US Fulfillment of Rev.17:5 and Rev.18:2

[ewq1938]

The US is in a sorry spiritual state at this juncture of its short history. If it would have only taken 10 righteous men to save Sodom, then how many will it take to save the US? Perhaps it's too late to avoid the hammer drop.

Corrected:

The world is in a sorry spiritual state at this juncture of its short history. If it would have only taken 10 righteous men to save Sodom, then how many will it take to save the world? Perhaps it's too late to avoid the hammer drop.

 

[The Light]

I already posted the scriptures that disclose this view is wrong and I don't intend on posting them over and over. Good luck.

Let's deal with the facts. You think that the tribulation and the wrath of God are the same thing. Now that I have posted verses that prove they are not, you have no answers and want to put the few marbles you have left back in the bag and go home before you lose them all.
It's a common strategy for those that don't seek. They don't find.

 

[The Light]

Jesus is going to deal with those teaching false teachings as we move closer to the end.

Yes that is certainly a concern. There are five wise virgins that make themselves ready. They are watching for the soon coming of the bridegroom. They are watching so they will know the hour that He comes. They have rightly divided the Word of Truth. There are five foolish virgins that have no lamp oil and cannot see. They think that the bridegroom will delay His coming. Not a wise choice.

 

[jamesdalbright]

It's a question not a "reasoning". Your non-answer is interesting.

This isn't fourth grade. Don't ask a leading question, post what you have to say and support your view through the scriptures.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Let's deal with the facts.

You ignored the scriptures.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Yes that is certainly a concern. There are five wise virgins that make themselves ready. They are watching for the soon coming of the bridegroom. They are watching so they will know the hour that He comes. They have rightly divided the Word of Truth. There are five foolish virgins that have no lamp oil and cannot see. They think that the bridegroom will delay His coming. Not a wise choice.

You are wrong again. If you have believed and been baptized with the Holy Spirit the sin of spreading false teachings is forgiven. All sin is forgiven except blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Matt. 22:31 “ Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 “ And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Yes that is certainly a concern. There are five wise virgins that make themselves ready. They are watching for the soon coming of the bridegroom. They are watching so they will know the hour that He comes. They have rightly divided the Word of Truth. There are five foolish virgins that have no lamp oil and cannot see. They think that the bridegroom will delay His coming. Not a wise choice.

Matt 25:12 tells us the virgins without oil are unbelievers, since all sin is forgiven, including teaching false teachings. The point the entire body of Christ needs to be aware of is that all but a few of us believers will be asleep until just before the resurrection takes place, and the unsaved realize they need be saved and asked the believers how to get saved and the believers will tell them they have to believe on their own. All but a few believers are described as being asleep because the entire body of Christ is looking for Jesus to return in a way He is not going to.

Matt. 25:1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 “And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 “For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5 “Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6 “But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 “Then all those virgins rose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 “And the foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 “But the prudent answered, saying, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10 “And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11 “And later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘ Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12 “But he answered and said, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’

 

[The Light]

Matt 25:12 tells us the virgins without oil are unbelievers, since all sin is forgiven,

Matt. 25:1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 “And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 “For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5 “Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6 “But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 “Then all those virgins rose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 “And the foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 “But the prudent answered, saying, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10 “And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11 “And later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘ Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12 “But he answered and said, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’

This is kind of tricky. Why did the virgins go out to meet the bridegroom?

Additionally, their lamps had oil. What happened?

‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

 

[ewq1938]

This isn't fourth grade. Don't ask a leading question, post what you have to say and support your view through the scriptures.

This isn't fourth grade. Answer the question or don't post anything.

 

[jamesdalbright]

This is kind of tricky. Why did the virgins go out to meet the bridegroom?

Additionally, their lamps had oil. What happened?

‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

You ignored the basics. All sin is forgiven, including misreading the Bible. The fact that Jesus told the Virgins who ran out of oil He never knew them, tells us they never genuinely believed and therefore were never baptized with the Holy Spirit. If you look at the parable of the talents you will see that the person who was cast into outer darkness was also given a talent but in this person it did not mulitply. You can also see this by the fact that the talent that was given to the person who was cast into outer darkness was taken away from that person given to the persons in whom the talents multiplied. John 7:38 conversely states this when it points out that rivers of living waters continually flow from the genuine believer. In other words the Virgins who took oil with them were genuine believers and the Virgins who took no oil with them and ran out symbolizes unbelievers.
Matt. 25:24 “And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed. 25 ‘And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground; see, you have what is yours.’ 26 “But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow, and gather where I scattered no seed. 27 ‘Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28 ‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’ 29 “ For to everyone who has shall more be given, and he shall have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 “And cast out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
John 7:38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.’”

 

[The Light]

You ignored the basics.

I was thinking the same.

The fact that Jesus told the Virgins who ran out of oil He never knew them, tells us they never genuinely believed and therefore were never baptized with the Holy Spirit. If you look at the parable of the talents you will see that the person who was cast into outer darkness was also given a talent but in this person it did not mulitply.
the Virgins who took oil with them were genuine believers and the Virgins who took no oil with them and ran out symbolizes unbelievers.

Jesus does not say He never knew them. He says I know you not.

The virgins without oil, had oil in their lamps, but when the bridegroom finally came, they were unprepared. They were not watching, and they were not ready

 

[jamesdalbright]

Jesus does not say He never knew them. He says I know you not.

The virgins without oil, had oil in their lamps, but when the bridegroom finally came, they were unprepared. They were not watching, and they were not ready

When Jesus said He does not know them He is saying they never genuinely believed because when a person genuinely believes that person is baptized with the Holy Spirit, Who bears witness to the new believer that they belong to God. No one who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit will ever be told He does not know them. Disingenuous Christians don't have the Holy Spirit and will be told He does not know them.
Rev. 11:18 tells us that the reward intended for the unbelievers or dead will be taken from them and given to the genuine believers. These are those Virgins who won't take any oil with them and they will run out because they did not genuinely believe and will not be baptized with the Holy Spirit, Who will keeps the genuine believers from running out of oil.
Rev. 11:18 “And the nations were enraged, and Thy wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to Thy bond-servants the prophets and to the saints and to those who fear Thy name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[Timtofly]

No. At the 6th seal He is coming for the harvest of the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. They will be compensated as they will join the Church as the second bride for the marriage supper. Jacob had two brides. The fig tree has two harvests and there are also two harvests of the earth, a grain harvest and a fruit harvest.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The trumpets and thunders are Gods wrath. That said, I think I should have had more highlight on the day of vengeance as it is a day of vengeance and a year of recompense. The vengeance is a year long........the day is a year principle.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.


Jesus will not be on earth at the 6th seal. This is throwing you off. Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal. It is a harvest.... rapture. It is the second rapture for the seed of the woman. The Church is already in heaven as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood

Here is the harvest which a happens at the 6th seal. It is also the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Just going by God's Word. If a day is a year, then is the recompense only 365 years?

Revelation 14 is when the 7th Trumpet is over and the Millennium is about to start. There is no 42 months of AoD. How can the 7th Trumpet be the wrath of God? It is the victory celebration.

 

[The Light]

Just going by God's Word. If a day is a year, then is the recompense only 365 years?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

If a day is a year, then the Day of the Lord's vengeance is 365 days of recompense.

Revelation 14 is when the 7th Trumpet is over and the Millennium is about to start.

Revelation 14 occurs in the first 6 SEALS. The 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal, likely in the 1st seal, but we can prove it is before the 5th seal. Here is the 5th seal. It is the great tribulation

Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Jesus remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14, is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. Jesus is coming for a harvest. This is not the coming of Jesus at the end of the trumpets. At the end of the trumpets Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives. At the 6th seal, Jesus remains in the clouds.

There is no 42 months of AoD.

I know.

How can the 7th Trumpet be the wrath of God? It is the victory celebration.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There are trumpets of wrath. The 7th trumpet is the conclusion of wrath when Jesus comes to the earth and sets up His kingdom. Armageddon is over and the time of judgment is come.

 

[Timtofly]

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

If a day is a year, then the Day of the Lord's vengeance is 365 days of recompense.

Recompense is the total opposite of vengeance. You claim the day equals a year of vengeance. Then there is a year of days equal to a year per day of recompence.

At least be consistent in your interpretation, no?

Recompense: compensation or reward given for loss or harm suffered or effort made.

God rewards those who suffered after their enemies are destroyed. So if you say it takes God a year to get rid of the wicked, then the recompense is a year of years, 365 of them for the compensation.

Revelation 14 occurs in the first 6 SEALS. The 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal, likely in the 1st seal, but we can prove it is before the 5th seal. Here is the 5th seal. It is the great tribulation

Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

No, Revelation 14 occurs at the 7th Trumpet. The days of the 7th Trumpet is of celebration ending with the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh placed into the winepress of God's wrath. The 4 symbolic horses are not the winepress of God's wrath. They are not even the tribulation of the Trumpets. They are all accomplished before the last 3 Seals are even opened, and the first Trumpet has sounded. The Trumpets are not sounding during the opening of the 7 Seals. Not parallel events.


"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

How can the Trumpets be sounding before the first Seal is opened according to those verses?


The 5th Seal is not tribulation. Tribulation is not the action in the 5th Seal. Revelation 14 is not about those souls in the 5th Seal. Those in the 5th Seal are waiting in Paradise until the Trumpets and Thunders are over.

Here is the action of the 5th Seal:

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season."

That is the church being glorified at the Second Coming. That is the meeting in the air, where the entire church is glorified at the Second Coming. Then the church waits until the Trumpets and Thunders are over.

The last event they wait for is the winepress of God's wrath. It did not happen at the 5th Seal. They still have to wait a little season for Revelation 14.

Here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Jesus remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14, is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. Jesus is coming for a harvest. This is not the coming of Jesus at the end of the trumpets. At the end of the trumpets Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives. At the 6th seal, Jesus remains in the clouds.

Nope, a thousand days of no!

Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives in the 6th Seal. At the 7th Trumpet, Jesus is in the clouds with Judgment, not on the earth.

The elect are gathered at the 5th Seal, because they put on the robes of white in the 5th Seal. That is the church glorified in the air at the Second Coming.

Matthew 24:29-31 is Revelation 6.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The tribulation of those days are the first 4 Seals. The angels gathering the church is the 5th Seal. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Those on earth hiding do see God sitting on the GWT. They do see Jesus coming to the Mount of Olives, and rearranging the geography of the earth. They know the wrath is coming.

The GT is about to start in the Trumpets and Thunders.

2 Peter 3:10 just happened and the vengeance is about to happen along with the recompense given to the sheep.

All the works of earth were just burned up. That is a huge step of vengeance against Satan and the ungodly. That is still not the winepress. The sheep and tares have to be gathered now in the Trumpets and Thunders. Then those still alive after the 7th Trumpet starts sounding are placed in the winepress.

I know.

No one knows if the 42 months happen or not, except God. They will either be announced at the 7th Trumpet, or never happen at all. If they never happen, then there will never be an AoD per Matthew 24:15-20.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There are trumpets of wrath. The 7th trumpet is the conclusion of wrath when Jesus comes to the earth and sets up His kingdom. Armageddon is over and the time of judgment is come.

Is the 7th Seal wrath or silence?

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

Are the Trumpets the wrath of the Lamb? Goats being tossed into the LOF at the Judgment of Jesus on His Glorious throne per Matthew 25:31 sounds like the wrath of the Lamb. Jesus is cleaning house, while the Trumpets sound. Jesus is even sowing seed during the Trumpets. Matthew 13:37-38

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom;"

Jesus is physically on the earth talking to people. That is how the seed is sown.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

Jesus is that preacher during the Trumpets for the harvest of the Thunders.

 

[The Light]

Recompense is the total opposite of vengeance. You claim the day equals a year of vengeance. Then there is a year of days equal to a year per day of recompence.

At least be consistent in your interpretation, no?

I am consistent. "AND" is a conjunction. It is a day of vengeance AND a year of recompense. The timeframe is one year for both the vengeance of God and the time of Recompense.

Recompense: compensation or reward given for loss or harm suffered or effort made.

God rewards those who suffered after their enemies are destroyed. So if you say it takes God a year to get rid of the wicked,

I didn't say it takes a year to get rid of the wicked. I said the wrath of God is one year and THEN he returns

then the recompense is a year of years, 365 of them for the compensation.

The wrath of God lasts one year. His recompense lasts one year. It's probably 360 day, a prophetic year but no matter.
The Lord comes for the second harvest, the fruit harvest, at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins (after the silence in heaven). The Lord will return with his armies at one year later after the trumpets begin.

So there is a year of vengeance where the wrath of God is happening and then there is a year of recompense for the marriage supper. Same timeframe. One year.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

This is another reason that the wrath of God lasts one year. He stays with His bride for one year.

No, Revelation 14 occurs at the 7th Trumpet. The days of the 7th Trumpet is of celebration ending with the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh placed into the winepress of God's wrath. The 4 symbolic horses are not the winepress of God's wrath. They are not even the tribulation of the Trumpets. They are all accomplished before the last 3 Seals are even opened, and the first Trumpet has sounded. The Trumpets are not sounding during the opening of the 7 Seals. Not parallel events.

I'm not sure how you have dreamed this up. The seals are in order. They are not opened yet but will be soon. The first four seals are the beginning of sorrows of Matthew 24. The fifth seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the second harvest. The 7th seal is the wrath of God which occur in the 7 trumpets. Wrath is over and judgement happens at the 7th trumpet. Armageddon is over and Christ sets up His kingdom on earth.

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

How can the Trumpets be sounding before the first Seal is opened according to those verses?

What do you mean "before the 1st seal is opened"? We are talking about the 7th seal which is wrath. The seventh seal does not happen before the 1st six. The first 5 seals are the tribulation. The six seal is the coming of Jesus IN THE CLOUDS for the second harvest. Then Jesus returns with armies of heaven after 1 year and Armageddon occurs. Jesus is on earth and sets up His kingdom.

 

[The Light]

The 5th Seal is not tribulation. Tribulation is not the action in the 5th Seal. Revelation 14 is not about those souls in the 5th Seal. Those in the 5th Seal are waiting in Paradise until the Trumpets and Thunders are over.

No. Those souls in the 5th seal are waiting for wrath to begin. They want to be avenged. Here is the great tribulation which is the 5th seal in Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

That is why we see Jesus come at the 6th seal, BEFORE WRATH. He is coming for the harvest. Most of the people in this harvest will be dead already. But the days are cut short so there will be flesh that is saved.

Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Most people think this verse means that if the days are not cut short there would be no flesh alive in the world. That's not what it means. It means that if the days are not cut short there would be no flesh that would receive salvation at His coming. All believers would be killed and no flesh would receive salvation at the second harvest.

Here is the action of the 5th Seal:

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season."

That is the church being glorified at the Second Coming. That is the meeting in the air, where the entire church is glorified at the Second Coming. Then the church waits until the Trumpets and Thunders are over.

The last event they wait for is the winepress of God's wrath. It did not happen at the 5th Seal. They still have to wait a little season for Revelation 14.

The 1st 6 seals are over before the seventh seal of Gods wrath is opened. Somehow you have things out of order.

Nope, a thousand days of no!

Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives in the 6th Seal.

That's what most think and it is totally and completely wrong. Jesus comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal. It is MARKED by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is absolutely cut and dried and yet most miss what is right front of their face as they pay no attention to the markers provided.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus returns at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds. There is a harvest. THEN THE SEVENTH SEAL IS OPENED and the trumpets of wrath will begin after the silence in heaven.

NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation Jesus comes. That means the tribulation of the first 5 seals is OVER. Then the wrath of God can begin.

If you have TRIBULATION and WRATH in the same time frame you have an error and need to make a change. I don't care how times preachers say tribulation and wrath are the same thing, the Word of God says differently.

At the 7th Trumpet, Jesus is in the clouds with Judgment, not on the earth.

Jesus returns to earth at the 7th trumpet. THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD. Armageddon is over. Jesus sets up His kingdom and it is the time of Judgement.

The elect are gathered at the 5th Seal, because they put on the robes of white in the 5th Seal. That is the church glorified in the air at the Second Coming.

The Church is already in heaven before the seals are opened. That means the dead in Christ are already in heaven. Those souls under the altar are the people that are killed during the tribulation. They are waiting for vengeance. They are told to wait longer until the great tribulation is over. Then they will receive the year of vengenance and recompense they are asking for.

Matthew 24:29-31 is Revelation 6.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The tribulation of those days are the first 4 Seals. The angels gathering the church is the 5th Seal.

No. The tribulation of the those days is the 1st 5 seals with the 5th seal being the great tribulation.

The Second Coming is the 6th Seal.

It is the second coming when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. However, it is not the second advent when Jesus returns to the earth.

Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Those on earth hiding do see God sitting on the GWT.

No they see Him in clouds at the 6th seal. It is not the time of the GWT. It is the time of wrath beginning.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

They do see Jesus coming to the Mount of Olives, and rearranging the geography of the earth. They know the wrath is coming.

They know wrath is coming when they see Jesus in the clouds. He sends His angels for the second harvest at the last trump. Yes wrath is coming and will come when the 7th seal is opened and the trumpet of wrath begin.

The GT is about to start in the Trumpets and Thunders.

Do you not understand the TRIBULATION IS OVER at the 6th seal.

IMMEDIATLEY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.........Cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars........THEN wrath begins when the 7th seal is opened and the first trumpet sounds.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[The Light]

2 Peter 3:10 just happened and the vengeance is about to happen along with the recompense given to the sheep.

All the works of earth were just burned up. That is a huge step of vengeance against Satan and the ungodly. That is still not the winepress. The sheep and tares have to be gathered now in the Trumpets and Thunders. Then those still alive after the 7th Trumpet starts sounding are placed in the winepress.

Use simple logic. If the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, the winepress is over and Armageddon has happened.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The story is over. Christ has set up His kingdom. Revelation reads like Genesis 7. In Genesis 7 you are given 3 views of Noah loading the animals and 3 views of the flood. In Revelation you are given 2 views of the seals which is the tribulation and 2 views of the wrath of God.

No one knows if the 42 months happen or not, except God. They will either be announced at the 7th Trumpet, or never happen at all. If they never happen, then there will never be an AoD per Matthew 24:15-20.

You have this twisted up. It is Biblical fact that the 42 months will happen. The days being cut short have nothing to do with the 42 months.

Is the 7th Seal wrath or silence?

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

The 7th seal is opened and then there is silence in heaven. THEN the trumpets of wrath begin.

Are the Trumpets the wrath of the Lamb? Goats being tossed into the LOF at the Judgment of Jesus on His Glorious throne per Matthew 25:31 sounds like the wrath of the Lamb. Jesus is cleaning house, while the Trumpets sound. Jesus is even sowing seed during the Trumpets. Matthew 13:37-38

The wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb is the same thing. The reason that some present them as different is because they don't understand that the tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins.

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom;"

Jesus is physically on the earth talking to people. That is how the seed is sown.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

Jesus is that preacher during the Trumpets for the harvest of the Thunders.

There is no harvest in the trumpets. The trumpets are the wrath of God. The second harvest occurs at the 6th seal. The first harvest occurs before the seals are opened.

The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. The alive that remain is the Wheat harvest. They do not happen at the same times. The barley and wheat are the grain harvest. The sixth seal is the fruit harvest. That is why the grapes are cast into the winepress of wrath.