are two possible realities for Trumpets; 1) Yeshua will return to resurrect the dead in him at the sound of the trumpet on a future Yom Teruah …

We are speaking of Old Covenant things that were shadows of future events. Every instance where I spoke of the symbolism of trumpets was drawn from how they were actually used in Old Testament times, and how that symbolism was fulfilled in New Testament times.

Where in the Old Testament were trumpets used at resurrections?

… or 2) The Day of YHWH spoken of in Joel 2:31 will begin on a future Yom Teruah

Again, where is the shadow? Where in the Old Testament were trumpets used to signal anything resembling a period of time like that described in Joel?

I see him in all those things. They are not the fulfillment of Yom Teruah. A reality casts one shadow, not many different shadows.

Again with your rules. Why can’t a reality cast many shadows? Jesus did. He was the Passover lamb. But he was also the red heifer. And the Goat for Jehovah. And the turtledove. And the wave sheaf. And the Temple veil. And the High Priest. And Jesus was the manna from heaven. And he was the rock that was struck from which flowed the water of life. And he was the ark of the covenant. And the cornerstone of the Temple.

I could go on but …

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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gadar perets

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We are speaking of Old Covenant things that were shadows of future events. Every instance where I spoke of the symbolism of trumpets was drawn from how they were actually used in Old Testament times, and how that symbolism was fulfilled in New Testament times.

Where in the Old Testament were trumpets used at resurrections?
Lev 25:8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
Lev 25:9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
Lev 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.​

This is a shadow of the trumpet that will signal the resurrection of those in Messiah. They will be set at liberty from their prison, the grave, and return to the possession YHWH gives them and return unto their heavenly family. This will take place on the Day of Atonement in a Jubilee year.

The trumpet that signals the beginning of the Day of YHWH will be an alarm trumpet of war that signals YHWH's war against the wicked.

Num 10:9 And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresses you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before YHWH your Elohim, and ye shall be saved from your enemies.​

Again, where is the shadow? Where in the Old Testament were trumpets used to signal anything resembling a period of time like that described in Joel?

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of YHWH comes, for it is nigh at hand;​

Again with your rules. Why can’t a reality cast many shadows? Jesus did. He was the Passover lamb. But he was also the red heifer. And the Goat for Jehovah. And the turtledove. And the wave sheaf. And the Temple veil. And the High Priest. And Jesus was the manna from heaven. And he was the rock that was struck from which flowed the water of life. And he was the ark of the covenant. And the cornerstone of the Temple.
You are merely listing assorted types and shadows of Yeshua. Yet, each thing you listed is its own type or shadow. The red heifer shadow does not fulfill the Passover lamb shadow. Neither does the wave sheaf or any other thing you listed. ONLY the Passover lamb can be accepted as the shadow cast by the reality of the true Passover Lamb, Yeshua. Every reality casts ONLY one shadow.