Walking in the Spirit

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GracePeace

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Whether visible of invisible, I believe this describes our relationship with Jesus.

When we are that focused on Him, our intention is to remain with Him in that way. And then God . . . @Nancy said something,



I like that!

Much love!
The odd thing was that I had given up on "trying" to please God, and I had decided to just get married, pay my bills, and go to hell when I die, because I couldn't figure out the Bible and I was so frustrated and angry. I wasn't focusing on God at all. I started thinking about God, but I was like "No, I'm not going to think about God, because God didn't bless my efforts before, so if God wants to bless me it has to be ALL God because I'm not going to waste my time. I'm not mad at God, I just haven't been blessed while trying to seek God that way." I don't recommend that line of thinking, I'd just been through a lot. This was like 15 years ago. That was when God appeared to me as my righteousness, and downloaded all these answers into my mind in a split second (the answers to the questions I couldn't find--and a lot of answers to questions I hadn't even asked).
 
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GracePeace

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It is mysterious how to make this my reality always.
It is also mysterious how I could become more holy without any thinking about it, only by Jesus drawing near to me. Like He is doing something to me that affects me inside of me--my thoughts and everything. It is mysterious.
 
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marks

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It is also mysterious how I could become more holy without any thinking about it, only by Jesus drawing near to me. Like He is doing something to me that affects me inside of me--my thoughts and everything. It is mysterious.
Personally, I believe the new creation is in fact righteous, and without sin, and cannot sin. Sin is in the flesh.

I can only speak from my own experience. What I've concluded in something God did with me was that He had caused my flesh to completely rest, allowing me uninterrupted walking in the Spirit for a certain time. I think that's our natural state as children of God, but unless God gives this sort of gift, we come into it by faith, and it can take us some time to realize this is truly available for us.

I'm not saying seeing visions necessarily, but the effect of a right relationship with God, walking in holiness.

Much love!
 
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GracePeace

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Personally, I believe the new creation is in fact righteous, and without sin, and cannot sin. Sin is in the flesh.

I can only speak from my own experience. What I've concluded in something God did with me was that He had caused my flesh to completely rest, allowing me uninterrupted walking in the Spirit for a certain time. I think that's our natural state as children of God, but unless God gives this sort of gift, we come into it by faith, and it can take us some time to realize this is truly available for us.

I'm not saying seeing visions necessarily, but the effect of a right relationship with God, walking in holiness.

Much love!
Well, in Romans 7, Paul defines "sin" as "slavery", but "slavery" of what? "Slavery" of the spirit.

"I delight in the law of God after my inner man, but I see another law in my [flesh] taking me captive"--"sin" captures the "spirit" ("inner man") and forces it to do the will of the flesh. The spirit doesn't necessarily want to do those things, but it gets forced to do them anyway, and that's why it's "slavery" (a "slave" does not do as he wishes, and he would prefer to go free). In other words, it can't technically be correct to say that our spirit doesn't sin, because there is no such thing as "sin" that is not "spiritual slavery"--"sin", by definition, is what the spirit does (is forced into doing).

I can appreciate how viewing yourself as "innocent" as a result of believing you can't sin might be helpful though.

I engaged in a lot of discussions in the intervening time, and I think Judges 7:2 is key in understanding this : God will not save if we are going to attribute His salvation to ourselves. I think that's why He was able to do all those things that one time--I wasn't trying.
 
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marks

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Well, in Romans 7, Paul defines "sin" as "slavery", but "slavery" of what? "Slavery" of the spirit.

"I delight in the law of God after my inner man, but I see another law in my [flesh] taking me captive"--"sin" captures the "spirit" ("inner man") and forces it to do the will of the flesh. The spirit doesn't necessarily want to do those things, but it gets forced to do them anyway, and that's why it's "slavery" (a "slave" does not do as he wishes, and he would prefer to go free). In other words, it can't technically be correct to say that our spirit doesn't sin, because there is no such thing as "sin" that is not "spiritual slavery"--"sin", by definition, is what the spirit does (is forced into doing).

I can appreciate how viewing yourself as "innocent" as a result of believing you can't sin might be helpful though.
I look at this also in terms of what John wrote, That which is born of God sins not, like that.

And Paul, who said, it is no me I, but sin that lives in me.

It's not so much seeing myself as Innocent, but this is my understanding of justification, which is to be rendered innocent. Not a perception or declaration, but a reality.

Much love!
 
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GracePeace

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I look at this also in terms of what John wrote, That which is born of God sins not, like that.

And Paul, who said, it is no me I, but sin that lives in me.

It's not so much seeing myself as Innocent, but this is my understanding of justification, which is to be rendered innocent. Not a perception or declaration, but a reality.

Much love!
1a) LOL Yeah, the same John said "if we confess our sins God is faithful and righteous to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness" so in order to prove God's righteousness we have to confess our sins. Clearly, then, we sin. When John says "the one born of God does not sin" the Greek I'm pretty sure I've read means "does not go on sinning". Yes, instead of going on sinning, we go "from glory to glory as we behold Him with unveiled face" 2 Corinthians 3. It's a different direction.
1b) Still, according to Romans 7, there is no "sin" that exists that is not "spiritual slavery", so any sin that is committed is a spirit being forced to do something.

2) Romans 7 (where he says "If I hate what I do, I agree with the Law, therefore it is not I but sin in me") was Paul PRIOR to Christ. Why do I say that? Romans 7:5 "while we were in the flesh", but Romans 8:9 says "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of Christ lives in you". Who is the "we" in Romans 7:5? Other Jewish Christians. Romans 7:1 says he is addressing "brothers (for I speak to those who know the Law)"--and he had already stipulated that "Gentiles... do not have the Law" Romans 2:14 (in the ancient world, most people were illiterate, and Gentiles would have been marked out as people who did not know the Law--whereas in today's world, most any Gentile could decide to access that knowledge). So, he is speaking to other Jews about their lives prior to the Grace of Christ. "Sin will not be your master because you are not under Law but under Grace." Yet that is precisely what is being depicted in Romans 7 : sin is "mastering" them, and it is because they are under Law. "...the strength of sin is the Law." 1 Corinthians 15:56. "The Law came in that the trespass might abound." So, Romans 7 is about life prior to faith in Christ, it does not describe the life of grace. Remember also it says "I am taken captive" in Romans 7, but in Romans 8 it says "the Law of life in Christ has set me free from the Law of sin and death [in the flesh]". Also, the man in Romans 7 is conquered by "covetousness", but Paul warns "no covetous man has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God"... so, again, this is not a Christian. And again Paul in Romans 7 says "the good I will to do [the Law] I cannot do because evil lies close at hand" but in Romans 8:4 he says "we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law".

3) I understand and affirm justification by faith... but what do you do with Romans 14:23 where "you are condemned" (condemnation and justification being opposing verdicts which the Judge may issue) if you sin?
 

marks

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When John says "the one born of God does not sin" the Greek I'm pretty sure I've read means "does not go on sinning".

upload_2021-5-5_16-55-41.png

"sin not is doing", present tense active voice singular, sin.

1a) LOL Yeah, the same John said "if we confess our sins God is faithful and righteous to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness" so in order to prove God's righteousness we have to confess our sins.

And then He cleanses us. Do we remain cleansed?

1b) Still, according to Romans 7, there is no "sin" that exists that is not "spiritual slavery", so any sin that is committed is a spirit being forced to do something.

I imagine you mean whether before or after being reborn. Hmm.

What does it mean to be reborn? What happens?

Much love!
 

Wynona

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I do have to try to when it comes to resisting temptation.

It's by God's grace that I have the will to even do this. But for me, the temptation to walk in the flesh is very strong at times and it is an effort to stay in the Spirit.

There is porn at our fingertips 24/7 through the internet. You can private message just about anybody you want as well. The devil tries to attack me with this often and it does involve effort to resist.

There are times when Im simply too focused on God to fall in to sin. But Im not sure why being taught that its a bad thing to try, if for no other reason than how much it brings you back to how much we need God's help and the Holy Spirit to live lives pleasing to the Lord.
 

GracePeace

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I do have to try to when it comes to resisting temptation.

It's by God's grace that I have the will to even do this. But for me, the temptation to walk in the flesh is very strong at times and it is an effort to stay in the Spirit.

There is porn at our fingertips 24/7 through the internet. You can private message just about anybody you want as well. The devil tries to attack me with this often and it does involve effort to resist.

There are times when Im simply too focused on God to fall in to sin. But Im not sure why being taught that its a bad thing to try, if for no other reason than how much it brings you back to how much we need God's help and the Holy Spirit to live lives pleasing to the Lord.
You know, I haven't watched porn for years and I'm on the computer constantly. I don't fight it... because I never get a thought about it. How? I have grace through faith that mortifies the flesh. God saves me in that respect daily. By grace through faith.

The reason people would be averse to "trying" would be because God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble, and His activity is regulated, in a sense, by whether you are going to take credit for it or not Judges 7:2.
 
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GracePeace

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I do have to try to when it comes to resisting temptation.

It's by God's grace that I have the will to even do this. But for me, the temptation to walk in the flesh is very strong at times and it is an effort to stay in the Spirit.

There is porn at our fingertips 24/7 through the internet. You can private message just about anybody you want as well. The devil tries to attack me with this often and it does involve effort to resist.

There are times when Im simply too focused on God to fall in to sin. But Im not sure why being taught that its a bad thing to try, if for no other reason than how much it brings you back to how much we need God's help and the Holy Spirit to live lives pleasing to the Lord.
Well, I don't want to discourage you from resisting temptation--what ever method we use should yield results is all I'm saying. If I had to resist watching porn all of the time, I wouldn't count that as "grace through faith" victory. The victory I enjoy is effortless thank God. Again, keep resisting, but remember the passage says "submit yourselves to God, resist the devil and he will flee". Has the devil fled? Why are you stuck resisting? Maybe because you haven't submitted to God? What does it mean to submit to God? Grace through faith. "Obedience of faith". Don't get things out of order : FIRST submit, THEN you can resist, THEN he will flee ("until a more opportune time").
 
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MatthewG

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Walking in the spirit

That is always a good thing to do

If you make the choice in reacting by the spirit than reacting by the flesh

You are learning, that you may allow the Lord Jesus Christ spirit to live with you and help you in your life by the spirit of God/holy spirit/spirit of Christ with-in you which you as a believer live by faith in believing (Galatians 2:20).

Spiritual maturity is the same thing as growing up from a child into a mature adult.

And growing up takes times, and sometimes people are slower than others, and some are faster than others in their learning and experiences and at the end of the day all people in which we all are, are bleed the same, and experience many different things in life from birth.

Birth -> Flesh - our body - and its thoughts/mind/will/heart/choices - soul ~ /spirit of Man.

-> Born again by the spirit -> Christ with-in us -> our minds/thoughts/will/hearts/choices - soul ~ by the spirit of Christ is renewed, by belief/faith/trust/confidence in God, and the Lord Jesus Christ becoming a new creation who is justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and can live in peace with God knowing this.

Believers are given the spirit, and the bible to learn about God and Jesus Christ and to find encouragement, and to increase a believers faith and trust in God and the Lord Jesus Christ. ~ The spirit will produce in a believers life fruits of love. (Galatians 5 - 1 Corinthians 13)

There is a lot that comes with the Christian faith, and that means even suffering for Christ as well. My encouragement would be to keep learning about Lord Jesus Christ, and may God give the increase.
 
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GracePeace

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I do have to try to when it comes to resisting temptation.

It's by God's grace that I have the will to even do this. But for me, the temptation to walk in the flesh is very strong at times and it is an effort to stay in the Spirit.

There is porn at our fingertips 24/7 through the internet. You can private message just about anybody you want as well. The devil tries to attack me with this often and it does involve effort to resist.

There are times when Im simply too focused on God to fall in to sin. But Im not sure why being taught that its a bad thing to try, if for no other reason than how much it brings you back to how much we need God's help and the Holy Spirit to live lives pleasing to the Lord.

Consider this : can a robot abstain from watching porn? Sure. Does the robot benefit from not watching? No. He has no capacity for relationship to God.
Now, can a Jew abstain from watching porn? Sure. Does that mean the Jew will enter God's Kingdom? No. He has no relationship with God.
So, it's not just an issue of the work itself (watching or not watching), though obviously we must resist temptation and practice righteousness, but, even more importantly, it is the method whereby our lives of righteousness are produced. We are "not under Law but under Grace", so that Paul says "What I am I am by the grace of God and I was abundant in good deeds above them all yet not I but the grace with me." The righteousness is a signpost leading to God... meaning it must emanate from God. It seems there may be varying levels of this (perhaps corresponding to "30, 60, 100 fold"?), because resisting sin for God's sake comes from God, but I would never want to live always fighting temptation to watch porn. "The knowledge of the glory of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the seas". If God is not our righteousness (as it says Jesus, the King, will be named "God is Our Righteousness" Jeremiah 23:6) we are misleading people.
 
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GracePeace

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Is it offensive to say a Jew does not know God and will not inherit God's Kingdom? Why else would Paul be so sad for the Jews, his brothers, even wishing he could be accursed and cut off from Christ if it could save his brothers (as Moses also said of himself), if they weren't lost and under God's wrath ("severity" Romans 11:22)?

Romans 9
1I speak the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as confirmed by my conscience in the Holy Spirit. 2I have deep sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the law, the temple worship, and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise!a Amen.
 
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GracePeace

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View attachment 14622

"sin not is doing", present tense active voice singular, sin.



And then He cleanses us. Do we remain cleansed?



I imagine you mean whether before or after being reborn. Hmm.

What does it mean to be reborn? What happens?

Much love!

1) Regarding the translation of the verses from 1 John : from CARM :
15214_2e0c47a3bb0e25998107f973cf1ea1ed.png


2) Does a branch only need to receive sap from the Vine once or does it need it constantly? He cleanses us when we sin. Even John the Apostle sinned and it is recorded in the Book of Revelation. He bowed down to worship a creature Revelation 22:8-9. You and I are not anywhere near his level of love and righteousness.

3) The nature of "sin" doesn't change after being reborn--it's still "spiritual slavery". The body cannot act on its own. Try removing the spirit from the body. What can the body do then? Nothing. It turns back into dust. It is inanimate. What happens with sin is that the body abuses the spirit, forcing the spirit to animate the body in the way that the body wants so that the body can fulfill its appetites, meanwhile the spirit wants to be noble.
 
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GracePeace

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I engaged in a lot of discussions in the intervening time, and I think Judges 7:2 is key in understanding this : God will not save if we are going to attribute His salvation to ourselves. I think that's why He was able to do all those things that one time--I wasn't trying.
This explains, in part, why God chose Abraham's family--He says "you were the smallest". With the smallest family, what God would do through them would be attributable to no one other than God.

This principle also explains why "not many noble, not many wise, not many mighty" are called by the Lord : they are looking at themselves, praising themselves, and so they would attribute to themselves (their class and wealth, their intellect, their strength), and not to God, God's saving acts.

It explains a lot.

Now if only we could put this principle to work in terms of sanctification--living "God Is Our Righteousness" to the fullest.
 
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Gary Urban

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I would offer walking by faith represents understanding the things not seen .It is used in various parable to show the work of the Gospel like in Acts 14. Many misunderstood and thought its primary focus or goal was to literally walk .Physical healing is not the goal of the gospel.

Feet with walking are also used to represent the gospel. In that way how beautiful are the feet shod with the gospel. Jesus said if he does not wash our feet we have no part with him or no understanding coming from the gospel.

Acts 14:7-12 And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

leaping with walking is also used as a metaphor to show the work of the gospel


It is first used as a metaphor in Genesis 3 with the serpent representing the glorious beauty of creation before the fall when .The legs were removed from the creature to show we are not to seek the understanding of Lucifer .

Genisis 3; 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

A couple more examples to show how the word walk is used

Matthew 15:31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Samuel 6:16And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.

2 Samuel 22:30 For by thee I have run through a troop: by my God have I leaped over a wall.
 

Wynona

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You know, I haven't watched porn for years and I'm on the computer constantly. I don't fight it... because I never get a thought about it. How? I have grace through faith that mortifies the flesh. God saves me in that respect daily. By grace through faith.

The reason people would be averse to "trying" would be because God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble, and His activity is regulated, in a sense, by whether you are going to take credit for it or not Judges 7:2.

I am sincerely glad the thought and temptation never enters your mind.

However, this has not been my or my husband's experience. I think God gives us grace to overcome these temptations but you do have to submit fully to God. I don't believe its always effortless.

That is to say, if you are not tempted by any sin at all, praise God. I just know I am and trying to "rest in grace" when temptation comes has not worked for me.

Of course the credit goes to God. I would not even desire to resist sin without His presence in my life.
 
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marks

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Try removing the spirit from the body. What can the body do then? Nothing. It turns back into dust. It is inanimate. What happens with sin is that the body abuses the spirit, forcing the spirit to animate the body in the way that the body wants so that the body can fulfill its appetites, meanwhile the spirit wants to be noble.

I stand corrected on the KG present tense, and I'll need to review some of my books. Yes, present tense is the now present, now, and now, and now.

But let me ask you . . . what does that mean? Does it mean, you sin beginning now, and sin non-stop? That you commit a sin today, another tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, like that? What are your thoughts on that?

I don't believe the Flesh can force the spirit to do anything. I don't find that the "Old man" ceases to exist when we are reborn. We're told to "put off the old man" because it's something new need to do at times.

I think we have rather different ideas about what it means to be reborn.

I also look at Paul in Romans 7, So it is no more I, but sin that lives in me.

Much love!
 
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