(Called 2 Conquer;43530)
C2C- Ok I get that now. God doesn't have gaps. Just because its not obvious to you doesn't mean the info isn't there. Also, some info truely isn't there and for good reason. God wants us to believe without having to sit down to dinner with you and answer all your questions, He keeps some things secret like definative proof that He created everything. Why, I don't know for sure but I have a theory. I think God keeps somethings a mystery so that we will seek Him all the more. Even if God knocked on your door and asked you to meet Him at the Olive Garden for dinner to answer all your questions you know what? You still wouldn't be convinced. I wouldn't and I am very strong in my faith. I would think it a joke or be scared of insulting Him or not knowing what to ask. Even if He answered all my questions then you know what? I would think of more. So should God have to take time to come to me each time I don't get something? I don't think so and if you are honest with yourself, you don't think so either.
Of course, I cannot say for sure either way if I would get "something" from it. But if God really was there for me to see then I could know he existed. Whether or not I then believed in him would depend on the conversation I guess.Why should you be afraid to offend him? Or not know what to ask? If God truly is loving, understanding and all knowing - then he would know of your intentions - so why be afraid. I would personally ask and talk away anyway, if he took offence to my questions and seeking answers, seeking him, seeking to be a good person - then frankly he's probably not the kind of God I'd want to believe in/follow.As for the God of Gaps thing - it's not about what's not obvious to me. It's about when people don't have an answer or can't explain something - "God did it". If you can explain HOW this is God and prove it to me, then fine. It just annoys me when it comes to something they or we can't explain and immediately it's "God did it".
C2C- What would you like for proof? I dinner date with Jesus, a note writen in Jesus own hand, a letter from Adam and Eve, a phone call from heaven? Hey, how about this, God can take you the same way He took John for the Revelation account and show you everything like some tour of history? What would it take? More importantly, if you received any or all of those, would you believe it? No, probably not. Proof doesn't answer spiritual questions. You say you have prayed and I believe you. Have you just shut up and listened? Not with your ears, thought they can help, not with your heart, thought it can help, not with your noisy soul but with your connection with God via the person of the Holy Spirit? Have you ever learned how to listen that way?
I'm going to let the tone of anger I hear slide, I think we probably both understand each other better by now but in answer to that reem of questions - I can't tell you specifically what it would take - but it would have to be something that is unmistakably God, that can't be explained by something else. If God is real then, surely he is unique.I stopped praying weeks ago, decided to listen since I'd prayed enough. Nothing. Although actually I did pray with someone the other day - not for myself but for a family in distress.
C2C- Yes you need to ask questions. More importantly, you need to ask the right questions. Most of what you ask is, to be honest, superfical. Surface issues. I wish I could tell you what questions to ask but I can't. I am no longer in your place in faith. I may not have ever been in exaclty your situation. What I know for sure and I have said this before is you need to ask God. He will answer but you have to listen. I recommend Talking to Him when you first wake up. Slip out of bed and to your knees and say, "Lord, your servant is listening". You must believe you truely are His servant and be willing to do what He says when you do finally hear Him. It will likely take at least 2 weeks for you to make a connection though it could take longer. I know it worked for me and I know many others it has worked for.
See above about praying.As for questions - how can you say I'm not asking the right questions when you don't know what the right questions are?I do know some of these things are just "oh explain this event to me" but if I have a question, I'm doing to ask it - it may not be the big question that leads to me believing and maybe it leads in the other direction after I get the answer but if I didn't ask I wouldn't have known.
C2C- Yes you do. Search your soul and you will find it. I search for God yet require Him to prove Himself. Satan did that in the book of Job. Satan tried to get Jesus to test God and that didn't work either. You are in fact doing the same thing. What most of your questions amount to is, God, prove it to me. Why should I believe your written Word? Who are you to set the rules for me? and the worse offenders I have seen: How dare you allow my ancestors sin to be passed on to me? Who are you to judge me? I know you probably don't see it that way so I ask the other Christians to read all your questions thus far on this thread and then comment on whether you agree, disagree or think I am right but too harsh.
Everyone tests God, every time someone asks for something in prayer they're testing God. This I learnt from a Christian.There's nothing wrong with asking God to prove he's real to you, what you think people are doing when they ask him to come into their lives?Worst offending questions you've seen? Sure from your prospective maybe but still it was a question I had so I asked it. Now I understand that in your opinion this is to do with hereditary things like you explained - so not all types of sin are passed on and judged on. If I hadn't asked the question then I'd still be none the wiser, of course I still make up my own mind and look at this as your prospective, etc but don't be grudge me trying to understand.
C2C- First, about the trash, mom would say, because I said so and at that point any further questions would be questioning her authority. As to the bridge, why do people insist on using that tired example. God isn't even remotely asking you to jump off a bridge but to believe the truth when you read it or in the event of an answered prayer, hear it, feel it or see it. Not only was your example extreme it was also invalid to the point. God isn't commanding you to do something stupid that could hurt or even kill you but to do something smart that will save and heal you. big difference.
It's not invalid to the point, it wasn't suggest God does actually ask people to jump off a bridge. It was to prove that people don't do things without questioning them - even questioning authority.Even God's authority should be open for questioning, I don't want to be slave or robot who doesn't question - you shouldn't either.
C2C- Just because the request was simple doesn't mean it was coincedence when it was answered. Was there a bird there before the person asked God? When did it arrive? Why did it sing out at that precise moment? Did it stay after doing that? Did it keep singing? Remember I told you God is in the little things too.
I don't know all the details. But to me this isn't unmistakably God. This is a bird that's hungry, looking for a mate, etc.
C2C- Ok I get that now. God doesn't have gaps. Just because its not obvious to you doesn't mean the info isn't there. Also, some info truely isn't there and for good reason. God wants us to believe without having to sit down to dinner with you and answer all your questions, He keeps some things secret like definative proof that He created everything. Why, I don't know for sure but I have a theory. I think God keeps somethings a mystery so that we will seek Him all the more. Even if God knocked on your door and asked you to meet Him at the Olive Garden for dinner to answer all your questions you know what? You still wouldn't be convinced. I wouldn't and I am very strong in my faith. I would think it a joke or be scared of insulting Him or not knowing what to ask. Even if He answered all my questions then you know what? I would think of more. So should God have to take time to come to me each time I don't get something? I don't think so and if you are honest with yourself, you don't think so either.
Of course, I cannot say for sure either way if I would get "something" from it. But if God really was there for me to see then I could know he existed. Whether or not I then believed in him would depend on the conversation I guess.Why should you be afraid to offend him? Or not know what to ask? If God truly is loving, understanding and all knowing - then he would know of your intentions - so why be afraid. I would personally ask and talk away anyway, if he took offence to my questions and seeking answers, seeking him, seeking to be a good person - then frankly he's probably not the kind of God I'd want to believe in/follow.As for the God of Gaps thing - it's not about what's not obvious to me. It's about when people don't have an answer or can't explain something - "God did it". If you can explain HOW this is God and prove it to me, then fine. It just annoys me when it comes to something they or we can't explain and immediately it's "God did it".
C2C- What would you like for proof? I dinner date with Jesus, a note writen in Jesus own hand, a letter from Adam and Eve, a phone call from heaven? Hey, how about this, God can take you the same way He took John for the Revelation account and show you everything like some tour of history? What would it take? More importantly, if you received any or all of those, would you believe it? No, probably not. Proof doesn't answer spiritual questions. You say you have prayed and I believe you. Have you just shut up and listened? Not with your ears, thought they can help, not with your heart, thought it can help, not with your noisy soul but with your connection with God via the person of the Holy Spirit? Have you ever learned how to listen that way?
I'm going to let the tone of anger I hear slide, I think we probably both understand each other better by now but in answer to that reem of questions - I can't tell you specifically what it would take - but it would have to be something that is unmistakably God, that can't be explained by something else. If God is real then, surely he is unique.I stopped praying weeks ago, decided to listen since I'd prayed enough. Nothing. Although actually I did pray with someone the other day - not for myself but for a family in distress.
C2C- Yes you need to ask questions. More importantly, you need to ask the right questions. Most of what you ask is, to be honest, superfical. Surface issues. I wish I could tell you what questions to ask but I can't. I am no longer in your place in faith. I may not have ever been in exaclty your situation. What I know for sure and I have said this before is you need to ask God. He will answer but you have to listen. I recommend Talking to Him when you first wake up. Slip out of bed and to your knees and say, "Lord, your servant is listening". You must believe you truely are His servant and be willing to do what He says when you do finally hear Him. It will likely take at least 2 weeks for you to make a connection though it could take longer. I know it worked for me and I know many others it has worked for.
See above about praying.As for questions - how can you say I'm not asking the right questions when you don't know what the right questions are?I do know some of these things are just "oh explain this event to me" but if I have a question, I'm doing to ask it - it may not be the big question that leads to me believing and maybe it leads in the other direction after I get the answer but if I didn't ask I wouldn't have known.
C2C- Yes you do. Search your soul and you will find it. I search for God yet require Him to prove Himself. Satan did that in the book of Job. Satan tried to get Jesus to test God and that didn't work either. You are in fact doing the same thing. What most of your questions amount to is, God, prove it to me. Why should I believe your written Word? Who are you to set the rules for me? and the worse offenders I have seen: How dare you allow my ancestors sin to be passed on to me? Who are you to judge me? I know you probably don't see it that way so I ask the other Christians to read all your questions thus far on this thread and then comment on whether you agree, disagree or think I am right but too harsh.
Everyone tests God, every time someone asks for something in prayer they're testing God. This I learnt from a Christian.There's nothing wrong with asking God to prove he's real to you, what you think people are doing when they ask him to come into their lives?Worst offending questions you've seen? Sure from your prospective maybe but still it was a question I had so I asked it. Now I understand that in your opinion this is to do with hereditary things like you explained - so not all types of sin are passed on and judged on. If I hadn't asked the question then I'd still be none the wiser, of course I still make up my own mind and look at this as your prospective, etc but don't be grudge me trying to understand.
C2C- First, about the trash, mom would say, because I said so and at that point any further questions would be questioning her authority. As to the bridge, why do people insist on using that tired example. God isn't even remotely asking you to jump off a bridge but to believe the truth when you read it or in the event of an answered prayer, hear it, feel it or see it. Not only was your example extreme it was also invalid to the point. God isn't commanding you to do something stupid that could hurt or even kill you but to do something smart that will save and heal you. big difference.
It's not invalid to the point, it wasn't suggest God does actually ask people to jump off a bridge. It was to prove that people don't do things without questioning them - even questioning authority.Even God's authority should be open for questioning, I don't want to be slave or robot who doesn't question - you shouldn't either.
C2C- Just because the request was simple doesn't mean it was coincedence when it was answered. Was there a bird there before the person asked God? When did it arrive? Why did it sing out at that precise moment? Did it stay after doing that? Did it keep singing? Remember I told you God is in the little things too.
I don't know all the details. But to me this isn't unmistakably God. This is a bird that's hungry, looking for a mate, etc.