Upon THIS Rock I will build my Church

[Willie T]

I think we're fishing!
Why would Jesus have said first "you are Peter"??

Bella ragazza!

 

[Enoch111]

What DIFFERENCE does it make if Jesus meant the rock to be Peter?

It makes a HUGE difference. The only Rock in Scripture is Christ Himself (who is God). Therefore it is blasphemous to call any man "the Rock". Peter Himself would reject any notion that he was "the Rock". I will post the relevant Scripture in another post.

But the Catholic Church made Peter the Rock since their entire position is based upon that FALSE TEACHING. And thus we have a religious system that is based upon a lie.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why would Jesus build His Church upon Peter?

Stranger

Just thinking here.
Jesus is the foundation of our faith. He's the foundation of the building...He's the corner stone.

But that's not enough. A human church (small c) also needs humans to get it running and keep it running. If there was no one to run a church,,,it would just stop functioning.

Peter was the strongest of the Apostles. Jesus surely knew that the Apostles were to go out to preach and teach, Mathew 28, the Great Commission. He might have wanted Peter to head this movement.

 

[GodsGrace]

It makes a HUGE difference. The only Rock in Scripture is Christ Himself (who is God). Therefore it is blasphemous to call any man "the Rock". Peter Himself would reject any notion that he was "the Rock". I will post the relevant Scripture in another post.

But the Catholic Church made Peter the Rock since their entire position is based upon that FALSE TEACHING. And thus we have a religious system that is based upon a lie.

I don't need scripture!
But post it for others if you wish.

On Him the solid rock I stand,
All other ground is shifting sand.

(and many more)

Interesting point about Peter. Yes, I'd have to agree.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That doesn't answer my question.

Stranger

Then you'll have to ask Jesus.
It answers MY curiosity on the subject . . .

 

[Stranger]

Just thinking here.
Jesus is the foundation of our faith. He's the foundation of the building...He's the corner stone.

But that's not enough. A human church (small c) also needs humans to get it running and keep it running. If there was no one to run a church,,,it would just stop functioning.

Peter was the strongest of the Apostles. Jesus surely knew that the Apostles were to go out to preach and teach, Mathew 28, the Great Commission. He might have wanted Peter to head this movement.

The strongest forsook Him? Denied him three times? Surely you haven't thought this through.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

It makes a HUGE difference. The only Rock in Scripture is Christ Himself (who is God). Therefore it is blasphemous to call any man "the Rock". Peter Himself would reject any notion that he was "the Rock". I will post the relevant Scripture in another post.

But the Catholic Church made Peter the Rock since their entire position is based upon that FALSE TEACHING. And thus we have a religious system that is based upon a lie.

Wait. On which false teaching....that PETER is the rock and not Jesus?
They know Jesus is the rock...
They do this because they want Peter to be the first "pope".

 

[GodsGrace]

The strongest forsook Him? Denied him three times? Surely you haven't thought this through.

Stranger

Peter was the leader of the Apostles. This is known.
Jesus knew Peter would forsake Him,,,He told him so,,,it was due to fear and not because he wanted to desert Jesus.
He forsook him in word only but not in heart.

 

[Stranger]

Then you'll have to ask Jesus.
It answers MY curiosity on the subject . . .

I have no problem with the Church being built upon the confession of Peter or upon the prophets and apostles. I do have a problem with it being built on one individual, Peter.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

He said, "You are ROCK" (Kepha)."

"Peter" is simply an English translation of the Greek Petros. Greek has several words for "Rock" (lithos, petros, petra), whereas Aramaic only has ONE. Paul chose to use a Greek transliteration (not translation) and called him "Cephas".

Yes, I know this...I misspoke.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It makes a HUGE difference. The only Rock in Scripture is Christ Himself (who is God). Therefore it is blasphemous to call any man "the Rock". Peter Himself would reject any notion that he was "the Rock". I will post the relevant Scripture in another post.

This is absolute nonsense.

Abraham is ALSO called the "Rock" by Isaiah (Isaiah 51:1-2).
Is this "blasphemous"??

Do you ever bother to actually READ Scripture before posting your anti-Catholic drivel??

 

[Stranger]

Peter was the leader of the Apostles. This is known.
Jesus knew Peter would forsake Him,,,He told him so,,,it was due to fear and not because he wanted to desert Jesus.
He forsook him in word only but not in heart.

Peter, James, and John were the inner core of the disciples. Only John was there at the foot of the cross. James became the leader of the Church at Jerusalem. Peter denied the Lord.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have no problem with the Church being built upon the confession of Peter or upon the prophets and apostles. I do have a problem with it being built on one individual, Peter.

Stranger

So - if it is built on several flawed, sinful men, then it's okay - just not ONE??
Why is that??

 

[Stranger]

So - if it is built on several flawed, sinful men, then it's okay - just not ONE??
Why is that??

The only one Person I would trust the Church to be built on is Jesus Christ. And I think there is always a danger in placing such authority on 'one' flawed man. If it is placed on several men, you have the checks there. And, do we not see this taking place in the book of Acts?

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Peter, James, and John were the inner core of the disciples. Only John was there at the foot of the cross. James became the leader of the Church at Jerusalem. Peter denied the Lord.

Stranger

So? John was at the foot of the cross, he was the youngest and was not afraid.
We can't really know why, it's all conjecture.

James became head of the church in Jerusalem.

Peter went all the way to Rome and it's accepted that he was the head of the church in Rome. Why does the fact that he denied Jesus bother you so much?
I don't feel so bothered by it.

Judas denied Jesus and hung himself. He never repented and made a big mistake.

Peter wanted to help Jesus when they came to arrest Him (the sanhedrin and the roman soldiers) in the Garden of Gethsemane and Jesus stopped him.

I always found John 21:18 to be very sad.

Jesus loved Peter very much.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The only one Person I would trust the Church to be built on is Jesus Christ. And I think there is always a danger in placing such authority on 'one' flawed man. If it is placed on several men, you have the checks there. And, do we not see this taking place in the book of Acts?

Stranger

The Bible refers to the “Law of Moses” (Mal. 4:4, Luke 24:44, Acts 13:39, 1 Cor. 9:9). Jesus even referred to the "Seat of Moses".

Do you have a problem with that??
Wasn’t it GOD’s Law?? Wasn't is GOD's Seat??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Peter, James, and John were the inner core of the disciples. Only John was there at the foot of the cross. James became the leader of the Church at Jerusalem. Peter denied the Lord.

Stranger

And Peter was the ONLY one that Jesus prayed for at the Last Supper when He told Peter that HE must strengthen his brothers (Luke 22:31-32).

Peter was the ONLY one that Jesus asked to feed His sheep and tend His flock (John 21:15:19).

Peter is the ONLY one who is called "FIRST" (Protos) among the Apostles - even though he was NOT the first chosen - and the list goes on . . .

 

[Stranger]

So? John was at the foot of the cross, he was the youngest and was not afraid.
We can't really know why, it's all conjecture.

James became head of the church in Jerusalem.

Peter went all the way to Rome and it's accepted that he was the head of the church in Rome. Why does the fact that he denied Jesus bother you so much?
I don't feel so bothered by it.

Judas denied Jesus and hung himself. He never repented and made a big mistake.

Peter wanted to help Jesus when they came to arrest Him (the sanhedrin and the roman soldiers) in the Garden of Gethsemane and Jesus stopped him.

I always found John 21:18 to be very sad.

Jesus loved Peter very much.

Understand sister, I am not saying Jesus did not love Peter. And I am not saying that Peter's heart was not in the right place. He most definitely loved Jesus Christ. Otherwise he would not have wept bitterly as He did. And Jesus knew it.

Even though John was there at the end, and Jesus gave responsibility of His mother to him, the Church was not built on John either. Just because James would be the head of the Church at Jerusalem, the Church was not built on him either.

I am saying I don't believe the Church is built on one man, Peter. If it had been built on one man, why not choose John or James?

Stanger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wait. On which false teaching....that PETER is the rock and not Jesus?
They know Jesus is the rock...
They do this because they want Peter to be the first "pope".

Uhhhhh, no - it's because Jesus CALLS him the "Rock".
It has nothing to do with "wanting" anything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Understand sister, I am not saying Jesus did not love Peter. And I am not saying that Peter's heart was not in the right place. He most definitely loved Jesus Christ. Otherwise he would not have wept bitterly as He did. And Jesus knew it.

Even though John was there at the end, and Jesus gave responsibility of His mother to him, the Church was not built on John either. Just because James would be the head of the Church at Jerusalem, the Church was not built on him either.

I am saying I don't believe the Church is built on one man, Peter. If it had been built on one man, why not choose John or James?

Stanger

Why would you question God's motives??

Why did God choose ANY of the losers and dummies in Scripture??
He did this because HE worked through them. It has nothing to do with THEIR abilities - and everything to do with HIM.